Hey guys, I'm seeking your input here, please forgive me for being mostly a lurker.
I'm looking to add a big bore to my collection, though I don't think I'll ever make it to Africa, or Alaska but I can hope. I was at the LGS and they had some of the Ruger Africans, and Guide Rifles on hand. The African models were 375 Ruger only, and the Guide Rifles were in 375 and 416 Ruger calibers. Sadly they had no M70 Safari models in stock. Should I consider a 416 Ruger or 375 Ruger in the 20" barrel version, or should I hold out and wait for a M70 in 416 Remington or 458win?
Current collection includes a pair of M70 rifles in 7mm rem mag, and 300RUM, a Browning Xbolt 300win, a Rem. 798 in 375H&H(long barrel) with a scope and a pair of 45/70 lever rifles. The recoil of the RUM and 375 doesn't phase me(no brakes on any of them). Suggestions?

I would honestly suggest a CZ 550 Mag in a caliber that you want. My first and only big bore is a CZ 550 in 416 Rigby with the Kevlar stock. I just love the rifle. You can search on the Big Bore forum for my posts on it. They do the 404 Jeffery as well as the 458 Lott.

If you wish you could go the fancy but still affordable way & get Wayne at AHR to do the upgrade with Walnut stock & slick it up. While I have not actually handled one of Wayne's rifles, I really love their look on the pages of AR.

Nakihunter's suggestion is good and should be considered a real contender.

The CZ lets you tinker a bit on playing with ideas for upgrading without costing too much. It is a big, solid rifle. You can handload to 416Weatherby levels.

However, if you don't go to Africa, you already have flat-shooting deer and antelope covered, and you have a long-barreled 375. You should probably try out one of the shorter barreled 375 Ruger's. CDNN has them for $699 (http://www.cdnnsports.com/firearms.html?caliber=2117&cat=14). Both the wood African 23" model and the laminate Alaskan 20" model would be excellent and might find their way into your hands for an elk hunt in the thick stuff, or even long range. The 375Ruger can be loaded a wee-bit faster than the 375H&H. Between the 300RUM and the 375Ruger, your favorite high altitude elk gun will probably end up whichever is most accurate.

It really comes down to what features are important to you. The Ruger comes from the factory with a nice three position safety just like your M70's, although this would also be an inexpensive aftermarket upgrade on a CZ as well.

The CZ will hold a couple of extra rounds if you go with an H&H based case, and will also house a Rigby based round, something the other two can't do ( unless you consider the M77RSM ).

All three rifles mentioned come from the factory with decent iron sights, and the Ruger and CZ both have integral scope mounting systems.

If none of the above features really make any difference to you, then I would suggest simply going with the one that feels the best in your hands and comes to your shoulder and points naturally. They are all fine choices, keep us posted on what you decide!

Look for a nice Whitworth in 458 Winchester or a Ruger in the discontinued RSM in 458 Lott or 416 Rigby. Both are good guns and are available for a reasonable amount.

I'd look a little harder and find a M70 Express in .458.

All the above except a Ruger. I don't like Ruger. They hosed me too many times.

All things considered, including effectiveness, versatility, cost of ammo, cost of the rifle, etc., I'd pick a .416 Rem. Mag. in a Winchester Model 70. I'd put it in a butt ugly synthetic stock by McMillen or someone comparable (I think Hogue is too flexible IMHO), and I'd hve it pillar bedded.

Then you are good for anything that walks this earth.

I personally would buy the Rugers, the question is, what features and caliber interests YOU? Those are the only things that need to be considered. That 375R is a great all around rifle cartridge.

+1 for the .416 Rem. Mag. in a Winchester Model 70
or put a 404J barrel on your 300RUM and you should be good to go :-)

I like my Winchester M70 in 416RM

Cheers,
Mark.

Well, the 416 and 458 calibers have my interest the most. I do have the pair of 45/70s, one is a stainless guide gun, and the other is a standard 1895. I don't really want to touch the ultramag Winchester, as she is a tack driver, as is the zastava/Remington 798. So, I'm toying with the idea of getting a 416 ruger guide rifle, or wait for a M70 in 416 or 458 to pop up. I'm fairly long armed, and as such the 798 in 375H&H, I can shoot it almost limitlessly, and can put 40+rounds down range with the RUM, no sissy brakes, sporter weight guns. The 45/70s, they do deliver recoil differently, especially the light weight guide gun. Marlin and their cheap recoil pads.

If you reload then I would strongly suggest the B&M in. 458. They are built on a winchester 70 action

If it were me I would want a rifle that feeds out of the box first.I then want an accurate barrel that lasts.A good trigger and safety too.I am sure you would enjoy the Ruger in 416.

quote:

though I don't think I'll ever make it to Africa, or Alaska but I can hope

At the risk of offending someone, why not sell the guns you do not shoot or hunt with regularly and use the funds to finance that first trip to Africa for plains game? Any deer rifle starting with a 7mm-08 on up will suffice for most non-DG critters and the ammo is more affordable than the big bore stuff.

