quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
See I told y'all that I couldn't speak southern. That's why I suggested an interpreter!

465H&H

quote:

It is "y'all" a contraction of "you all."
Let's get the apostrophe in the right place! Wink

I am president and only member of ALLY: Advocacy for the Linguistic Legitimacy of "Y'all."
I think y'all is a perfectly good pronoun which should be adopted by the entire English-speaking world.
As it stands, "you" is ambiguous as a second person pronoun. It can mean either one or many people to whom you are speaking. (See? You don't know if I'm talking to one or several of you now, and I'm not going to tell you.) The pronoun "y'all" would forever remove this ambiguity and eliminate a number of embarrassing and unfortunate misunderstandings. For this reason, legitimizing the word "y'all" could even make a contribution to World Peace.

The possessive of the word "y'all" is regular, which is not to be found in any other pronoun. That word is "y'all's." It sounds just exactly like the word "yawls." If you're talking to one person who has a gun, you would say "your gun", as normal. But if more than one person has one gun, then it would be "y'all's gun." Nothing ambiguous at all.

If I am referring to a big bore rifle belonging to a group of people, I would say "That big bore rifle is y'alls'." And you would have no question as to who I was referring to. The pronunciation of "y'alls'" is "yawls", but it can be mispronounced as "yawlses." This is unfortunate, for it makes the speaker sound like a hick. Even worse is the mispronunciation of "y'all's" in this way, as in "I like 'yawlses' guns." ALLY does in no way condone this abuse of our pronoun.

So "y'all" is a very important word. And it's unfortunate that some of y'all don't recognize it.

OK OK, I put the little ' in the wrong spot! Thanks RIP for sorting that out for me and getting things put in order, as they should be! And RIP--Brian is "Da Man"!

465HH has never told me about a short light 458???

Well 458 B&M does just exactly that easy in 18 inches of barrel!

465HH

Hang around with this crowd long enough we'll sort your shortcomings in the english language out in short order! We will set you straight! In no time at all, you will begin to understand, comprehend, and even join in all our conversations with ease! Come hang around with me awhile I can probably teach you some new words, but don't go home and say them in front of your kids or grandchildren! Grandchildren, maybe, because they go home and piss the parents off when they say it, but then they tell on you too!

Glenn

Where do I sign up for my membership in ALLY? Y'all think I kidding?

I could not have explained that any better, excellent job, but I would not expect anything less, you are from Alabama, that's a little west of South, and it sure ain't "South Carolina" the greatest state in all the Union, long as you don't piss us off and we leave the Union, again, but Alabama is almost in the right spot!

Michael

OK in between all the other shooting things I had to do today, I did build a few T'Rex Boxes!

Now boys, take it for what it's worth and what you paid for it. What does it mean? Well it means merely that this is pretty tough material, some bullets do very well, some did other things. That's about all I will say about it. Judge for yourselves. Now I did the best I could to build the box the same as the other day with the 500. It's close each time, exact, no.

Anyway here we go. First is the 550 gr Woodleigh FMJ.

It suffered no apparent damage to the bullet. Did not bend, or deform in any way that I can see.


It pulverized the first set of boards consisting of 1 Rhino Board and 1X4 Wood set at an angle. It hit the Rhino board so hard it flipped it completely out of the box to the floor.


It also knocked the crap out of the second set of boards, knocking big hunks off the Rhino board.


From there it lost stability and continued to the last board at 29 inches hitting it at the bottom of the board sideways. It was NOT FOUND in the position you see it in the photo, it was towards the side of the box, I placed it there for the photo.

Next up was the 500 Nosler Solid.


It plowed dead straight through all three Rhino boards and the 1X4s and 2X6. Dead straight to 48 inches where it started to veer off course.



It did suffer some minor damage to the meplat, caved in some as you can see.

Last was the 500 Rhino!

Wow, it hammered straight through everything to 50 inches dead straight. From there it took a slight gradual turn downward and exited the box at 59 inches, it was not recovered. At 59 inches it was only 2 inches off course. It did very well.


It's been a long couple of days, on the range. Not much terminal, but have been doing a lot of other things.

I still hope to get to the 45/70 work this week, and will do my best. Two new boxes are ready, soaking overnight, so I hope to get to some tomorrow.

For now I am calling it a day!

Later guys, have a good evening!
Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
OK OK, I put the little ' in the wrong spot! Thanks RIP for sorting that out for me and getting things put in order, as they should be! And RIP--Brian is "Da Man"!

