They have discontinued building the 450 Marlin at Clarks. I went by there the other day and picked up the catalog. And on there price list they label the gun as discontinued. LLB

How's about this for a strange one. While digging around W-W's site, looking for any way possible to avoid work, I went to the M70 Classic, Custom Short Action page http://www.winchester-guns.com/prodinfo/catalog/detail.asp?cat_id=535&type_id=915&cat=013C to oogle. 2/3 of the way down the list of available calibers is the 450 Marlin.

Is that different, or what??

R-WEST

It's different, but at $2708, they aren't going to sell many.

George

Yeah Winchester takes a big bite with their Custom M70 but you can get the same action chambered for the .450 Marlin from Clark's for around $800.00. In fact they offer the .450 Marlin in the Win. M70, Ruger M77 or Rem. M700 barreled actions or a complete rifle for an additional $350.00. I choose the M70 barreled action for my rifle and have never regretted it. Also point of note is Charlie Sisk is building rifles chambered for the .450 Marlin. Rumor has it that Ruger is considering chambering their M77 and No.1 for the Marlin round. It looks like the .450 Marlin is going to be a slow bloomer but bloom it is doing. Lawdog

sure..

get a safari in 458 winmag
cut .5" off the brass...

POOOF!!
there it is...

or, get a supershadow in 300 wsm...
rebarrel to 458x2"
cheap brass forever

total cost...
750

jeffe

R-West,

I had one of Jim Busha's .450 Heavy Express rifles in for testing in '02, it was built on a Ruger M77 short action. If you think .450 "WSM" you will get the idea of the cartridge: it is based on a rimless version of the .348 Winchester.

At any rate the M70 rifle is an eight pound, short-action rifle, where the others in that group run 7 pounds. It sounds like the extra weight is in the barrel, and it will be "weight forward" handling.

I have trouble understanding what a short action buys you in a rifle of this bore size anyway.

jim dodd

Lawdog,

What is "Clark's"? Do they have a website?

Gents,

John Noveske has developed the 458 Noveske. It's the WSM case shortened to a little over 2 inches, and opened up to 458. The neck, to me at least, is a little long. Could have left another 2/10" of neck and had a little more powder space, but it's his round and a good one at that.

He is still running tests with loads. The last group he shot was with 300 grainers and he was getting 2600 plus. I'm still waiting for him to try some 500 grainers and see if he can get 2150 without pressure problems. By the way, these loads are out of a 16 1/4" barrel.

One other thing, they are making dies for this round and can be purchased under the 458 Noveske name.

He can also build you a gun with this caliber.

I'm waiting a bit more and see how the tests go with the 500 grainers.

Roger QSL

Check cartridges of the world for the 458x2 American and the 1.5. My American is very sweet in woods with a 400 gr.
Frank

Just talked to Clark's Custom Guns http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/products.htm this morning. They aren't doing the 450/M70 any more

R-WEST

Roger,

The .450 Heavy Express (2.06" case) gets 2,110 fps MV with a 500 grain bullet. The .450 Heavy EXpress (2.25" case) gets 2,210 fps.

These are 24" barrels. The shoulders on these are 46 degrees.

Has Mr. Noveske done any pressure testing?

jim

My partner converted a SS Winchester short action and barrelled 450 Marlin. He loves it. He has had a detached retina in the past and we were trying to find a big bore caliber that he could shoot. We tried the 404 Jeffery and it is still more than he should shoot. We built the 450 Marlin and it does seem to work well. He shot a bison in Texas on a cull hunt. 400 gr. Barnes X and it shot two thirds of the way through the buffalo. Down with one shot. This is a great round for a bolt gun as it can be loaded up a bit.

I have a 450 Marlin built on a Rem 700 SA in a Bansner stock and it is a real "thumper"...on both ends. I haven't shot anything with it but it sure does bust up rocks in a big way. My barrel is 22" long and 2500 fps with the 300gr Nosler Partition is not a problem....my rifle is fairly light so recoil at that level is stout...at least for me.

The one nice thing about loading for the 450 in a bolt-action Remington with the 2.8" magazine is it's almost impossible to seat a bullet on enough of any appropriate powder to give you pressure problems.

I love it with cast bullets at modest speeds.....cheap and fun.

With respect to the long neck with the 458 WSM .... I would guess it would come in handy using cast bullets.

Heck, just rebarrel a 350 Rem Mag and let the 450 out to 2.8 inches COL. This gains you 10 grs of case capacity. Most 350 grainers will have the same case capacity as the 300s do when the 300s are held to 2.550 COL.

Even without a pressure increase this means that the 350s can clock 2400 fps with AA2230 in a 19 inch bbl. Pretty handy in a little Scout Rifle at 4550 FPE with an OK 250 yd trajectory..

Jim,

If I'm not mistaken, the 450 Heavy Express is the 450 Alaskan with the rim turned off. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I shot the Alaskan with 400 grainers at 2150 with no problems, so the 458 Noveske in a bolt gun should do better as the case has about the same volume as the AK.

I don't think John has done any pressure testing other than the old stand by visuals.