Then, if you really want to hunt DG, you can begin looking at rifle of 40 caliber and up.

the most practical big bore is the cz 550 in 458 lott ... can load down to 45 acp levels, and way up there.. broad selection of .458 bullets, powders, etc.. can use magnum basic brass, trimmed, and it just needs to be bedded and cross bolted... bobbed to 21-23" works well too ... i like the euro stock for off hand shooting, the american for blind hunting

If you want a classic bolt gun, then the best buy is the CZ 550 in .404 Jeffery. For a double rifle, then a Merkel in .450-400 or Chapuis would be a great start.

Careful, double rifles are the most addictive thing out there.

quote:

Originally posted by crshelton:

quote:

though I don't think I'll ever make it to Africa, or Alaska but I can hope

At the risk of offending someone, why not sell the guns you do not shoot or hunt with regularly and use the funds to finance that first trip to Africa for plains game? Any deer rifle starting with a 7mm-08 on up will suffice for most non-DG critters and the ammo is more affordable than the big bore stuff.

Then, if you really want to hunt DG, you can begin looking at rifle of 40 caliber and up.

Only thing is, I do shoot with all of those guns, lol. I have to reload out of necessity. Typical day at the range involves 4-6 rifles to trade off as they get hot.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
All things considered, including effectiveness, versatility, cost of ammo, cost of the rifle, etc., I'd pick a .416 Rem. Mag. in a Winchester Model 70. I'd put it in a butt ugly synthetic stock by McMillen or someone comparable (I think Hogue is too flexible IMHO), and I'd hve it pillar bedded.

Then you are good for anything that walks this earth.

I could not agree more. My 416 Rem.

I have three CZ's one in 458WM and two in 458 Lott.None of them fed out of the box and were sent to a smith for a feeding job-could be expensive and complicated.The trigger is poor quality and not serious.The barrels on my rifles were bored too large or whatever and had issues stableizing bullets and had a very short barrel life.The recoil on the Lott was like a nightmare and bashed my face.I dont know what was directly responsible for that-could be that long chamber throat but not sure.
I have a Ruger Lott that I shot maybe 3000 full power rds out until all the rifling vanished.It was a super quick cycler and accurate.
Also if the CZ is not striking primers hard enough your screwed because you cannot change the striker spring by yourself.

I thought people bought CZ's as an inexpensive entry level/kit gun that allows people to tinker without it getting expensive. Kinda like buying unfinished furniture one could finish in their own workshop. So, why would you complain about it not being perfect out of the box?

If I wanted a kit I would buy an action and bottom metal,a Krieger barrel and NECG sights,a trigger and a drop in stock and send it to a smith to put it together.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
If I wanted a kit I would buy an action and bottom metal,a Krieger barrel and NECG sights,a trigger and a drop in stock and send it to a smith to put it together.

Thats what you are doing when you buy a CZ--

Cz in a 404 or m70 in a 416 rem....

Or 416 Rigby....one of my favorites.

quote:
Originally posted by crshelton:

quote:
though I don't think I'll ever make it to Africa, or Alaska but I can hope


At the risk of offending someone, why not sell the guns you do not shoot or hunt with regularly and use the funds to finance that first trip to Africa for plains game? Any deer rifle starting with a 7mm-08 on up will suffice for most non-DG critters and the ammo is more affordable than the big bore stuff.

Then, if you really want to hunt DG, you can begin looking at rifle of 40 caliber and up.

Only thing is, I do shoot with all of those guns, lol. I have to reload out of necessity. Typical day at the range involves 4-6 rifles to trade off as they get hot.

So you like shooting more than hunting?

You can only hunt big game so often a year. The rest of the time, you hunt paper targets!

Roedeer season starts 16aug-bear20aug/moose3sept/wildboar 1sept/fallowdeer nov-feb, lynx 1mars-15april short stop for smallgame only to 1maj roedeer again to 15june then season ends. Start my practice in july on running moose target.We need a little tme for fishing and sauna bath during the summer.

CZ in magnum caliber would be my 2 cents worth.

I recently purchased an off the shelf CZ .416 back in Europe to which I made six modifications from the out of the box version –

1. I swapped out the front iron sight bead for a hi-vis red foresight
2. I opened up the bolt handle 60 degrees to the chamber to allow for easier / faster reloading
3. I soldered the magazine plate closed (too often I have had or seen a fist full of bullets falling around my or someone else’s feet through an opened magazine trap door and it is easy enough to clean from the top)
4. I deactivated the hair trigger (please CZ explain to me why a heavy big bore rifle like the CZ 550 Magnum is built with hair trigger?)
5. I sun polished the bolt to give the action the smoothest movement you can imagine
6. I moved the front sling bracket from the wood stock to the barrel

I would not ‘undo’ any of these modifications and am convinced that they all make sense (at least for me and the hunting that I have done and plan to do with the .416).

A while ago on a DG hunt there were 4 CZ rifles in camp out of 6. To me that says something.

A great, inexpensive heavy rifle!