That would only gain you about 10 gr H2O more with the 375 Wby...a 375 RUM would get you 20 gr more, basically within ~3.60" COAL, and the 378 Wby would get you another ~16 gr H2O still...gets into the reality thing..."what the he** am I doing".

If you really want seriously high BC's with bullet weights in the 240-300 wt range and velocities above 3000fs you need to drop back a few calibers and go to target bullets which gets into the bullet arguments.

Long range shooting, 4-500 yds and beyond is a whole 'nuther world...thinking about all the nuances certainly keeps a mind occupied...and the sageratz jumping.

Now if you REALLY want high BC's, you gotta jump up to the 50 cals and really BIG cases. Hahahahahahahahaha

Luck

I am a die hard .375H&H shooter. My longest range kill ever on an elk was at a lazed 443 Yards. I was shooting one of the old Barnes X 270 gr bullets. They had a BC of .505.

It was a fairly large bodied bull and was quartering away. I hit him behind the last rib and the bullet exited the point of the off shoulder. Try that with a .30-06!

The TSX is a wonderful bullet and I've killed a pile of game with it, HOWEVER Barnes totally screwed the pooch with the aerodynamics on that bullet. It's got the same BC as some round nose bullets. I am going to give the TTSX 250 gr bullet a try this year.

I keep hoping that Hornandy will come out with a 270 gr IB with a BC of about .525 in a .375 diameter.

The thing I really like about my short barreled .375 in elk country is that I can reach out and touch one at longish range but where it also shines in the dark timber. I've popped a couple of fat cows during late season as they bust out of the timber at close range. As long as you've got an angle to the boiler room the ole H&h will drive a bullet through as much elk as you need it to get a round parked there. Oh and the .375 with hard bullets do very minimal meat damage too.

The .375H&H is hard to beat as an all around elk rifle.


HELLO HORNANDY!! ARE YOU LISTENING?

I've been beating myself to death to find a load for the 250 TTSX. Does anyone have one? I've got a great load for the 270 TSX, but would like the extra speed with the lighter bullet.

Carolina Man,
I have used the 300 gr. Sierra on ocassion in my 375 H&H with good results, in fact I shot a buffal with that load on one ocassion and I have seen it used on Lion..It worked rather well.

I have come to the conclusion the there is no such thing as bullet failure on thin skinned game up to Eland with 300 grs of bullet at 2500 FPS or more. If is blows up it kills like lightening scattering 300 grs. of particles throughout the soft inside tissue, and if it expands perfectly, well it expands perfectly and kills the game animal..

Those beautiful Sierras hold up well at extended ranges and the expand perfectly way out yonder. The 250 gr. .375 Sierras are the darlings of our local big bore elk hunters. apparantly they work great..

I think the Sierra game King and Pro Hunter bullets are a best-kept secret. They tend to be accurate, have a good ballistic profile, and are cheap to boot!

Hi,

I use my .375 M70 Pre-64 since 1992 for Red Deer around here, the Andes foothills. Long shoots are a possibility. I used Hornady 270 Spire Points, old BarnesX 250 grs, Nosler Partition 260 grs, and the las year the Nosler Accubond 260 grs. All are very good long range (300-400 meters) .375 bullets. If you know how to shoot and KNOW the trayectory path. But if I must pick only one it would be the Nosler Accubond. I think this is the best long range .375 H&H bullets for Big Red Deer/Elk and simmilar big game. Can be loaded to 2850 f/s for a trayectory that matches the 165 grs in a .30-06, the 225 grs in a .338 Win or, almost, the 180 grs in a .300 Win.
And expand at very low velocity.

Regards

PH

I am a big 375 H&H fan, but my personal favorite elk rifles today are my old 300 H&H with 200 gr. Nosler partitions at 3000 FPS and my .338 Win. with 210 Noslers at 3004 FPS but only when I am hunting certain areas where shots tend to be long..Much of the best hunting for elk in Idaho is in some pretty nasty thick stuff where the big bulls hide out after the first shot of the season is fired..Here I want my 338 loaded with 300 gr. woodleighs or my 375 loaded with 300 or 350 gr. RN Woodleighs.

So based on that I am pretty sure the .338 Win is the best all around elk rifle there is..

