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I have a Mark x action originaly in 458 WM. I would like to build it into a big bore. I am looking for a claiber to build. Here are my criteria: Must fit in the standard length action. Must be adeuquate for DG. Must be able to get correctly headstamped brass. (cost is not as much of an issue as I just don't want to fart with forming/refoming cases) Must be bigger than 40 cal. Must have reasonable recoil. (I am just a beginner) What are my options? Is there brass being made for Jeffe's AR rounds? I could always go back to the 458 WM but was thinking .416. Maybe a 416 Taylor? Will it fit? I just started this big bore craze last year with a Whitworth in 375 H&H and now I have to feed the addiction. | ||
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I would turn it into a 458AR, Just a rechamber job. I believe that corret HS brass is coming. (ask jeffe) You can start with reduced loads in the 458AR, and build up your tolerance to heavier recoil. Also, you can shoot the cheap Remmy 405gr bullets for practice rounds. The more the merrier. Hog Killer ps: If you are truely set on a 416, then go with the AR. It can easily beat the 416Rem. IGNORE YOUR RIGHTS AND THEY'LL GO AWAY!!! ------------------------------------ We Band of Bubbas & STC Hunting Club, The Whomper Club | |||
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The .416 Taylor meets all your criteria. It is a special and efficient package. I got my brass from Quality Cartridge, and necked down Remington .458 WinMag brass matches the QualCart brass to a "T." Now, at my jaded rifle looney point in life, I am thinking of a .404 Dakota on a stainless Ruger M77MkII, by rebarreling a 7mmRemMag. Guess it will have to be 7.0 lbs bare weight with a 22" or 23" barrel just to outdo Will's flyweight .416 Taylor elephant basher.  Then there is the 45/.404 Dakota to duplicate the 450 Vincent Short, if only I can solve the headstamp issue. The .458 AR would be a straightforward rechamber and magazine/feed rework. If it will feed with that rebated rim, that is.  | |||
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416 Rigby Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Yup, RIP nailed it! This also has the distinction of a very simple conversion to the 416 Ruger when it happens to comealong......and it will! Factory ammo...plenty of power...and fit in your action! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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If 'ya all think the .416 Taylor is a good one (which I do, too)...you'd love the .416 Newton (my borrowed idea). Its very close, a tad bigger volume without a belt. I'll get the same as the .416 Taylor's performance, maybe a bit more. Its simply the .35 Newton case (or .30 Newton case necked up to .416). Marc jamison is on the road to make new Newton brass... Best Regards, Tom | |||
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404 Jeffery ............ .423 bullet , stamped brass , fits into a standerd 98 no problem !!!! | |||
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458 lott. You can make a 300 yard elk rifle out of it with 400 grain pointed bullets. A 404 Jeffery on a model 98 requires a new magazine box of the correct geometry or the feeding will not be correct. | |||
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To start, build the rifle to fit you, and leave it in 458 winmag.. easiest path. Have it CHAMBERED for the lott, which will allow you to seat bullets WAY out. then, in a year, when you are done with the winmag, rechamber to 458 AR, minimal (if any) feeding work, and outrun the lott. jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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If I were entertaining ideas of such a project at this time the 404 Dakota or the 416 Taylor would probably grab most of my attention. The new 375 Ruger that is supposed to be introduced in Spring 2007 sure seems like it could be necked up to the desired caliber and be great option for these parameters as well. A 416 or 423 Ruger sure seems like it would be a winner. The Ruger case would get the nod from me if there isnt any urgency to start this rifle immediatly. | |||
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RIP... I built a 416 Rigby on a TC Encore frame. Synthetic, thumbhole stock, 20" barrel. TEETH JARRING MOTHER!!! I'm shooting 1.5 inch groups at 200 yds. TC Custom shop knows their business. Took an Oryx in september... through & through, no deformation with Nosler Custom Ammo. Bet it doesn't weigh 5 or 6 pounds. It's a trip! So we shall flow a river forth to Thee, and teeming with souls shall it ever be. In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. | |||
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nmpyro, A 5 pound .416 Rigby wins the boobie prize for sure. That would be a sure cure for boredom. I will not try to beat that. | |||
