I want to build a 45 calibre on a Ruger #1 and am looking at something like the .45 - 110 or 120 or a 458 Lott but have no experience with either. Any suggestions?

There is no need to build one as Ruger is chambering the Ruger No 1 in 458 Lott. You can always rechamber it to something bigger later on if desired. Good luck.

I want a heavy rifle with a longer barrel than comes on factory models. I'm thinking 12 pounds is about right, and I'm sure my four wheeler won't mind the extra weight. Do you have any experience with the 45 - 110 or 120 or the Lott. I want the extra weight on the rifle to ease the recoil.

I got a factory No 1 in 458 Lott. It weighs about 9 pounds with a heavy barrel. The muzzle diameter of the barrel is around .810 in and it is a muzzle heavy rifle now so I am not sure if I like the barrel to be any heavier. Two mercury tubes can be added to the butt stock to add another lb to the rifle. With a heavy scope setup, it will probably have another lb or so. By that time it should be in the 11 lb range and should have pretty of mass to handle that sissy 458 Lott or 45-110. I don't see the need for a 12 pound rifle to handle the 45 calibers you are longing for. Good luck.

Mingo, could you give me a little clearer understanding of the words sissy when talking about the 458 Lott or 45 - 110? Its a serious question. I don't want to have a rifle that recoils to heavily to use confidently. I have no problem with my 375 H&H in a factory #1.

Nimrod - I think Mingo is trying to semi-politely tell you that if you are so afraid of recoil that you need to turn this rifle into a boat anchor before you have the nerve to shoot it...maybe you shouldn't do it.

Anyone with any hunting experience knows what a JOY it is to carry around a 12 lb rifle all day.

Nimrod2,
IMHO, I think a 458lott or a 45-110,120 in a 12lb. rifle is for a sissy. You planing to build this rifle for your daughter or something? Be a man. Go with a 50 BMG and put that in a 12 pound rifle. It might hurt a little, but suck it up. You will be better for it.

Quad hunter = sissy

yours truly

Thanks Pecos. I happen to be a long time Yukoner and we're not like whoever this wannabe is. Just don't want to be painted with the same brush. On the other hand it could be a friend of mine jerking my chain.

Nimrod,
The recoil of the Lott is really not all that terrible. I had the good fortune to shoot one the other day and its not as bad as my 416 Rigby. Its not a sharp crack, more of a stout push. The tank of a rifle that you intend to build is really going to be far to heavy to be practical.

I just read my Pet Loads by Waters on the 458 RCBS which is less that the Lott and he was shooting a 11 lb rolling block with a 31" barrel. He seemed to think that it shouldn't be lighter. I don't carry my rifle all day. I have other rifles that are lighter if I need one. Judging by the feedback I'm getting I could easily build something a little lighter and recoil shouldn't be a problem. What rifle were you shooting in the 458 Lott? How heavy, how long was the barrel?
I was thinking of the 45 - 110 or 120, but the brass and dies for the Lott are cheaper and easier to get, so I started to look at the 458 Lott. I'm considering a long (maybe 30"+ octagon) barrel. I already have a Ruger #1 in 300 Wby with a heavy 28" barrel and have had great results with it. I want something similar in a 45 cal.

I think a lott or .416 rigby should be about 10 to 10 1/2 pounds and then it is at a practical weight for carrying around. Put a good stock & pad and you will not even notice recoil when shooting game. When sighting in just use a standing bench method, heaps better than trying to sit in behind these buggers. The bonnet of my land cruiser with a wheat bag on top makes the ideal height for sighting in my big bores. The recoil will be fine you will love it

Nimrod,

My Lott weighs 10lbs 15oz with the scope, rings, sling, and a 13oz mercury recoil reducer in the stock. It is a Winchester Custom Shop Lott with a 24" barrel. My loads average 2300 fps with the various 500 gr bullets that I shoot.