465HH has never told me about a short light 458???

Well 458 B&M does just exactly that easy in 18 inches of barrel!

465HH

Hang around with this crowd long enough we'll sort your shortcomings in the english language out in short order! We will set you straight! In no time at all, you will begin to understand, comprehend, and even join in all our conversations with ease! Come hang around with me awhile I can probably teach you some new words, but don't go home and say them in front of your kids or grandchildren! Grandchildren, maybe, because they go home and piss the parents off when they say it, but then they tell on you too!

Glenn

Where do I sign up for my membership in ALLY? Y'all think I kidding?

I could not have explained that any better, excellent job, but I would not expect anything less, you are from Alabama, that's a little west of South, and it sure ain't "South Carolina" the greatest state in all the Union, long as you don't piss us off and we leave the Union, again, but Alabama is almost in the right spot!

Michael

I am really trying hard to learn to understand "southern". Learning to speak it also is too much to hope for in the short time I have left on this earth. I'll never accomplish it in the next 20 or 30 years. I tried to find some of the southern words such as ya'll and you'ins(sp?)but I couldn't find them in any of my english dictionaries. I tried to find one on e-bay but every one laughed at me. Where can I find a southern dictionary?

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Last was the 500 Rhino!

Wow, it hammered straight through everything to 50 inches dead straight. From there it took a slight gradual turn downward and exited the box at 59 inches, it was not recovered. At 59 inches it was only 2 inches off course. It did very well.


It's been a long couple of days, on the range. Not much terminal, but have been doing a lot of other things.

I still hope to get to the 45/70 work this week, and will do my best. Two new boxes are ready, soaking overnight, so I hope to get to some tomorrow.

For now I am calling it a day!

Later guys, have a good evening!
Michael

Thanks for the second Rhino test.

I sent an email to Chris Melgard as I had promised with the results of the second test and the url for the web site. I'd already sent the results from the first test.

I hope, now that the SCI show is over, he might chime in with a couple of war stories.

Glenn,
Brilliant!
Sign me up for ALLY, or ASS (Association of Southern Speakers), or SSS (Society of Southern Shooters), or something equally as proud in all its connotations!

465H&H is not trying very hard.
The "Webster's New Universal Unabridged Dictionary" has an entry for "y'all": pronoun you-all.

Don't forget the double contracted "y'all're" as in:

Y'all're are gonna like this!
Watch me pull both triggers at once!

Oops, should have read:
Y'all're gonna ...
The iphone edit screen won't allow me to fix it.

Michael,
More excellence!
The Rhino bullet seems to penetrate Rhino boards well!
Sort of like an S&H brass FN .395/330-grainer.
... studying that nose shape ...
How long is that Rhino solid?

In my frequent expeditions into The Deep South, I have been taught by "native informants," that you refer to a couple of friends as "y'all," and a large group as "all y'all."

Andy

A little different test

http://www.northforkbullets.co...Hunter%20Article.pdf

quote:

Originally posted by I Bin Therbefor:
A little different test

http://www.northforkbullets.co...Hunter%20Article.pdf

Nosler bullets in diameters from .375 upward have the partition moved forward and penetrate much deeper with slower expansion than smaller diameters. See Michael's test of the .458 500 grain above.

465H&H

quote:

ya'll and you'ins(sp?)but I couldn't find them in any of my english dictionaries.

Yes, it's "you'uns", which is very much substandard. ALLY does not recognize this word. It is especially unwise to use this in urban areas of the South, as it stigmatizes the user as a hick, just as much as "you guys" stigmatizes the speaker as a "Yankee." ("You guys" is especially dangerous in rural areas.)

quote:

you refer to a couple of friends as "y'all," and a large group as "all y'all."

Yes, very good point. "All y'all" stresses a quantity of people and sometimes carries an emotional component as well (gratitude, affection, tipsiness, etc.) As in "I'm glad all y'all could come", "I love all y'all!" ALLY accepts this use of "y'all."

This is very good also:

quote:

Y'all're are gonna like this!

Perfectly good contraction!

I'm happy that y'all are coming to recognize the usefulness of "y'all" as a legitimate pronoun. It shows y'all's intelligence, so I accept all y'all's memberships into ALLY!


Thanks again to Michael for an informative series of tests.

quote:

Anyway here we go. First is the 550 gr Woodleigh FMJ.