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458 Win. Mag. | |||
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458wm. No need for more than that. Try to get it to feed North Fork's Flat Nosed solids as well as their Cup Points, along with their softs or Woodleigh, Swift's...and you will have a great rifle for the big stuff. The penetration of the 450gr North Forks on elephants is phenominal on both brain shots and body shots and you give nothing away on stopping or knock down effect compared to the 500gr Woodleighs in my experience. JPK  Free 500grains | |||
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I just posed this question to another fan of the 416 Taylor. Exactly what will the Taylor do that the 458 will not? The Taylor must be reloaded and if you do they both shoot the same weight bullets at the same velocity plus the 458 can use heavier 500 grain bullets for real stopping power and offers cheap factory brass and factory ammo that is avaliable from Anchorage to Zimbabwe. Since the purpose of both is for use on large, dangerous game, Guess what my vote is? Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Elcabellero, give me a hollar and I'll tell you all about those things I did to my .458 Win mag. It only cost me about $60 dollars to have it recambered to the .458 Lott and that is plenty for what you want to accomplish in caliber, energy and bullet weight. TONK | |||
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 You do not have to rechamber a .458 WinMag to .458 Lott to make it shoot like a .458 Lott. Finn Aagaard told me so. The standard .458 WinMag has a long funnel of a throat that is wide at the base and is just a leade that tapers down to the lands at about the same distance from the bolt face as a .458 Lott chamber does. You can load a .458 WinMag with a long monometal bullet to about 3.75" COL and it will chamber in the .458 WinMag. A .458 WinMag with 450 grain soft or solid North Fork, GSC, or Barnes bullets loaded to 2250 fps in standard 3.34" COL is tops. Swift A-Frames are great too, in 450 and 500gr. I cut my teeth on the .458 WinMag, and 2150 fps with 500 grainers was always easy to achieve. No more is needed. I like'em all, and still have two .458 WinMags (Whitworth and CZ) that I would never rechamber to .458 Lott (yep I did that to another Whitworth and a CZ). Everybody ought to have at least one .416 Taylor and one .458 WinMag. They easily duplicate the classic .416 Rigby and .450 NE 3-1/4" respectively, in a standard Mauser or a Ruger MkII M77 stainless. Captain Obvious told me so. | |||
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ElCaballero, With your spec sheet, as listed above in the beginning of this thread, you may as well stay with your 458 Win Mag. The sensible thing to do is to pick better bullets as RIP suggests, reduce the bullet mass somewhat and gain some velocity. With a 450 grainer at 2,250 fps you can go to hell, shoot the devil, and come back unharmed. Chris | |||
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The ultimate Brown Bear Rifle (BBR): .458 WinMag Ruger M77 MkII stainless/synthetic with 22" barrel of 1:10" twist. Load it with 450 grainers at 2250 fps. | |||
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458 Lott for sure! Quite versatile for a Big Bore!Factory ammo is also available too! "That's not a knife..THIS is a KNIFE" ! | |||
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Make a long throat .458 win. This way you can load the bullets out as long as the mag box will allow. My long throat .458 win mag will hit 2250 fps duplicating the lott. I'd not go down in caliber.-Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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Personally I´d go with the .416 Rigby, a good option would be a .404 Jeffrey. | |||
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Thanks for the suggestions. I have had my heart set on a .416 Rigby for several years now and was waiting for the PH action to come about. Well with the news of that today I think the best option will be a .416 Taylor. I like to start with just the reciever and bolt when having a rifle built. So the barrel is already gone. | |||
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El CAballero, I have the newest Brownell's catalog right here in front of me. A complete CZ 550 416 action is $618 retail. I have a factory 416R, and have no complaints, especially having that set trigger working loads up off of the bench. Rich | |||
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I thought about that. I even thought about about just getting a factory CZ or Ruger. I may still do one of the above, just not right now. | |||
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