Ray,

As to cartridges falling out have you ever used the HS Precision rifle or the vertical stack 378 based Wbys?

Mike

Well, I guess it was rather naive to think this thread could go clear of the CRF/PF debate - i just thought thought that horse were at least 6 feet under long time ago. But since we are at it, I'll state what I always do.

As have come up, both actions can be abused, and by so letting its user down.
If your head boils, do not blame the rifle.
If your rifle is not properly maintained, do not blame the rifle.
If you do not know your rifle, do not blame the rifle.

No kind of properly maintained, quality rifle has ever let me down as long as I do my part.

Bent,

You can maintain the rifle until the cows come home but CRF depends on case rim dimensions and condition and extractor groove dimensions and condition to a degree that is far greater than PF.

As I said earlier on either this thread or the "Weatherby action" thread these discussions are good for readers of the threads. Again, 98% of the posters have made up their mind and no one will change the other person but shooters with less experience with variety of rifles/conditions will get to see the various arguments put forward.

Mike

I own both CRF and push feed rifles. I also have a pair that are really neither one, but semi CRF. One is a Ruger 77, one is a CZ. A properly functioning CRF does have some advantages over a proper functioning PF particularly for a DGR. That is why most gunsmiths who specialize in DGR build them on a CRF action. The only malfunction I have had working a rifle action was with a Rem 700 that had a slick buttplate and their trademark short bolt handle. When I'd jerk the bolt handle up, the butt would slip off my shoulder, the Rem needs a longer bolt handle, part of this is possibly caused by a stouter firing pin spring that reduces locktime. I can say this , there are no slicker operating actions I've used than a good commercial FN from the early 50's, I have a pair that will chamber a cartridge from the mag just by tipping the barrel down while the bolt is back. These are my choice of an action for a serious hunting rifle. Unlike some, I don't get emotional and argue if someone doesn't like what I do, just don't care. There are some advantages to CRF rifles. You don't have to buy one if you don't like them.

quote:

Originally posted by jstevens:
You don't have to buy one if you don't like them.

And many don't

But sure your right, except that I for one am not getting hysterical, just countering the idea that a DG PF WILL get you killed, and a DG CRF WILL save your bacon.

I'm thinking someone used to their PF and knows its peculiaritaries may well be better off than buying a new CRF that they are not used too.
Especially with the PH along to supervise.

The CRF merchants state theirs is the ONLY way to go, or doom and destruction.

Thanks to all who have had problems with either type we learn what not to do. Just like the man who got his M70 safety and bolt handle in the wrong place and didn't realise how to correct it immediately, and simply. Now I know also.

Yet we now have small and medium calibres specially advertised as CRF as a must have system, and even a .22RF. Sounds like hysterics to me.

Speaking of the FN, I bought an FN Browing made in Belgium, purchased new about 1960. It had a dicky little peep on the rear of the action.

I was 16 or 17 and I don't think I new that it was a CRF or cared either way. (It wasn't a DG rifle anyway.) Although an Asian buff can get quite upset if you annoy it, or even a wild bull for that matter.

But we are thrashing out the differences and peccadillos of these actions here for all who are interested. And I am one.

Nobody is required by law to own, and hunt with a CRF rifle, even for dangerous game! That fact doesn't change the fact that a CRF action is simply a better design,that is less likely to get you into trouble with malfunctions!

Buy what ever you want! At least in the free world! Lumping the two designs as equal is the same as the gun grabbers lumping all guns as the same, "A GUN IS A GUN", and makes no more sense! There are guns that are good, and there are guns that are better. Choose the one you want, and go hunting, but because you choose a certain type, doesn't automaticlly make the design better simply because you chose it! The differences are provable, machaniclly, but the Ostrich's "head in the sand" seems to work better than facts!........BYE

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
The differences are provable, machaniclly, but the Ostrich's "head in the sand" seems to work better than facts!........BYE

Sure, and the problems with either depend on the test proceedure. And some ost er people sort their "facts" into different priorities.
Two seperate PH's of the old school have pointed out at least three seperate possible problems that could get you killed with CRF's. And then there is that Aussie Weatherby shooter as well. And if you called him an oster something he might come over there and peck you.

Great thread
Here is a picture of a CRF action - in action. Pulled back to the point before extraction of the case.
Note how straight the empty case lies this is how a m98 styled action should be tuned.

Great story Alf

Cheers,

André

Andrè, we know you have a super rifle.
Please tell us; if you slowly pull backwards until it gets pushed off the boltface, does it eject clear of the gun, or does it need a certain force for that to happen?

Going very slow will provoke the exact same thing as a very fast shortstroke.

quote:

Originally posted by JAL:
And then there is that Aussie Weatherby shooter as well. And if you called him an oster something he might come over there and peck you.

Son, where I come from people peck each other, and some peck harder than others!

Bent
It beaks my hart to say "It does not eject!!!"
The empty case stays in the gun
I do however cycle my bolt very hard - I am that type of man

The magnum mauser is unnecessary long for a .500 Jeffery and short stroking could be a problem is the bolt handle is operated by women or other weak persons
IMO the .500 Jeffery is better of in a modified standard mauser action.

The only advantage the magnum action has is that reloading under a stressful situation is easier due to the extra space/length in the action.

Cheers,

André

quote:

Originally posted by Bent Fossdal:
Andrè, we know you have a super rifle.
Please tell us; if you slowly pull backwards until it gets pushed off the boltface, does it eject clear of the gun, or does it need a certain force for that to happen?

Going very slow will provoke the exact same thing as a very fast shortstroke.

quote:

Originally posted by JefferyDenmark:
Great thread
Here is a picture of a CRF action - in action. Pulled back to the point before extraction of the case.
Note how straight the empty case lies this is how a m98 styled action should be tuned.

Great story Alf

Cheers,

André

I tried to take the same picture with my Sako, it just kept ejecting the cases.

John

That is a good thing .
It must have a spring ejecting system.

Cheers,

André

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Boar Hunter:

quote:

Originally posted by JefferyDenmark:
Great thread
Here is a picture of a CRF action - in action. Pulled back to the point before extraction of the case.
Note how straight the empty case lies this is how a m98 styled action should be tuned.

Great story Alf

Cheers,

André

I tried to take the same picture with my Sako, it just kept ejecting the cases.

John

Truthfully the Sako 75 uses an ejctor system just like the Mausers. I was just curious if anyone realised there were pushfeeds that didn't have the alternate (ie reaching for it) shortstroking issue. The Sako 75 is one of the few PF that doesn't use a spring mounted plunger.

John

Going back to being a turd division...