My recent Africa trip, I stalked a herd of Buffaloes nearly 3 miles and ended up sprinting after one with this rifle. At the time, I had 9 rounds in or on that rifle. It would weigh in at about 11 3/4lbs. I ended up firing all 9 shots at that Buffalo. Didn't notice one of the shots at all.

IMHO I don't feel this is because of the weight. When shooting at game, I never notice the recoil. I feel that recoil reduction is best served only for the bench and practice. This is very important because you don't want to develop a flinch. The weight of the rifle is better suited to steady your shot at game and for balance. Originally, I added the recoil reducer to my Lott for recoil reduction. But it ended up balancing my rifle like a nice sporting clays shotgun. My friend Ray Atkinson doesn't like them because they unbalance the rifle for him. He must have longer arms than I do and his balance point is further forward.

My son has a Winchester Custom Compact 7-08. With the scope, rings, sling, and 13oz recoil reducer it weighs exactly 9lbs. It is one sweet shooting and handling little rifle. He is 11 years old and 90lbs. Not once has he ever mentioned the weight of the rifle as we hike.

Rifle weight and recoil is one of the most subjective discussions we can have. Everyone has different preferences. Personally, I like weight in my rifles and good balance. Your results may vary.

Anybody that tells you the 458 Lott does not kick is just full of prunes. It will kick the be-jesus out of you...

I can shoot big bores with anybody but the Lott and up just plain kick like hell and to say otherwise brings doubt to my mind as to the auththenticity of the poster....

Can you handle it, perhaps but I would sure try one first...I have chosen to stay with the 416 and 404 myself because I hunt with mine and I might have to take a shot at something nasty in a precarious position, and I prefer not to have to pull my thumb out of my nose after the shot, at a time like that. In other words it is one thing to stand out at the range, brace your feet and take an off hand shot, but another to poke it under a log or over a bluff and take a shot squatted or prone..

Guess I'm a sissy by some of the tougher individuals standards around here...I can't help that, and I sure do shoot well with my p-shooters.

The other thing that comes to mind is why one would need/want a Lott in Alaska, bear are soft creatures and don't warrant solids and a soft from a 40 caliber, 400 gr. bullet at 2400 to 2600 FPS is more than enough under any circumstances..

The rifle I shot was a Ruger #1 tropical, opened up from 458 winnie to 458 Lott. Weight was around 10 lbs. Barrel was around 24 inches. The recoil was again, NOT THAT BAD.

Nimrod,have no experince with the Lott but have with the 110,and the 120.Believe me there is a reason the rifles are built heavy,Pop over to the black powder thread and ask the guys,in lite riles 10lbs and down the 110 and 120 will stomp the snot out of you in the heavy loads.My 110's weight is at 11lbs,the 120 is at 14lbs,and thats loaded with iron sights,I have used the 120 for pigs and bears with no problem but its a bitch to carry long. Just as an example{not to be used unlless you work it up in yours}
My 120 load is 112 grains FFg behind a 715 grain hard lead bullet.

Dave,
Sent you a PM,concerning those 715s...

Brian.

I have not fired the lott, but I own a .416 Rigby & a .585 Nyati. If I can shoot a .416 & a .585 you will be fine with the lott. The .416 was my first big bore.

I repeat again try the standing bench technique !!

There not that Bad !!

Ray I always post authentically

Well, I guess the guys around here are pussies.
Local smith retired, used to work for Remmington,
roughly 70k out of a 1911, etc. He doesn't like rifles that recoil.Why? Getting old. Second shot is slower, with heavier recoil.

A 458 Lott is a very SERIOUS rifle. About twice the ft-lbs of energy of a 375 H&H. Load it to about 60K, and we see who gets up first, the buffalo or you.

DO EVERYTHING YOU CAN TO REDUCE RECOIL.

Guy around here, another pussy, has a 416 WEATHERBY. Mercury reducers, muzzle Brake, biggest kickeze he could buy. Says it recoils like a 300 mag, and he took it to Africa, along with his 454 Casull.