Another good example of an FMJ performing erratically in your test medium. They generally seem to go like a drunk on a bicycle.

quote:

500 Nosler Solid.

This one performed about as I would have expected. The meplat seems to be a little wide, I would guesstimate about .33 inch.
If you use this in the classic SD formula, you get an effective SD of .656. Multiplying by this by the velocity, you get a momentum density of 1427. Dividing by the constants 21 and 27 for Michael's test mix, you get an estimated penetration range of 68"-53".
So 59" is within the predicted range.

quote:

Last was the 500 Rhino!

This meplat is narrower. I would guesstimate about .315. Using this in the formula and multiplying by the velocity, the momentum density is 1566. Using the two constants, I get a penetration range of about 75" to a low of 58". And 59" is within the range also.

I'm beginning to see the validity of using the momentum density as a general predictor for flat-nosed bullets. It's certainly no substitution for tests, but it does give an expected range.
Best of all, it's fairly easy.

You see, we learn far more here than simple terminal ballistics! 465HH, just hang tight with this thread, forget the "southern Dictionary" we will teach you everything you need to know about "Southern Speak".

In fact some excellent points made by many, Andy-"all y'all" perfect, sometimes used as plural of "y'all" in addition to a larger group, or more than 2-3 individuals.

RIP "y'all're" perfect usage and translation thank you!

Glenn perhaps the best point of all, "you'uns" is also not recognized as proper "Southern English". ugggg! Terrible, lack of class and substance! Absolutely should not be recognized in ALLY. Substandard! Definitely not used by a "Southern Gentleman" nor a lady of class!

Very good gentlemen!

Michael

Would it be easier if y'all paid me to come down there and teach you real english?

465H&H

Not only is Andy fluent in South Speak,
he also has an appreciation for fast twist,
like in a 1:9" twist .375 H&H Imp.
He is a regular renaissance man.

Gentlemen,
It grieves me to have to point out that in the South any word "might could" be spelled in any manner the speaker chooses. Spelling a word only one way is a Yankee invention.
I speak as a Captain in the Confederate Navy, a lecturer on the Confederate Navy to two meetings of the Sons of the Confederacy and a resident of the South for 28 years (a "mascot" adopted by South)

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Would it be easier if y'all paid me to come down there and teach you real english?
465H&H

Well, this sounds pretty good to me, but if I have to pay you, you bring the sake! If you come for free, I will supply the Sake! How's that sound y'all? Fair enough?

RIP, Andy did real good! And IBT, where ya from Boy? HEH! Sounds like you might be close by?

Yes, I know I am supposed to be on the range doing test work. I only come in to change guns and pick up more ammo for testing! I am going back now, so I take my leave of you fine Gents and rest assured, I will return!

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Would it be easier if y'all paid me to come down there and teach you real english?
465H&H

Well, this sounds pretty good to me, but if I have to pay you, you bring the sake! If you come for free, I will supply the Sake! How's that sound y'all? Fair enough?

RIP, Andy did real good! And IBT, where ya from Boy? HEH! Sounds like you might be close by?

Yes, I know I am supposed to be on the range doing test work. I only come in to change guns and pick up more ammo for testing! I am going back now, so I take my leave of you fine Gents and rest assured, I will return!

Michael

Middle Tennessee, right in the center of the state. Closer to RIP. If I lived up the road a piece from you (or RIP), I'd be more than happy to show up and soak and shovel!

quote:

Gentlemen,
It grieves me to have to point out that in the South any word "might could" be spelled in any manner the speaker chooses. Spelling a word only one way is a Yankee invention.
I speak as a Captain in the Confederate Navy, a lecturer on the Confederate Navy to two meetings of the Sons of the Confederacy and a resident of the South for 28 years (a "mascot" adopted by South)

ALLY believes that "y'all" is already standardized as the accepted spelling of our pronoun. So we're off the hook, I think.

Another word that begs for legitimacy is the Southern word "fixen." As in, "I'm fixen to go shoot my .458 B&M." (To keep things on topic.) There is no acceptable substitute for "fixen" anywhere in the English language. You could say "I am about to go shoot...", but this does not carry the meaning of "I am fixen." Fixen means you are already prepared and you intend to do something, whereas "I am about to" could mean that you could easily be wishy-washy and disorganized about the situation.

quote:

You see, we learn far more here than simple terminal ballistics! 465HH, just hang tight with this thread, forget the "southern Dictionary" we will teach you everything you need to know about "Southern Speak".

That's right. You would normally have to pay for education like this. But you get it here for free, right here in AR.
And, 465, you are already an honorary member of ALLY because you want to understand.

