I spent 6 hrs at a gun show in Orlando. There were thousands of people and hundreds of dealers.

I saw one big bore - 375 H&H Ruger RSM. That is it.

Barely saw any hunting rifles or anything with wood on it.

Was all tactical and handguns and survivalist stuff.

Does anyone hunt anymore ? No optics other than the military stuff (and the very low end of that - chinese knock offs ).

Ammo was a joke - 3 boxes of 375 H&H and they were 30-40 years old.

I would not step in a florida public hunting area - the public hunting crowd would terrify me running around with ar and ak platform guns. I have a lot of AR and AK platform guns and hunt with a Larue 308 - but not anywhere around the florida gun show crowd. It just seemed that people were so distanced from hunting - they were just tactical gun crowd. Look at hunting season and hunting areas as a place to shoot guns.

Where are all these gun buyers shooting their guns - I am a member of one of the very few rifle range in central florida - don't see a lot of people there and florida does not have a lot of open public land to go shoot on.

If this is the gun buying crowd - big bores and other fine (anything with wood and no picataney rails) hunting rifles will be something we will only see at dsc and sci.

I did meet one very lonley guy selling fishing trips to columbia - did not seem a bad deal for $3K.

Mike

Also I don't get the whole 50 cal thing. I don't think there is more than one or two ranges in florida where you can shoot a 50 cal.

Who is buying all these 50 cal rifles and ammo if you have to drive 250 miles to shoot it.

Everybody trading 22 ammo - the survivalist finally got their 22 ammo as currency theory working.

Dealer were buying ammo at 7-8 cents around and selling at 10 cents. This is same ammo that walmart sells for at 3-4 cents around. One can actually wait in line at walmart when the truck gets in buy what ammo you can get and go to a gun show and sell it to a dealer for 7-8 cents or attendee for 10 cents a round. Who the hell is banning 22 ammo.

Lots of reloading supplies for sale - but very few reloading tools.

No 375 ruger ammo !!!

Mike

I read an article where they grouped people into two categories:

The Elmer Fuds - like you and me

The Tac-Tards - what you describe in your summary above, but apply all of it hunting - not actual tactical situations whether it be in real life or in competition. Like my buddy who has a customer synthetic rifle with a 26" bull barrel, suppressor, bipod, and 56mm giant scope as his everyday hunting rifle. Weights more than a 600 NE! Or his buddy that hunts with a 338 Lapua tactical rifle.

Both groups are suspicious of the other.

I find it easy to move between the two groups.

I went to the range this week and Holy Cow, there were only two or three evil black rifles. The rest were hunting rifles (It's hunting season in Alaska). Usually the hunting, vintage and accuracy crowd is outnumbered 10 to 2 in favor of ARs, AKs, SKSs, and tactical rifle/shotguns on the line. A few weeks ago I saw some skinny dude with a stringy mullet that was wearing a chest plate rig and was shooting a SCAR (not a cheap gun by any means). For a second I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he could have been a front line door kicker. Negative. Skinny, no muscle tone, no light behind the eyes - just a gamer type with store bought Call of Duty gear and an expensive gun. Ridiculous. I kept my eye on him and his fat buddy.

Well, shit, after a three year .22 drought, I,ve pretty much lost faith in the .22 coming back. Scalpers, hacks, whatever. Couple little .22 rifles going up for sale, keep the revolver.
Centerfire, I can reload. Few recurves and a long bow, the reload is real quick and easy.
Middle age dude myself, find I,m starting to really appreciate light rifles more and more as time goes by..

quote:

posted document.write('<nobr>'+ myTimeZone('Sat, 15 Aug 2015 20:06:11 GMT-0700', '16 August 2015 08:06')+'</nobr>');16 August 2015 08:0616 August 2015 08:06I spent 6 hrs at a gun show in Orlando. There were thousands of people and hundreds of dealers. I saw one big bore - 375 H&H Ruger RSM. That is it. Barely saw any hunting rifles or anything with wood on it. Was all tactical and handguns and survivalist stuff.

Sign of the times.

I don't go to public ranges no need to I live on my range.

People are worried.