Killed a Cape Buffalo at 110 yards with the Casull, with a 360 grain bullet, at about 1600 fps. I'd like to see all those big shemen around here fire that pistol, and hit a wall with that load.

By the way, the 416 WBY does everything that the 416 H&H does, but better, and with less drop.

If you shemen really want to prove your manhood, try taking on a 235 pound heavyweight boxer, who's 35-0, and take a couple shots from him.

Or better yet, the world heavyweight karate champion, and let him bust your rib, and hit you so hard you couldn't remember people's names you had known for years, for a couple weeks. Better yet, let him hit you in the kidneys or heart, to feel real pain.

Or, get out Big Bore's 2 bore, load it up with 500 grains of powder, and a 3500 grain ball, and pull the trigger. it's only 400 something foot pounds of recoil...

Suffice to say, anything that allows you to limit the recoil, or injury that you WILL sustain from repeated beatings from a heavy rifle is a wise choice.

Common problems are separated shoulders, broken collar bones, detached retina's, memory loss, etc.

Actually, my favorite for recoil is just hand the guy a 500 Linebaugh MAXIMUM, and let him pull the trigger, with a 485 grain 50 caliber slug, out of a revolver, at 1500 fps.
Broken fingers, bloody foreheads, etc.

I guess my point is use every trick you can to keep the recoil down.

Robgunbuilder is good at this. He has a BMG rifle that he shoots that looks like it recoils like a 223, at least from the videos...
s

[ 11-05-2002, 05:25: Message edited by: Socrates ]

"Common problems are separated shoulders, broken collar bones, detached retina's, memory loss, etc."

Socrates,

You don't know anythi......what were we talking about?

Where does all the crap about being a he-man or she-man to shoot a big bore come from. They can be very controllable to shoot. With good stock design, a good recoil surface area (pad area) and a good recoil pad such as the Pachmayer triple Magnum pad a 500 grain bullet at 2300 fps can be very easy to shoot. Pushed to 2500 fps it is still very controllable to shoot. If you are any kind of a seasoned rifleman a gun of this nature would never hurt you. I weigh 175 lbs and I'm just your average guy with an interest in big bores. For me the 500 A-Square shooting a 600 grain bullet at 2400 without a muzzle brake is about where I reach my tolerence level for repetative shooting. I don't think shooting a 500 grain bullet at 2300 fps is any kind of a feat that deserves special recognition that you must be special or your out to prove your manhood. RAY you confuse the hell out me with posts of how you don't feel recoil and have a hard leather shoulder and would rather shoot with no pad and then put up a post saying that the Lott will kick the hell out of you and you stay to the 416 or the 404. Am I reading your posts incorrectly.

Nimrod 2 just get the Ruger #1 in 458 Lott change the recoil pad, load it to 458 Winchester ballistics and then work up. You will have a rifle with reasonable weight that is usable. Go to my site and look through the recoil videos. They are with a 500 grain bullet at 2500 fps. That is the first time that Chris Stagg ever tried to rapid fire his 470 Mbogo. I think that he did great. That is with 90 plus ft lbs of recoil.

Take care,
470 Mbogo

Nimrod2,

Seriously, I am sensitive to recoil too but those 45-calibers you mention do not have the type of recoil of other big bores such as the 460 Weatherby and the 500 A-Square. I think a good recoil pad would be more effective than adding 3 more pounds of mass to the rifle. With that said, there is nothing wrong to have a 12-pound rifle but for me I would get tired from holding and shooting a heavy rifle long before I get hurt from the recoil. Good luck and keep us posted.

Trust me nimrod, you can handle it. I weight 140lbs on a good day soaking wet. These guys here telling you that the recoil is bad are nuts.
Its nothing more than a stout push. Go for it.

I shot Longbob's before the mercury thing, and it was pretty controllable (I hit the paper) but what it really needed was a good thick foam pad on the butt. And maybe a skeet jacket with a thick pad. And a thick shirt.