I would like to offer my favorite southern word. FUSS. You can: fuss over someone (or thing), fuss at someone (or thing), fuss about someone (or thing). And you'd better understand which is taking place if you wish to survive the process.

My friends from the North ask what is different about working in the South. Easy, in the North you do the job and then sit down and have coffee, in the South you have ice tea and then do the job. Takes as long either way BUT the sequence is VERY important.

quote:

Originally posted by someoldguy:

quote:

Gentlemen,
It grieves me to have to point out that in the South any word "might could" be spelled in any manner the speaker chooses. Spelling a word only one way is a Yankee invention.
I speak as a Captain in the Confederate Navy, a lecturer on the Confederate Navy to two meetings of the Sons of the Confederacy and a resident of the South for 28 years (a "mascot" adopted by South)

ALLY believes that "y'all" is already standardized as the accepted spelling of our pronoun. So we're off the hook, I think.

Another word that begs for legitimacy is the Southern word "fixen." As in, "I'm fixen to go shoot my .458 B&M." (To keep things on topic.) There is no acceptable substitute for "fixen" anywhere in the English language. You could say "I am about to go shoot...", but this does not carry the meaning of "I am fixen." Fixen means you are already prepared and you intend to do something, whereas "I am about to" could mean that you could easily be wishy-washy and disorganized about the situation.

quote:

You see, we learn far more here than simple terminal ballistics! 465HH, just hang tight with this thread, forget the "southern Dictionary" we will teach you everything you need to know about "Southern Speak".

That's right. You would normally have to pay for education like this. But you get it here for free, right here in AR.
And, 465, you are already an honorary member of ALLY because you want to understand.

Glenn,
I don't understand that!

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Would it be easier if y'all paid me to come down there and teach you real english?
465H&H

Well, this sounds pretty good to me, but if I have to pay you, you bring the sake! If you come for free, I will supply the Sake! How's that sound y'all? Fair enough?

RIP, Andy did real good! And IBT, where ya from Boy? HEH! Sounds like you might be close by?

Yes, I know I am supposed to be on the range doing test work. I only come in to change guns and pick up more ammo for testing! I am going back now, so I take my leave of you fine Gents and rest assured, I will return!

Michael

That depends on how much sake you can drink!

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Glenn perhaps the best point of all, "you'uns" is also not recognized as proper "Southern English". ugggg! Terrible, lack of class and substance! Absolutely should not be recognized in ALLY. Substandard! Definitely not used by a "Southern Gentleman" nor a lady of class!

Very good gentlemen!

Michael

Ah hum… so now we’re doing Southern class warfare are we!

I realize that I hail from the poorer end of the South as both parents and grandparents are native of the Ozark Mountains of Arkansas, I myself was born in a hospital just outside the Mountains so don’t quite fit the profile, so I can truly state that “you’uns” is common usage amongst folks of my grandparents age…if still alive….mine are deceased. Still have some 3rd, 4th, and 5th cousins that still speak as such. And should you think education or wealth can give you the better of them in business dealings then you’d best be ready to walk back to the hotel…perhaps as bare as you entered this world! They may not have a college education, perhaps haven’t finished high school, but they certainly aren’t stupid and they definitely have a high level of common sense. The only thing they enjoy almost as much as fleecing a yankee is fleecing a flatlander!

I personally mind my mouth, say my “sirs” and “mams” and show proper respect for all when around them; I also have great personal ambition to see the next sunrise. And yes I’m generally polite and respectful to all that I’m around unless they’re “as…les”, then…

quote:

And, 465, you are already an honorary member of ALLY because you want to understand. Smiler



Glenn,
I don't understand that! Roll Eyes

It's because you said you're trying to learn Southern. This must mean that you want to understand and the desire to understand makes you an honorary member of ALLY. For full-fledged membership, you have to have used "y'all" at least 3 times daily in normal conversation.

quote:

Ah hum… so now we’re doing Southern class warfare are we!

Nope, nope, nope.
I hope you know that all this is in jest.
The use of regionalisms and intelligence are two entirely different things, I agree.

I think it's unfortunate that I don't hear "you'uns" as often because most of those who use it are now elderly and won't be with us much longer. Hearing "you'uns" makes me feel at home.

Well?
"I've heard" that he is a lot older than he looks. So perhaps the Sake has some preservative properties that I need to look into.

Sorry cant stay, I'm working on a mess of collard greens.

John

quote:

Originally posted by someoldguy:
I think it's unfortunate that I don't hear "you'uns" as often because most of those who use it are now elderly and won't be with us much longer. Hearing "you'uns" makes me feel at home.