Plus all the zombie films.

Plus when the government talks about banning something people buy it.

More people live in cities than hunt now days.

3 gun matches.

and others.

This is one of the cycles. We have swung back to tactical rifles and gear. It will swing back in a few years under a gun friendly president

It's all about marketing and sales

I'm in florida too and I can't stand going to gun shows. Only good thing I've ever acquired from a gun show was some 375 ammo and brass for a song. Other than that is mostly clapped out pieces of junk that are way over priced or ar's Ak's sks's ect. I was at my local show and a while back and seen a push feed model 70 in 458wm that was in terrible terrible shape and the guy wanted $800. It had rust everywhere and the stock was beat to hell. Don't even get me started on all the droves of tacticool people walking around or the 10c a round 22 ammo.

Its not traditional gun (if hunting rifles and shotguns have become that) versus tactical military stuff.

I own both - I think my Larue us a great rifle on par with any hunting rifle I own in balance accuracy feel.

The issue is that for a vast majority of gun buyers today at least in Florida hunting and guns are not even in the same area code.

Central florida I agree is a little strange. Not a lot of public or private hunting and minimal shooting ranges for rifles. In the majority of the transplanted and even now local population hunting has no social and cultural context.

Still these guns shows are not small and the guns sold are significant in size. Some very large national gun sellers at these shows selling 1000s of guns per show.

As we congregate at DSC or SCI to see and buy our guns - we are getting to be a smaller and smaller minority of gun owners.

For the tactical crowd in florida I just want to know where these guns are being shot. One old timer at the gun show told me its like rims on used cars. Everyone is spending money on stuff that is barely used or totally mis matched like a $2k-$3K ar platform rifle with a $100-$200 knock off tactical scope.

Mike

I no longer attend gun shows ...... and mightily miss how they were in the 60's. I buy everything online....EVERYTHING.

Just a 1ittle story to relate from an event I got to witness peripherally back earlier this year.

My boss's son has gotten interested in the Tactical arms and has become acquainted with several others across the state that share the interest.

Because we do have the properties that we do various hunts on, the group booked a weekend to come out and do their thing. My only real involvement was making sure feeders were filled and operating.

The weekend of their "hunt", we had one of our few snow spells.

There were 14 or 16 of these folks and they all were using or having fun with the various armament they brought.

It ranged from various semi-auto pistols of flavors, I do not recall seeing a single revolver of any flavor, all the way up to one or two .50 caliber custom rifles.

On one afternoon the group was set up on a ridge overlooking a long draw that bisects a big chunk of the 680 acres the property covers.

They had used 4 wheelers to set up a target range out to 800 yards and were simply having a ball trying out their various guns. They were hunting pigs at night, full thermal optics and all.

That afternoon myself, my boss and his daughter and son-in-law got the chance to fire a full auto .30-06 machine that was mounted on a metal frame.

In talking to one of the organizers of the event my boss found out that the estimate of the total price of all the equipment, guns-optics was upwards of $300,000.00.

Those folks enjoyed themselves, only got one pig, but are making plans for another outing or two in the future.

I guess for them being able to run around for a few days without being looked at sideways or having local LEO's getting spooky felt pretty good.

Beretta The Florida deer hunters are in south and central Georgia they have some large properties leased . That said some are the tactical crowd that come here to empty auto clips, but many are serious hunters. It amazes me just how many people there are in Florida for its size.Don't get me wrong I love The Sunshine state can't wait to get back for the fishing.

I have noticed the same split at gun shops here in Alaska. there are only 2 or 3 of us over 50 guys admiring the wood stock classics for every 10 under 50 crowd drooling over the tactical gear.
The good news is that we are all still buying and shooting guns.

For me, all of the fun of shooting full automatic weapons was when someone else was paying for the ammunition, as here in the Republic of Vietnam, 1965. The M1A1 Thompson was not issue, but bartered for locally.

Just seeing the disconnect between hunters and hunting firearms and gun buyers today, especially new ones, makes me want to seriously consider how much money I spend on my type of guns.

I have more guns and ammo than I can shoot in a lifetime. All this tactical stuff will be replaced with new generation of guns - the next best thing.