It would be shootable out of the right pistol configuration, IMO. I'm thinking something like a ported XP with a padded grip.

Size and toughness have NOTHING to do with handling recoil.

I once watch a 5 foot tall,80 pound woman shoot a 6 pound,unbraked 458 Winchester.It weighted 6 pounds because she was beyond daintly and couldn't pack much more weight than that.The rifle was loaded to the hilt with 500s.She thought it was FUN to shoot and was quite the shot with it.

On the other hand,I have a good friend who's roughly the size of Big Foot,and probibly stronger to boot.He thinks his heavy 270 Weatherby kicks too hard.

Recoil is whatever you make it out to be.Some folks can handel it,some can't.I can take it all day shooting offhand,but put me on a bench with my 458 and I'll cry uncle after 15 rounds or so.

Brian.

I'm beginning to feel really good about my ability to stand up to recoil listening to some of you guys.

[ 11-05-2002, 10:28: Message edited by: CZ 550 ]

Thanks for all your comments and your help. Now all I have to do is find a #1 action and decide on the final design.

I hope the Lott project works out. I've shot a couple of different .458 Lott's and they have kicked me pretty well. I'm a pretty sturdy guy, and I knew I had touched off something big. That being said, nothing I own hurts worse than my NEF 12 ga. Single-shot with 2oz. Magnum turkey loads. The .45-70 Guide Gun with max loads isn't too pleasant either. Both of these are a function of gun weight and stock design, which I know that you are addressing appropriately in your Lott project.

Best of luck with it.

Joel Slate
Slate & Associates, LLC
www.slatesafaris.com

7mm Rem Mag Page www.slatesafaris.com/7mm.htm

470 Mbogo,
You misquoted me and misread me....I said my shoulder is like leather, but my cheek is tender, and I dislike muzle jump and blast...

I also said about anyone can stand on their hindlegs and shoot any big bore, I know I can and they don't bother me..BUT when I have to lay over a bluff and shoot down, squat and shoot under the Jesse, shoot prone, in general take such horrible positions to take the shot, then the 458 Lott and larger normally feeds me my thumb in the nose and the scope in the eye...

I suppose from reading this thread that some do most of their shooting of big bores at the range or hunt differently than I do, and are able to stand up and shoot all their buff much the same as they do at the range...I, on the other hand have had some exciting experiences shooting big big guns in the field in awkard positions, the mere thought of some of those positions makes one flinchable.

If you can shoot your big bore from a prone position and other positions then certainly you should shoot as big a gun as you can handle. Few can shoot them off the bench much less in the field.

I want no rifle that I cannot shoot a 5 shot group off the bench or one that requires my 100% concentration not to flinch...

It has been my experience that a some hunters show up in Safari camp, quoting balistics and loads and flinching like hell ever time they pull the trigger...and I know these are normally good riflemen, they are simply over gunned and will not admit it.

Thats the point I trying to make. Nimrod admits he has no experience and you want him to start shooting a 458 Lott, I don't agree with that..I simply think he should try one first.

It pains me to admit this , because Ray is right too often for his ego's good as it is , but being the proud owner of a beautiful, well fitting, 10-pound rifle in .458 Lott, I am having a second switch barrel made for it in .416 Remington. Yes I can shoot the Lott, and have 8 trophies with 10 shots, at ranges up to a measured 243 yards to proove it. Shooting off-hand the Lott is not bad, and I can carry a 10-pound rifle for the day. However, what Ray said about shooting in wierd positions, with little time is very difficult to do well with the Lott, because recovery is tough between shots, and because it does have significant recoil. Will I still hunt with it as a Lott when I have a .416 barrel? Not as much, though I am hunting elk with it this weekend.

Shoot one before you buy to see if you can, and then carefully consider why you are buying one before you do.

Brain,send you a reply,
I think the reason the old rolling blocks kick so much is there stock design,if you could stock it like the modern big bores more than likely it wouldn't be so bad.

