Agreeable topic:
My .500 Jeffery (Mauser 98+Lothar Walther) is about to be baptised - i.e. text engraved on the barrel/reciever. Alf has graciousely informed me that the original Jefferys didn´t have any cal markings other than .500 2.76 " FLAKE 116.1 - 535 grs bullet.

Tomorrow I will have to decide. I was thinking something like:
" .500 JEFFERY NITRO EXPRESS
- SIGHTED FOR 535 GRS BULLET / 102.5 GRS VVN140 NITRO-CELLULOSE POWD.-"

Or should it be .500 JEFFERY RIMLESS NITRO EXPRESS or perhaps .500 RIMLESS NITRO EXPRESS. Kynoch calls the 404 Rimless Nitro Express but the .500 is Jeffery Nitro Express...

What do you think, good gentlemen and gracious ladies? Should I drop the "nitro-cellulose powd." altogether? Seems rather nice to have the load engraved on the rifle, and I don´t want to copy the text of an original Jeffery.


Boha

500 jeffe / 535 grs / 102.4 vvn140

It's a bolt-action rifle - you don't need to put its sight-in load.

" .500 JEFFERY NITRO EXPRESS"

would be enough.

George

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
It's a bolt-action rifle - you don't need to put its sight-in load.

" .500 JEFFERY NITRO EXPRESS"

would be enough.

George

You have a point of course, however we sighted it with a file for 535 grs at 2300 fps, so it´s fixed sights only, no scope.

Boha

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I like ALF's. Keep it simple:

".500 Jeffery"

-Bob F.

Hopefully that is what Scrollcutter is going to put across the top of my rifles. . . "404 Jeffery"

Classic!

.

ALF makes an excellent and important point about the inscription matching the ammo designation! Good advice.

-Bob F.

I'd reccomend:

".500 Jeffery / 535 gr. / 2400fps"

boha
I would put "500 JEFFERY" on the barrel near the action.
If I wanted to put the load info on the barrel I would put it either behind or in front of the rear sight, in a single line on top of the barrel.

Great advice! The rifle will travel and I hope to tag along. So simpler is better.

The Kynoch info had me confused.


According to the Magnum magazine-article on Fletcher Jamiesons 500 Jeffery, no ammo was ever loaded in Britain, and the boxes of ammo were actually marked "500 Schüler Gecado". My reloading dies are 12,7x70 Schüler, Horneber brass is .500 Jeffery.

So the sensible thing to engrave would be simply ".500 Jeffery"?

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If your brass has 500 Jeffery on it and that the is brass you plan to use...put .500 Jeffery on the barrel. The brass aught to match the caliber inscription on the barrel and vice versa.

Also, I personally think it's cool to have the sight regulated load engraved on the barrel too. But that's just my opine.

The way to go is obviousely to have the same text on the barrel as on the brass. This is probably for the best.

Alf, I got my dies from CH4D and ordered them to the Schüler dimensions, as the Lothar-Walther barrel was so designated. This turned out to be just right, reloading is working fine.

But the magazine is Jeffery style staggered, no Schüler magazine.

I´m hanging in here. Keep that info coming.

Boha, soon to have a sore shoulder

quote:

Originally posted by boha:

You have a point of course, however we sighted it with a file for 535 grs at 2300 fps, so it´s fixed sights only, no scope.

Boha

Ah, I didn't know that; in that case, go with what the brass is stamped, with the regulation load below it.

George

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This would probably be the case, Alf.

But why did the British makers use other dimensions, if all used .500 Schüler ammunition anyway? Just to be - well - British?

I am not going to stamp 12,7x70 Schüler or Jumbo on it, though, as the brass is stamped .500 Jeffery, although the credit for inventing this fine round must go to Mr Schüler.
The chance of my getting hold of an original .500 Jeffery is pretty slim in my country, and if I did I could not afford it, so there is no risk I will have any mix up with the brass, so therefore my rifle will be a .500 Jeffery. The main thing is that the brass works in it and that I can reload it. And it sounds less Jumbo...

This, as Lothar-Walther probably controls the barrel market in Germany, would make all the German built modern .500 jefferys 12,7 Schüler then, wouldn´t it? And they market them as 500 Jefferys. Heym, Ritterbusch, Johannsen etc.

Are the South African Sabis and other true British dimensioned .500 Jefferys?

Go figure.



Boha

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Alf,

I know you have done extensive research on these chamberings, much to the benefit of the shooting world. Have you been able to determin if Schuler produced the original 500 Jeffrey's under contract to Jeffrey, and if so, which chambering did they use? Did they also produce a 12.7X70 Schuler, and if so, did it's chamber have different dimensions than the 500 Jeffrey?

Thanks!

Very interesting, Alf. Thank you.

A quick look at the unused Horneber cases show them to be more Schüler than "Jeffery" although they are stamped .500 Jeffery.

Boha

quote:

Originally posted by boha:
A quick look at the unused Horneber cases show them to be more Schüler than "Jeffery" although they are stamped .500 Jeffery.

Lothar Walther barrels, Triebel reamers, Triebel reloading dies, Horneber brass, german rifles (Johannsen, Ritterbusch, Prechtl etc.) and Romey ammunition all measures as 12.7 x 70 Schüler.
I think for better marketing they sell it mainly as .500 jeffery, what gives normally no problems to the customer.

Thanks to ALF's great research on this matter and exellent drawings, we can see that mixing the two cartridges would make serious headspace problems. How big is this problem today?
If one ordered reamers, die-sets and brass from different companies, could one be sure to recieve the right stuff, or could one end up with mixed components?

I think that USA die makers may make jeffery and europe makers makes schuler dimensions. I was really confused when trying to find out what to order for my project. I went so far in my confusion that I decided to go for a 500 A2 instead. (Well mostly because I was to cheap to buy the Triebel dies )

As someone said, if you buy the reamers and dies from the same maker you will not have any problems and I guess that brass will fit the chamber after a full lengt sizing and fireforming once wether it's jeffery or schuler stamped. Don't know if ther will be any headspacing issues for the first fireing though.

The engraving is ordered and under work. Thanks all, and especially Alf for all the information.
Top of barrel close to reciever: .500 JEFFERY
Right side of barrel close to reciever and stock: .500 2,76" - 12,7x70. (because both .500 Jeffery and 12,7x70 will chamber)
on top of barrel in front of rear sight:
Sighted for 535 grs bullet - 102.5 grs VVN140

Hidden under the barrel provenience Specially built for...By...

All compromises because of the limited fonts available and their size.

But by God what a beautiful piece of hardware! And it feeds slicker than snot, as Atkinson would have put it.. I´ll post pictures when it´s ready.

About the dies; Dave Davison at CH4D in the US, who has given me the best service, made sure of the correct calibre before shipping any dies. So I got the 12,7 dies. Perfect quality at half of Triebels prices.

Boha