Hunting rifles that are now collectibles like some old sako might find no new buyers in 20 years.

I still think some military collectibles might have value. But I saw more German k-98 sniper rifles at the gun show than probably the german army had issued - frauds all over the place.

Who will buy all these safari rifles and newer double rifles - especially if African hunting shrinks or becomes more preserve hunting.

I for one will continue to upgrade my existing portfolio by sending stuff to Wayne at ahr to get customized. But I am not spending a lot of $$ buying higher end hunting rifles (being left handed helps in that)

Seems like the average gun buyer is no longer connected to hunting. See the same thing at Walmart nation largest gun seller - ar and very low end rifles - 300-400 packages

I may spend my $$ on optics - better glass definitely helps me shoot better.

Mike

I say old bean, I was so alarmed my monocle popped out!

I agree that I have seen way to much tactical gear at recent gun shows but there are still some gems to be found. I was at a gun show last year about this time and picked up a CZ 550 416 Rigby with European hogsback for $700. The owner had one of the vendors selling it for him. He shot 9 factory loads and decided it kicked to hard. No one was interested in a big bore so I got it cheap with 11 loaded rounds and 9 empties. The vendor even sold me reloading dies for $30.

I hate to admit getting older but the younger crowd just doesn't appreciate quality firearms. They want the cheapest gun that goes bang and they want it to look futuristic. I cannot blame the manufacturers for providing what the markets demand but I do lament the departure from nice bolt action hunting rifles.

I also have seen far to many bozos at the range with no shooting skills just blazing away thinking they are impressive as hell with a black rifle. I have tried to instill a better mentality in my son and I have even seen him shaking his head at some of these clowns. I hope Jeffeosso is right.

quote:

Originally posted by Sid-:
I hate to admit getting older but the younger crowd just doesn't appreciate quality firearms. They want the cheapest gun that goes bang and they want it to look futuristic. I cannot blame the manufacturers for providing what the markets demand but I do lament the departure from nice bolt action hunting rifles.

Sid,

I see a lot of younger guys who appreciate quality guns but they are different from the guns that we shoot. A lot of the younger guys here spending $2,000 - $3,000 for factory black guns or building them with very expensive parts.

It's just a different interpretation of quality.

As long as they shoot and stand up for their rights, I can appreciate the younger generation.

If there is an up side to the new focus on tactical rifles it is that as the older generation passes on many older, high grade guns start showing up on the market at prices a lot more reasonable than thery were a decade ago.

With out CBP (cheap black plastic) there would be no gun shows. I see the same guys selling the same case of Mosins and the same Yugo Mausers at every show besides the dozens of AR guys.

But there are a few dealers the have hunting and a few custom rifles and the reloading supply guys do go to the shows.

I look at a gun show like a kid looks at a day at the amusement park.

Im certainly much younger in age than the average AR member and will have to say, Id trade a dozen tactical type rifles for one classic, or classic styled bolt action rifle. I also certainly agree that gun owners should stick together in general, but the divide between real hunting rifles and tactical platforms is widening. I certainly don't know many people my age interested in fine hunting rifles. Although as of now I may not be able to afford any true customs, I certainly will continue to lust over some of the fine examples I get to see on a regular basis here. I also must say, as long as any rifle is accurate and reliable, there's no flies on it in my opinion. I own my fair share of production grade rifles and as long as they are accurate and reliable they will continue to have a spot in my collection.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
If there is an up side to the new focus on tactical rifles it is that as the older generation passes on many older, high grade guns start showing up on the market at prices a lot more reasonable than thery were a decade ago.

+1

Will be a good market for a young budding gun collector. Same time right now it is not a great market to be investing in high end rifles unless one is hunting with them.

I have no issues with people buying tactical stuff or gun shows being full of tactical stuff. It just seems like the hunting rifle and hunting world is getting smaller and smaller relative to the gun world. I need to go to DSC every year just to see guns and optics more than book hunts and also make fun of Biebs.

The 50 cal stuff makes little sense to me especially in fla. Too damn flat to shoot stuff that travels for miles and the ranges don't allow 50 cal.