[ 11-05-2002, 23:06: Message edited by: Dave James ]

I'll give Atkinson's post a big AMEN. All of the big 45 caliber rifles that I have shot seem like SHOVERS. They don't so much kick you as violently SHOVE you. This isn't too hard to take as long as your body is free to easily MOVE WITH THE SHOVE. But if you are in a funky position where your body can't yield to that recoil...then is when the big ones will hurt you.

And as Ray suggests, if you can't shoot a gun without flinching...get the hell rid of it and get one you can.

I'll always believe a well placed bullet is worth a 1,000ft. lb. of energy anyway. Who is shooting the biggest and badest rifle has never remotely interested or impressed me. (Or the critters)

I agree with the "weird position" thing. I took a shot at a fast moving hopper with my .416 Rigby loaded with 410 gr woodleigh's @ 2600 fps and the bugger got past the window pillar, naturally I screw my body around and out the window to get the shot off and thus the gun and me were screwed around like a game of twister. I actually flooked a hit, but god did I pay for it that night, I needed 4 panadol. It was just that I was in bad position and I let it get a little bit of a run upp as I could not tuck it in nicely. The shot when it smacked the hopper through the hips however was ver devastating, he did not go nay were.

[ 11-06-2002, 00:00: Message edited by: PC ]

I'm glad some of the linguistically challenged haven't put you off your quest for getting some good and positive feedback on pro's and con's of a big 45. I had a poorly assembled 458 lott P-14 that weighed right around 9#'s, and when my buddy had it re-stocked in plastic, it came in at 8 1/4#'s. The gun was not unshootable, but, it wasn't comfortable to shoot. With full patch 500 gr loads, you had to make an extra mental effort before squezing off a round. I never flinched, or was hurt by the gun, but honestly admit, it takes more concentration to fire a heavy recoiling rifle.

The replacement rifle I'm having made will be on a mauser 98 action, and barreled with a Ruger #1 458 take off, that should come in at 23". I want this rifle to be 10-11#'s.

I am always puzzled by folks that design their guns so that they are pleasant to carry, but in the process, compromise the shootability of the gun. I don't think a 458 lott needs to be 12#'s, but there is certainly no reason not to build one that heavy, as it will be more pleasant to shoot. It is your gun, so build it the way you want it.

The best thing about the lott is a handloader can load it from mild, to wild. Load a 350 gr over 76-80 gr RL 7 for 2400-2500 fps, and it'll feel like you are shooting your 375 H&H. Load a 500 gr over 76 gr RL 15, and you'll know you're firing a big gun.

With factory dies and easily formed inexspensive brass, the 458 lott is the more economical choice. Then again, in a falling block, it cries out for a rimmed case.

Dave,recived your message,and responded.

HI Ray,
I respect your view but remember that Nimrod 2 wants to build a big bore and this was my reply.
"Nimrod 2 just get the Ruger #1 in 458 Lott change the recoil pad, load it to 458 Winchester ballistics and then work up. You will have a rifle with reasonable weight that is usable."

I think that is a pretty sensible suggestion. I know you don't like recoil pads but to most shooters the triple magnum pad will make a huge difference. I haven't found anyone that has found my rifles objectionable to shoot and usually they can't believe how easy it is to shoot at the 2300 fps velocity. Maybe one day you'll get curious enough to try one and then you'll know. Then again maybe maybe not but the difference is huge and is the basis of my suggestion to Nimrod 2.
Take care
470 Mbogo

470 Mbogo,
I don't disagree with your post at all an I have used those pads on Customers guns..don't be mislead I do have recoil pads on 458's and up and like I said I like them to stand guns in the corner so they don't slip...I just said I don't require them on a 404, 416 and below...On those I have Silvers pads but they are as hard as rock, but they leather cover very nicely...I love a Bieson or Niedner steel butt, they are so pretty and they do not bother my leather shoulder, only my bursitas later that day....my cheek is tender, I hate muzzle blast directed straight back and muzzle jump...

Your suggestions to Nimrod are positive and have much merit.