I'm waiting for his testing of the 500 grainers to see if 2150 can be done in his round. You can purchase dies for his case. I will find out what manufacturer is making them if your interested. I will also ask him to post here again at AR. He will be doing guns for the 458/Noveske as he is a gunsmith.

I was going to try and do a shortened 416 Rigby to 458 but will give him more time. Nice to have dies available.

Roger QSL

The 458 NOVESKE (WSM) has shown me what I want to see. I wanted a short, light, small, and powerful rifle. Unless the 416 or 460 wby brass is used as a base, this is about as much FPE as can be had in a 2.85" SA bolt gun. There are others, but this is easy. I just blow out 300 WSM brass. The rifle has a 16.25" 14" Twist PAC-NOR barrel. I built the first one on a Winchester M-70 Classic. The rifle weighs 6.5 lbs with open sights. Here is a little load data I have. The 20" barrel will certianly give better velocities.

300 Gr. Barnes XFB 68.5 gr IMR 4198 2612 fps (not max)
300 Gr. Nosler Partition IMR 4198 2578 fps (max)
350 Gr. HDY FP 62 Gr IMR 4198 2360 fps (max)
400 Gr. Barnes Original SSP 73 gr WC-844 (h-335) 2099 fps (max)

I have found Quickload to be very accurate in predicting the results I have obtained. I have not measured the chamber pressure, and do not plan on it. The exact number dosen't really matter to me. Quickload says it is about 55,000. The quickload data was so close with everything else, I figure it is somewhere around what it says it is. The dies are avalible from Hornady, 800-338-3220, ask for Lonnie. They are called the 458 Noveske. The case is about 2.10" long, and the neck is about .400" long. I could have moved the shoulder out more, but I feel that the .400" neck is proportionaly and aesthetically pleasing. Also, It just so happens that it is achieved using the same headspacing as the 300 WSM. That makes fireforming simple. And, yes it gives room for cast bullets. I was going to name it the 458 x 300 WSM, then Lonnie at HDY convinced me to put my name on it. I have not submitted the design to SAMMI. I just built another one on a Rem 660. It's barrel is slightly heavier, but still 16.25" long. The 660 will be under 35" OAL when finished. The barreled action is off at McMillan right now getting a Model Seven stock put on. In 10 weeks or so, I ought to have it back.

Photo Gallery

John...any word on your friends 416/300wsm?

My friend's 416 barrel is sitting there doing nothing. His wife got on him about a new car, so this project is not going to happen for a while. I have the reamer(s). He will be getting the 458 on the Winchester action. Then we can hunt with the same ammo. He might rebarrel it with the 416 down the road.

John,

I like the looks of your rifle.

Jim Busha used .4" necks on his .458 cartridges as well. I expect yours and his are very similar.

Do you have a close-up of the rear sight details?

My wife has relatives in Glendale, OR so next trip up that way I will plan to look you up.

jim

The rear sight is on my site's photo gallery. You click the thumbnail to see the rest of the pics. It is an XS ghost ring with some torx screws on it instead of the short set screws it comes with. Give me a call when you're in the area, we'll go shoot it.

The rifle weighs 6.5 lbs with open sights
400 Gr. Barnes Original SSP 73 gr WC-844 (h-335) 2099 fps (max)
I imagine that gets your attention when you let one off

Nice looking round. What do you think the velocity would be in a 20 incher? Another 100 FPS or so?

R-WEST

I'm not really sure, I think 100 fps is on the low side of what added velocity you would get. I would look at 458 Win Mag data and figure it would be pretty close. This case holds only 1 grain less water than the 458 Win Mag. Quickload is on the way, when I run some numbers, I'll try to post them.

If you can get 2150 f/s out of one of the 450 Marlin rounds and a 500 gr. bullet without pressure problems, why can that not be easily achieved out of the 458 Win Mag.?

lb404 ----- did I miss something? I don't see the post that claims 2150 fps with a 500gr bullet out of a 450 Marlin and unless you had a long magazine and much longer barrel you will be pushing to get that with a 400gr bullet in the 450 Marlin. The wildcat that JN is talking about is the 300wsm necked up --- a horse of a different color all together.

Clark Custom Guns



Great outfit and great work. To bad they discounted their offer. You can go to Charlie Sisk and he is building them. Lawdog

ib404,
I'm in the same ball game as Bill. Don't know where you are getting 2150 from the 450 Marlin with a 500 grain load.

The 458x2 is about the same as the 450 Marlin, but the Marlin holds less powder, so getting that kind of performance isn't correct.

From what I've read, 1800 would be pushing the Marling with a 500 grain slug, even with seating the slug way out.

Check the specs, John's case has more volume and if the length of the 500's don't pose problems, 2150 may work. I believe he is trying to keep the oal such so short actions can be utilized.

When he finally gets to testing 500's, we will see.

As I mentioned earlier, loosing part of the long neck on his round and blowing out this portion, would give a little more space in the case. Maybe just enough to get the 2150 I would like to see.

Using the 416 Rigby or the 338 Lapua case shortened to 2.1 inches would easily accomplish this. The Lapua might be the best solution as Lapua brass seems to be a little cheaper.

Roger QSL