I miss it too Glenn, lost the last of the grandparents in June 1991 and definately don't hear it here in California.

quote:

I miss it too Glenn, lost the last of the grandparents in June 1991 and definately don't hear it here in California.

I could only imagine that in California they think you're a hick if you say "y'all."
My playful suggestion about "y'all" came up in Hawaii, of all places. I explained to a lady why "y'all" should be used by everybody. When I'd finished, she playfully agreed.

Unfortunately, that was all she would agree to, though.

quote:

Originally posted by someoldguy:

quote:

I miss it too Glenn, lost the last of the grandparents in June 1991 and definately don't hear it here in California.

I could only imagine that in California they think you're a hick if you say "y'all."
My playful suggestion about "y'all" came up in Hawaii, of all places. I explained to a lady why "y'all" should be used by everybody. When I'd finished, she playfully agreed.

Unfortunately, that was all she would agree to, though.

Glenn, that depends where you are in California. In some parts of the Central Valley (the biggest agricultural area of the US of A) you would swear you aren't really in California.

Whew, starting out worn out tired already. Couple of things. Have been spending some very long days on the range lately. A couple of you guys have called, I have not got back up with you yet. My apology! Long days on the range, coming in late, too worn out to get on the phone! Will be back on the range today too.

Now, I finished late yesterday afternoon with some terminal test work, and was so worn out the last few days I have neglected getting all the data input and organized. I spent 4 hrs this morning getting the data in, organized, and backed up!

ClintsFolly had sent a couple of different bullets to test at his requested velocity and in addition to that Sharpsguy sent complete Black Powder loads with 4 different bullets to test. All was great fun and will report on each individually so we don't get things confused, or at least I don't get confused.

Also did an almost twist test--down to two bullets in each twist for the 45/70-458 B&M and the 400 Barnes Buster. Results as expected. This too, will report separate.

So Y'all pay attention.

Michael

Ok, first Clintsfolly bullets. .458 caliber, loaded in 45/70 to Clints spec velocities.




I did not get 48 yd impact velocity for the 390 RN--the 1885 did not like this bullet so good, I could not depend on POI, so I did not take any chances of shooting the screens with it.

Michael

Next let's look at Sharpsguys loads and bullets. This was a most interesting test for me, as I have ZERO experience with black powder loads. With excellent coaching from Sharpsguy I was able to pull this off, but could have never done it without his coaching. It was quite good fun to tell you the truth, and gave an excellent test of my exhaust fans to boot! They work great, the fans! Sharps sent 5 loaded rounds of each bullet, expertly loaded I might add. Loads chambered and shot to perfection, of course it took me a few minutes to be able to see where I hit. At first I fired two spotter loads with the first couple of bullets, then just shot because all were on target and no issue. After discussing with Sharps we decided to shoot short, at 22 yds impact. Some things come up, so with 4 bullets I am going to do a separate post with each.


First let's look at the 540 Cast FN.


One of the anomalies of some of these tests, 2 bullets each, #1 produced different results? No, there was no cross overs of bullet tracks, and after 4 shots without crossing, the mix was changed? Seemed #1 on the first 3 tests did the funny thing #2 looked great???????

Next we look at the 520 RN. I suspected the RN would turn, veer off course, but they did not. However the expansion and deformation of the nose negates all of those issues. I would NOT consider these to be RN or FN solids, they do not perform that function. Basically they all expand, or the nose deforms in some way, and that has more of an effect on penetration than actually nose profile to begin with. If I classed them it would be more to the expanding bullet side than the solids. So one would look at these the same way you would look at a 500 gr Swift A frame in a 458 Lott. So view the penetration in that light please for all of them. Michaels RULE OF THUMB for bovines is 20 inches of penetration with any expanding bullet! Yes, 17-18 will do it as a minimum optimum. There is a great contradiction on this coming up last in todays report too, but that's back when I was more ignorant than I am now!



Michael

Now the 511 Paper Patch Load!

And last but not least is the 470 FN Cast bullet.

Now I promise, I cannot explain the #1 bullet being effected every time there were no free rides, no paths touched, nothing else in the mix other than normal (no T'Rex Material), nothing I could identify. It's always possible that a bullet can hit the binding on one of the magazines or catalogs and effect it. I have had some of the flat nose solids hit one of the staples in the binding and make a perfect imprint on the nose of the bullet, but to no effect on those. Yes, how does one make a decision on the BEST bullet with each one showing 1 excellent-the other either just good or something else? I can only assume Michael will have to fire a 3rd and have the best two out of three? Sharps? I still have two each of the 540 and 520--3 each of the 511 PP and 470. I will plan another series of tests with them, but it will be next week if that suits all involved or lurking?