Ray: I just don't see how you can get 3000 fps out of a 300 H&H with a 200gr bullet. I'm not sayin it's not true mind you, but in my experience, I've nver been able to do it. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Ray: I just don't see how you can get 3000 fps out of a 300 H&H with a 200gr bullet. I'm not sayin it's not true mind you, but in my experience, I've nver been able to do it. jorge

Short answer - he can't.

30 inch barrel and copious amounts of H1000 will probably achieve such velocities Ray speaks of,......But this has gotten off subject of the original poster.

Lets bring the op subject back. Cutting Edge Bullets...the makers of Michael458's BBW#13 Solids makes some fantastic .375 bullets all the way up to 350+grains. These are specialty long range bullets that I have not heard anything bad about. They were probably intended for the 375Cheytac-a monster of a 375 ctg. Barrel life??????

quote:

Originally posted by CAS II:
The biggest obstacle to using a .375 of any flavor for long range is the lack of bullets with a high BC.

Sure, you can do it, but it would be akin to driving a Hummer in the Indy 500.

Cutting Edge makes bullets up to 352 grains with BC .88-.90. 1-11 twist and 2900fps @muzzle necessary. Bullets are out there....

This is a 600 yd target shot a couple of weeks ago with 375 HH and the 270 gr Cutting Edge BBW#13 NonCon, with added hi BC Tip.



Michael

quote:

Originally posted by drewhenrytnt:
30 inch barrel and copious amounts of H1000 will probably achieve such velocities Ray speaks of,......But this has gotten off subject of the original poster.

I seriously doubt you could get enough H1000 in the case to produce pressures high enough to realize anywhere near 3000 fps.

quote:

Originally posted by drewhenrytnt:

quote:

Originally posted by CAS II:
The biggest obstacle to using a .375 of any flavor for long range is the lack of bullets with a high BC.

Sure, you can do it, but it would be akin to driving a Hummer in the Indy 500.

Cutting Edge makes bullets up to 352 grains with BC .88-.90. 1-11 twist and 2900fps @muzzle necessary. Bullets are out there....

So your argument is that there is but a single option available, and that makes the 375 H&H a viable long range cartridge? I guess if you are lucky enough that your rifle likes the single available bullet, you are correct.

Of course, the relative absence of high BC .375 bullets in the marketplace would lead most to conclude that it isn't a round well suited to long range duty.

Even if we grant that the rifle loves the single available bullet, you still have some significant recoil to deal with. Recoil will be somewhere around 42 ft/lbs, which places it squarely in the realm of the 338 Lapua mag. That takes some serious practice and/or recoil mitigation (brake or rifle weight).

Will a 375 take any game in North America at 300, 350, and 400 yards? Sure, but so will a 25-06. If one is going to build/acquire a long range rifle, the 375 H&H is a poor choice.

quote:

Originally posted by CAS II:
Even if we grant that the rifle loves the single available bullet, you still have some significant recoil to deal with. Recoil will be somewhere around 42 ft/lbs, which places it squarely in the realm of the 338 Lapua mag. That takes some serious practice and/or recoil mitigation (brake or rifle weight).

42 ft/lbs isn't significant in big bores.. 80.. sure, that's something to pay attention to .. but 42? sure, its a bunch for a medium ..

Did I say it was significant for big bores? Were we not talking long range shooting? Is it your contention that recoil is not a factor in long range shooting? If recoil is not a factor, why do 50 BMG rifles almost universally have brakes?

quote:

Originally posted by CAS II:
Did I say it was significant for big bores?

in context, yeah, you did. this is the bog bore forum...

quote:

Originally posted by CAS II:


Were we not talking long range shooting?

in big bores, right?

quote:

Originally posted by CAS II:

Is it your contention that recoil is not a factor in long range shooting?

nope.. that's your strawman, do with it what you want

quote:

Originally posted by CAS II:

If recoil is not a factor, why do 50 BMG rifles almost universally have brakes?

i dunno, why do you think recoil isn't a factor? that's your strawman arguement.

at 300-350 yards, hardly "long range" for the logn range forum, a 375 will do the job, nicely, if the shooter trains for it.


as for 3000 fps with a 200gr. repeat, TWO HUNDRED grain bullet, from a 375? .. i don't recall seeing a 200gr partition.. but there's quite a few loads of less than 236gr bullets going faster than 300 fps on ammoguide.. and i didn't post a single one of them.

