Just came into an older "1972" Winchester mod 70 super grade in .458 win. Mag (like new). I have zero experience with this round but have heard all the stories. I have only been to Africa once and used my .416 Rem mag that fared well at dispatching a Cape Buff and a Croc. Used a .300 WM for some smaller plains game. In any event I'm hooked and I am going back next year to try for an Elephant, got a pretty good deal on a cancellation ($24K). In any event, my guide seems to favor the .458 Win mag (using solids) over the .416 Rem. Your opinion please:......

in terms of recoil, not much difference from a 416 rem vs 458 win ... it may be tough to get 2150 from factory ammo, though

I have a .416Rem and a .458Lott. Both are great rifles and calibers. When hunting Ele and given the choice, it should be your .458WM, without question.

well it depends on are you a handloader or not if yes then the 458 win with a good 500 loaded to 2130-2150 if not id lean towards then 416 400 at 2400 in factory load hard to beat and its easier to come by then a good 458 winchester factory load

If you hand load your own or have some custom loads made for you, it should be easy enough to get 2150+fps out of the 458 win. mag.

I have never used any of the Hornady Factory loaded ammo (DGS, solids) but I hear of guys that are getting very good results out of Hornady's 458 win. mag. ammo. on DG, including Elephant.

With my hand loads I would use the 458 win. mag. without reservation! With today's powders and bullets it is more than enough...

I got my first .416 Rigby before they were readily available. It was sexy as he'll, while the .458 win mag was a not so cool tipoff of the .470NE. I took my .416 Rigby to Africa on my second trip and learned it killed way better than a .375 H&H. Later I built a nice .458 win
Mag for a trip to OZ and it did just as well! I still think the .416 Rigby is sexier though! A .416 Rigby in a M98 like the originals is stilly dream rifle for Africa! give me that and a .470NE double and in heaven!-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Express_Rifles:
well it depends on are you a handloader or not if yes then the 458 win with a good 500 loaded to 2130-2150 if not id lean towards then 416 400 at 2400 in factory load hard to beat and its easier to come by then a good 458 winchester factory load

I do load my own ammo. I have studied some charts and agree with some of the other posts here that the 458 with solids would be a better choice than the 416 Rem. Appreciate the advice from all. I'll start working up some loads for my new 458 toy.

No one has mentioned the PF factor yet? AR members must need more coffee lol.

You have 2 good rifles, take both! Always good to have a capable back up.

No one has mentioned the PF factor yet? AR members must need more coffee lol.



Ok its a pushfeed no biggie if it works it works crf vs of old arguement and both have their supporters

The 416 works but the 458 WM would be better but only if you get it up to 2150 fps with 500 gr. bullets.

If you start downloading it or use lighter bullets you might as well stay with the 416's.

Sell the PF and get a CRF.

For "the what it's worth department" when Harry Selby decided to replace the most famous 416 Rigby of all time he replaced it with a PF M-70 .458 Win.

,....out of interest, was that PF .458win left or right handed?
Harry was LH, his trusty.416 rigby mauser and rifle of choice for 50yrs,was RH configuration.

I believe the photos I have seen show it as a RH rifle. Most folks who shoot left handed all their life with a RH rifle usually end up prefering a rifle that they are comfortable with. Alaskan guide Joe Want is another who shoots off his left side yet prefers RH rifles because they are what he is familiar with. And under stress we all revert to muscle memory.

Not sure the "must handload" caveat still applies to the 458WM. I have a stash of Speer African solids factory load which along with the new Hornady Superperformance easily exceed 2100 fps out of a 24" tube with 500 gr. pills.

quote:

Sell the PF and get a CRF.

Dennis Olson did an absolutely wonderful job converting my PF Model 70 to CRF. All told, it cost $460 and took two weeks shy of two years to get it back but it works slick. I also had him open the ejection pert and had him do feedrail work. It was originally a .300 WinMag and I rebarreled it to .404 Jeffrey. Mainly, the reason I didn't purchase CRF action when he told me he wouldn't work on PF action, I was intrigued when he said he could convert it to CRF. It was a great job and looks just like an original Win CRF action.

The new Hornady DGS in .458 Win Mag seem to have very good dangerous game performance albeit limited to one elephant and a buffalo. BTW, they chrono'ed as advertised or 2140 f.p.s., making them the equal to the old .450 N.E. I've never had any extraction problems, even in 95 degree heat.

I think the .458 factory ammo "problem" is solved, IMHO.

quote:

Originally posted by JoeR:
Not sure the "must handload" caveat still applies to the 458WM. I have a stash of Speer African solids factory load which along with the new Hornady Superperformance easily exceed 2100 fps out of a 24" tube with 500 gr. pills.

My chrono results with the 458WM (Hornady Super performance) come close to what Judge G stated. I think the ammo is pretty good stuff. The 458 Lott loadings (Hornady Heavy Magnum; 500 gr) posted 2276 across my sky screens out of a 23" tube. Goes to show their ammo is pretty consistant with their literature.

quote:

Originally posted by WhatThe:

quote:

Originally posted by Express_Rifles:
well it depends on are you a handloader or not if yes then the 458 win with a good 500 loaded to 2130-2150 if not id lean towards then 416 400 at 2400 in factory load hard to beat and its easier to come by then a good 458 winchester factory load

I do load my own ammo. I have studied some charts and agree with some of the other posts here that the 458 with solids would be a better choice than the 416 Rem. Appreciate the advice from all. I'll start working up some loads for my new 458 toy.

Besides brass, and LR mag primers...only 2 other things you need to make that rifle a good ele killer...some AA-2230 and some 450 gr North Fork FPS bullets. Pretty easy to get ~2250 and they WILL shoot. For ele...you won't find a bullet to perform any better!

I'm having this one (in 458Win) built up for Ele hunting.
The sights are set with loads firing 480grn Woodleigh FMJ bullets at 2150fps (similar to that of the 450NE).

I would go with the 458 for your hunt. I have used the 416 (Rigby) on DG with good results on buff and leopard. Made a good shot with it on a lioness though, centered near scapula, deflected through neck, exited muscle of off shoulder. She was still quite mobile next morning when we finally tracked her for the kill! kinda think the same shot with the 458WM would have put her down. 416 is a great and proven round, but far from a death ray IMHO.

The most important factor is what your PH says. If he prefers the .458, then take the .458. It will make him more confident in you - deserved or not - and you both will enjoy the hunt more. For goodness sakes, you're giving him $24K and you don't want to take his advice?


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