Awww Heck!!!! Setting up to fireform some .458 AR cases. I thought I had two cannisters of Bullseye. One is almost empty and the other is among the missing. Charge weight has been recommended to be 18 to 20 grains with a cream of wheat filler.

Fastest powder on the shelf is Red Dot. Have more than enough. OK to use this? Anyone recommend a charge weight?

Thanks!

I don't know what a 458 AR is but have found that Red Dot works equally well as BE. Same charge.

Ray

Should work just fine. If cases are not fully formed, add a bit more.

Keith

Thanks Guys ... actually found the Bullseye. Was in a different place. Nice to know about the Rede Dot though. I'll burn up the BE and then not buy anymore.

Unique works well, I use 16 gr. and cornmeal filler with a paper wad to fireform 416 REM to 450 Ackley. Works great!

You guys have me baffled. In the target sector most fire-forming is done with a much slower powder than works in the cartridge. Slow pressure curve to form the brass and you can't get too much powder in the case. Guess I'm just a little backwards.

peg

You're talking about fire-forming with a bullet. We're talking about fire-forming WITHOUT a bullet. And I wonder where you got that "slower powder works best"? I am in the "target sector" and I always use the same powders as in in my final loads.

Ray

The old guys that showed me a thing or two about bench shooting taught me to use a slow powder in my PPC, seat the bullet long so the lands and groves keep the cartridge against the bolt face and fill the case up to the bottom of the shoulder. Fire once and then go to your usual powder on the next shot. Haven't heard of fireforming without a bullet.

peg

Most shooters that I know fire-form PPC brass with a case full of N133, H322, 8208, or whatever powder they happen to be using at the time. I don't think you can get too much powder in the un-formed case.

Some shooters do like to fire-form without a bullet. They use a light charge of BE or Red Dot and either top it with a small wad of toilet paper or cream of wheat and a wax plug. Their theory is that they prefer to do the final prep on a case that is close to the chamber dimensions. By prep I mean neck turning, removal of the donut, trimming etc.

I have used both methods and can't say that there is much difference in the end result. I fire-form my PPC with a bullet because I can use the rounds to sight in and you can even shoot very good groups with them. I fire-form my long-range brass without a bullet because I usually make up 200 cases and don't want to waste that much barrel life in fire-forming.

Ray

Mike,

I use 18 grains of Bullseye in my 458 AR. Pack about 45-50 grains of corn meal on top and fold up a half a square of toilet paper and shove it in with a Q-Tip.

Fireforms perfect cases every time.

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ust 18 grains of Bullseye in my 458 AR. Pack about 45-50 grains of corn meal on top and fold up a half a square of toilet paper and shove it in with a Q-Tip.

Fireforms perfect cases every time.

Exactly my method except I use the same amount of Unique. The case comes out like it was a factory made round.

HOWEVER, ONLY ONE PERSON MADE MENTION THAT YOU DON'T USE A BULLET WITH THIS METHOD. USE A BULLET AND KISS BYE, BYE TO THE RIFLE AND YOUR CONTINUEING GOOD HEALTH!

Guys,

Sorry I did not mention that I was going to use cream of wheat and a little paper towel to hold it all in ... no bullet. Could have potentially caused a problem for someone who was not familiar with fireforming with NO bullet!

Jeffe had recommended 18 grains of BE at one point and 20 at another. I used 19 gr and it worked fine.

Did 65 of them. Is actually surprisingly loud. Don't point the weapon at anything important while doing this! They are almost as fully filled out as if final forming were done with a bullet. Certainly good enough.

Cases have been resized and are in the tumbler. Will load them tonight or tomorrow morning and do final sight-in tomorrow afternoon or Friday. Leaving for Texas to shoot Bison on Saturday.

quote:

Did 65 of them. Is actually surprisingly loud. Don't point the weapon at anything important while doing this! They are almost as fully filled out as if final forming were done with a bullet. Certainly good enough.

When I did it I went down to the 200-300 yard range at my local gun club because there aren't many people around. I just kept the gun at about 45 degrees pointed downrange to keep everything shoved in the back of the case.

I wish I would have had a camera to see the peoples faces that were around me. A few knew what was going on but the others had no idea why burning TP was flying out the end of my barrel.

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I wish I would have had a camera to see the peoples faces that were around me. A few knew what was going on but the others had no idea why burning TP was flying out the end of my barrel.

What was funnier than that was when my wife walked by the door to my loading room and saw me stuffing TP in the cases. That confirmed her suspicions that I was truly nuts.

Ray

and, it makes a REALLY big boom, but no recoil.... to speak of

jeffe