heck, even those "wild and crazy guys" over at hodgdon list 200gr bullets WAY over 3000fps (be certain to look at the maximum load section before correcting me)

with a 300 gr bullet? not possible.. but before one calls a man a liar, its always a good idea to listen/read what he said. ray said 200gr partition .. might have misremmered which bullet make, but 200gr bullet sure can go over 3000 fps in PUBLISHED load data.

jut saying

Ray was referring to the 300H&H. I have found data in 3 load manuals showing 2800+ in a 24in barrel. With a 26in+ it is doable.

Sierra has made a 300grBTSP for many years.

Do your research before spouting BS about bullet availabilities.

The original poster is asking about 300-350yds. Totally doable with the 375H&H, no special bullets required. They are available however! CEB, Sierra, Speer, and Hornady make BTSpitzer profiles in .375H&H

As for recoil, I have shot most factory loads available in .375H&H prone without difficulty.

Muzzle brakes, merc tubes, and properly designed stock will do amazing things.

My 375 is bone stock however........

thanks for the correction, andy. 300 hh with 200gr pill would be tough.

The old or original Barnes bullets were very irratic in rifles . But the TSX will drive tacks. My Kimber Caprivi will shoot 5 shots all touching one hole off the bench at 100yds.

Mike TSX 300gr.
Nyasa wildebeast 300yd head shot Had his head sticking out from behind the tree in background. Shot entered from left to right.

Jorge,
I can get 3000 FPS out of my 26 inch pre 64 mod 70. very easily and with very mild pressures but only with my still large supply of old surplus 4831 sometimes called 4350 DATA and thats the stuff that O'Connor got 3200 FPS out of his 22" 270s...I purchased 150 lbs. of the stuff in a SS canister in a thick wooden box marked US Army from an old Twin Falls Gunsmith and it was stil fresh fresh..

I think the same could be down with the old Norma MRP or so I have been told by many 300 H&H aficiandos.

As to CAS 11's uneducated remark I would suggest he check his reloading manuals before offering such positive opinnions that I might add were not nearly as polite as your questioning, which I appreciated..

Barnes Manual lists the 200 gr. bullet at 2933 FPS in a "24 inch barrel"; Alliant lists 2935 FPS in a "24 inch barrel" and at 52,200 CUP; Nosler at 2938 FPS..

So as you can see my 26 inch barrel will give me 3000 FPS in a number of powders if the 25 FPS per inch rule applies and it should as I am very conservative at that number..

Also take into consideration that all reloading manuals leave themselves a lot of room to prevent frivolous law suits and I have never seen a loading manual that I could not increas powder grs by a grain or two and many time more..I have gotten better than 3000 FPS but my load is 3000 FPS and cases last about 12 to 14 loading and take 4 to 6 trims as the cases do crawl forward in that old dog, even when sized on the shoulder.

And BTW, my chronograph is pretty accurate and I shoot 10 and take out the high and Low..

Most folks don't know much about that old 300 H&H and have not taken the time to wring it out, and like CAS 11, they read something in some rag and then expound on that wrong information without any first hand knowledge.

IMO barring the RUM and its ilk, the 300 H&H will come closer to the 300 WBY than most of todays 300s.. I can make it cook far better than my sons 300 Win. or my old 30-338 all good caliber and all close enough for hunting purposes.

If you are getting 3000 FPS with a 200 grain bullet in a 300 H&H, it sure as hell ain't at mild pressures for sure and for certian.

Ray,
Thanks for answering my questions about the Sierra 300 gr bullets. I will have to get some and try them out in my rifle. And thanks for including your info on the 300 H&H as well. Another of my favorite calbers.

quote:

If you are getting 3000 FPS with a 200 grain bullet in a 300 H&H, it sure as hell ain't at mild pressures for sure and for certian.

One thing I have noticed, and Mr. Atkinson is a lot more experienced than I am, but the loads and loading manuals, pre the days of frivilous law suits listed combinations that are lot different than todays.

I feel that Mr. Atkinson knows from whence he speaks.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

If you are getting 3000 FPS with a 200 grain bullet in a 300 H&H, it sure as hell ain't at mild pressures for sure and for certian.