It was fun however, and Sharps I appreciate the support, the faith, and the opportunity!

Michael

One thing more about Sharps. Sharps is an international hunter, using this black powder stuff,and each of these bullets on large critters. All these bullets have performed very well on animals zebra size, elk size and such as that. There are no failures here. He is planning a bovine hunt next year, with one of these bullets and loads! To me, regardless of bullet I have zero doubt in my mind he will be successful in his endeavor, all bullets fired here will do the job.

I am rather bold, and I would classify the ones that expanded, taking a guess, I would add 80% to 100% penetration in animal tissue to what is obtained in the test medium, the bullets that did not expand I would add 30-35% penetration in animal tissue. Now, having no experience with this sort of thing, well maybe just a touch, discussed later, that does seem a bit bold of me, however currently that is my opinion, as we stand at this moment. Now which one is going to expand I don't have a clue, and which one might hit bone or something and do something funny, I don't have a clue? But as in many things in life, we "takes" our chances and move forward eh?

I might even take one bullet, depending on what Sharps says, and insert a 2X4 or similar to see what effect we might have? No, not the Rhino board, regular wood 2X4.

Interesting stuff!

Michael

OK the promised twist test with the 45/70 1885 and the 458 B&M and the 400 Barnes Buster!
I was in a "Two" mood yesterday! Two of everything tested. Again, the faster 1:14 twist of the 458 B&M out performed the slower twist rate of the 45/70 1885. You math guys can calculate the percentage of course, but it appears to be by a fair margin, once again. However, in this test the 56-58% meplat of caliber 400 Barnes was not able to remain 100% stable for penetration, even in the faster twist. One of these veered off course and exited the top of the box, as you see, or actually as you don't see because the bullet was not recovered.

Basic jest of the matter is this-the 1885 bullets penetrated on average to 22 inches dead straight before veering off course. The 458 B&M bullets penetrated to an average of 35 inches dead straight before veering off course or coming to a stop. Now looking at that, velocity is close, same bullet, same impact 48 yd impact, same medium, same everything, except for twist rate? Does this answer this question?

OK for me it does indeed answer this question for this bullet in this caliber-in these two guns. To make that a broad statement taking in all guns and calibers and bullets, that's a bit of a stretch. All I can say for sure, is that I now have two calibers that exhibit this same exact behavior with certain bullets, it does seem to be a trend. To make a blanket statement however is a stretch to me. I believe it to be true in .500 caliber and in .458 caliber, with the bullets I have shot and tested. Could be different in others?



Jim (capoward), you are to be credited with bringing this to our attention, thanks. For the stats folks, well? Do I need to shoot 3-5 more to be happy?

Michael

I've been mostly lurking as this thread is way long and certianly full of interesting posits.

Can I assume a few factors?

1. deleted-redundant to #2

2. Bullet weight compared to caliber (SD) is directly related to penetration (heavier for caliber bullets at a given velocity penetrate better than lighter?

3. Twist rate may have correlation to penetration (stability in impact medium??)? Does a bullet tend to continue rotating after impact? If torque is rather minimal, impact/penetration friction should slow rotation rapidly or is there a component of very little rotational resistance in media (varying of course-I'd think wet paper and animal tissue would have significant levels of resistance to rotation)? The comment about the drill analogy does not seem logical-a drill has constant torque applied and the cutting edge pulls the drill through the media, a bullet does not-it seems to be blunt force trauma at high impact velocity.

4. Solid bullet nose design is directly related to penetration-wide(r) meplat for a given SD/velocity equals greater (straighter) penetration (up to a certain point)?

5. Bullet construction (tough enough to withstand lateral forces w/o bending longitudinally or deforming the nose)is equally important as #4 ref. total pentration.

Lastly, My own wet paper testing was several years ago with 416 softs- they seemed to go quite deep and expand rather well w/o core seperation, I'd estimate that at a MV of 2400 w/ impact range of 25 M, I was getting 18-20 inches of wet brown grocery bag bale penetration-perhaps tougher media than newsprint. Hornady 400 and Speer 350s-the 350s (semi pointed, went maybe 2/3s compared to the 400s.

Sorry if I am late in the test curve!

Regards;