Also interesting was a booth that normally buys ivory was no longer purchasing ivory.

Mike

I'm very much a wood and blued guy, with the exception of two rifles I have that are my foul weather (Alaska) rifles. I'm not likely to bring a lovely Merkel K1 to Alaska on a goat hunt. On the other hand I was quite happy to scratch that rifle up over 10 days hunting Africa and plains game. Go figure.

This weekend I found a free Sunday and headed to the range. Of the 60 or so shooting lanes, at least 45 of them were all about the AR's and AK's. Of the remaining few, a couple held heavy bolt rifles in plastic stocks and maybe 7 had actual wood/blued rifles.

It used to bother me quite a bit to see all the black rifles at the range. Now I'm just glad to see anyone enjoying some shooting in todays day and age.

I have given up on gunshows. Once upon a time, they were the place for bargains, difficult to find items, stuff your local dealer didn't carry, and some networking.

Now days, it seems like it's a venue for scalpers, thieves, and bullshitters.. Almost everything I see at a show, I can get online cheaper, even including the shipping in most cases.

I haven't been to a show now in over a year, and there are a lot of them close to me, and I have no plans on going to another anytime soon..

For what I spend to get there and get in, my local dealer is looking more and more attractive.

quote:

Originally posted by Timan:
Let's get it straight right now. The Baby boomer generation was able to afford 10 times what current can, this goes for everything, rifles included, get used to it. and it aint comin back so whaaa Haaa .

The baby boomer generation has had 60 years to make money. I imagine in another 60 years there will still be folks with money to spend on quality items as well.

Things had to go toward "black rifles". What else was there to sell once all the surplus pre-war Mausers, post-war Mausers, Mosin Nagants, Carcanos, Springfields, Enfields, 1917s, Hakims, FALs, M1s, surplus ammo, all the bayonets, leather tactical gear and surplus accessories dried up?

quote:

Originally posted by conifer:
I no longer attend gun shows ...... and mightily miss how they were in the 60's. I buy everything online....EVERYTHING.

Ever sense they allowed dealers at gun shows they have went down hill.

Gun shows suck! There generally sell a bunch of way over priced cheap stuff. It is sometimes possible to find something difficult to find.' Frankly , the patrons scare the hell out of me.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Gun shows suck! There generally sell a bunch of way over priced cheap stuff. It is sometimes possible to find something difficult to find.' Frankly , the patrons scare the hell out of me.

The patrons are scary in Orlando - its almost like a flea market. Need to go to DSC or SCI to see quality stuff in hunting rifles and shotguns.

THere are some guys who move alot of guns - especially handguns - I go to keep an eye on RGR and SWHC handgun sales.

Mike

I got to shop, with the (generally) vain hope that someone has a nice Mauser action or an OM 70 for sale.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
I spent 6 hrs at a gun show in Orlando. There were thousands of people and hundreds of dealers.

I saw one big bore - 375 H&H Ruger RSM. That is it.

Barely saw any hunting rifles or anything with wood on it.

Was all tactical and handguns and survivalist stuff.

Does anyone hunt anymore ? No optics other than the military stuff (and the very low end of that - chinese knock offs ).

Ammo was a joke - 3 boxes of 375 H&H and they were 30-40 years old.

I would not step in a florida public hunting area - the public hunting crowd would terrify me running around with ar and ak platform guns. I have a lot of AR and AK platform guns and hunt with a Larue 308 - but not anywhere around the florida gun show crowd. It just seemed that people were so distanced from hunting - they were just tactical gun crowd. Look at hunting season and hunting areas as a place to shoot guns.

Where are all these gun buyers shooting their guns - I am a member of one of the very few rifle range in central florida - don't see a lot of people there and florida does not have a lot of open public land to go shoot on.

If this is the gun buying crowd - big bores and other fine (anything with wood and no picataney rails) hunting rifles will be something we will only see at dsc and sci.

I did meet one very lonley guy selling fishing trips to columbia - did not seem a bad deal for $3K.

Mike

I agree with you entirely!

I have been to a few gun and hunting shows around here, and that is exactly the impression I got too.