One thing I have noticed, and Mr. Atkinson is a lot more experienced than I am, but the loads and loading manuals, pre the days of frivilous law suits listed combinations that are lot different than todays.

I feel that Mr. Atkinson knows from whence he speaks.

Yes they did and many developed the data without pressure testing equipment. Todays PSI pressure testing equipment is more accurate than the old Copper Crusher units of yester year.

Any time the speed is above the norm for the powder capacity of the cartridge one sure as hell is not achieving the speeds at "mild" pressure as Ray claims and that is a fact. To believe other wise is naive at best

After 24 inches of barrel length, approximately how many FPS are gained per inch of barrel length without an increase in pressure?

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
After 24 inches of barrel length, approximately how many FPS are gained per inch of barrel length without an increase in pressure?

That would depend on the individual barrel and chamber. I have seen shorter barrels faster with the same ammo on the same day of 2 rifles in the same chambering

Lets put it this way. I use 20 to 30 year old load formulas for my rifles with no problems.

In checking more up to date manuals, because of fear of litigation, there is a lot of discrepincy between the older manuals and the newer manuals with loads from the older manuals being well above the maximum loadings listed in the newer manuals.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Lets put it this way. I use 20 to 30 year old load formulas for my rifles with no problems.

In checking more up to date manuals, because of fear of litigation, there is a lot of discrepincy between the older manuals and the newer manuals with loads from the older manuals being well above the maximum loadings listed in the newer manuals.

If you think that todays manuels are below SAAMI presures then you are wrong

You seem to ignore the fact that many of the older manuels worked up their data without pressure testing equipment

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Lets put it this way. I use 20 to 30 year old load formulas for my rifles with no problems.

I have loaded and shot loads that were above SAAMI max without incident, but that does not make it a wise thing to do

I think I will put my faith in Mr. Atkinson's and my own experience Thank You very much.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
I think I will put my faith in Mr. Atkinson's and my own experience Thank You very much.

Pressure testing equipment don't lie, and in your experience you have tested those loads, right??

I have been using those loads in vrious calibes and brands of rifles for 40+ years without any problems.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
I have been using those loads in vrious calibes and brands of rifles for 40+ years without any problems.

Your point, assuming you have one?

My point is, due to concerns over possible litigation over the data in their books, the bullet and powder manufacturers have dropped their load tables.

In some instances, starting loads several years back were at or above listed maximum loads today.

Cartridge shape also has to be taken into consideration, long sloping minimal shoulder cases are not going to build up pressure as fast or to the same levels as cases with sharp shoulders.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
My point is, due to concerns over possible litigation over the data in their books, the bullet and powder manufacturers have dropped their load tables.

In some instances, starting loads several years back were at or above listed maximum loads today.

Cartridge shape also has to be taken into consideration, long sloping minimal shoulder cases are not going to build up pressure as fast or to the same levels as cases with sharp shoulders.

Again this is because of better pressure testiung equipment. Also powder burn rates don't remain the same from batch to batch much less over 20 to 30 years.

The fact is that many of the 30 year old data was NEVER EVER PRESSURE TESTED and your assumption is WRONG


A long sloping shoulder isn'tgoing tobuild up pressure as fast?? Where is the proof for this one?? Assuming you are right, peak pressure is peak pressure and a 200 grain bullet at 300 FPS from a cartridge with less case capacity than a 300 Win is NOT MILD PRESSURE as Ray claims and that is a fact

I won't get in a pissin contest with you JWP but I have been shooting/loading the 300 H&H for many years and I suggest to you that if most of the manuals quote about 2950, some more,some a tad less, and all at 52,200 CUP or less, and all with 24 inch barrels, and they quote a working max for a 300 H&H not to exceed 54,000 CUP, surely you can understand that 3000 is easily doable for goodness sakes with 2 inches more barrel, an old and better powder, and apparantly with some modern powders, and btw I have an extra 1800 cup to use up if the manulas are correct. I think 12 to 14 reloads is a pretty good indication of a relitively mild and by mild I mean safe load.

It would seem to me than any rational thinking persom would be able to compute that as a doable option, if one considers all the FACTS, and if one is not just being confrontational.

Seems Woodleigh has noticed a nich for long range .375"!

They offer a 350 grain VLD!!!