I agree . Every time I go to a gun show anymore I'm surprised at how few hunting rifles there are. Lately I think if I really wanted to make money on a rifle I'd drag it behind my truck a few miles, then leave it outside a few weeks to rust then, take it to a gun show put a price double what you could buy it new for. That's what the guns at the shows in Michigan look like anyway.

It's been years since I attended a gun show.
The last one I went to had way too many non gun related booths & I found those manning their booths to be unfriendly & overpriced!
I found a LH model 70 in 06 that was rusty & in generally bad shape, guy wanted $800 & acted like he was doing me a favor by talking to me.
I see the tactical crowd as just a new generation wanting to do things differently from what we've done.
Being in north La. there are lots of places to shoot whatever you have.

I´m from northern Europe so I haven't any direct contact the problem you are talking about but I have one idea why it has happened so like you described:

Soldiers are always been kind of heroes for those other younger guys who can't/daren't to join them. So it's easy to judge; which kind of weapons the heroes use, so do "the wanna-bees" too.

The gun shows in the Minneapolis area have really turned to the tactical side as well. Certainly not as bad as you are seeing in Fla, but headed that way.
I go to half dozen shows a year and very rarely buy anything.
The Internet will be the drmise of gun shows in a few years.

I do not go anymore except to go with a clueless friend. He has his first gun for home protection. It is an AR scoped with something like a 12-30 power scope . He gets all wound up and wants to buy similar stupid things on sale at the shows . He needs serious help .

THE THING that bugs me about gun shows is that there are always as many "Militaria" dealers as actual "Gun Dealers".

And wouldn't you know they always have a big multi-table spread right inside the main entrance... and when a camera crew from the local TV station shows up that table provides ALL footage that makes it onto the air...

Which leads me to wonder just how mind bendingly stupid are the organizers of these shows are?

I'm not saying those vendors don't have a right to show and sell their table full of Hitler Youth daggers, SS arm bands and Nazi flags, I'm just wondering how ignorant they are of the image they are projecting to the public... that "image" affects all of us!

I don't personally own a Nazi flag, nor would I hang it on the wall of my den, but the idea the general public gets that the liberal media plays upon is that I not only do Own a Nazi flag
but I wave it at every public event while I display my Nazi tattoos (Which I also do not have) while threatening people with an MP40 or a Hitler youth dagger...


Political correctness is an insane idea, but the gross political insensitivity is nearly as bad...


Let those guys sell their repro Nazi crap, but for the sake of all of us and our freedoms have the brains to tell them they at the show they cannot have a big table up front and they will be placed in the back corner where they aren't the first (and often ONLY)thing a TV news crew sees before they flee in terror!

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
I spent 6 hrs at a gun show in Orlando. There were thousands of people and hundreds of dealers.

I saw one big bore - 375 H&H Ruger RSM. That is it.

Barely saw any hunting rifles or anything with wood on it.

Was all tactical and handguns and survivalist stuff.

Does anyone hunt anymore ? No optics other than the military stuff (and the very low end of that - chinese knock offs ).

Ammo was a joke - 3 boxes of 375 H&H and they were 30-40 years old.

I would not step in a florida public hunting area - the public hunting crowd would terrify me running around with ar and ak platform guns. I have a lot of AR and AK platform guns and hunt with a Larue 308 - but not anywhere around the florida gun show crowd. It just seemed that people were so distanced from hunting - they were just tactical gun crowd. Look at hunting season and hunting areas as a place to shoot guns.

Where are all these gun buyers shooting their guns - I am a member of one of the very few rifle range in central florida - don't see a lot of people there and florida does not have a lot of open public land to go shoot on.

If this is the gun buying crowd - big bores and other fine (anything with wood and no picataney rails) hunting rifles will be something we will only see at dsc and sci.

I did meet one very lonley guy selling fishing trips to columbia - did not seem a bad deal for $3K.

Mike

Yup, that's how it is. Most of our rifles still have walnut stocks. My sons each have a synthetic stocked rifle (one a 375 Weatherby, the other a 416 Rem), but except for one Ruger 10/22 everything else is wood. As for pistols, we have an M&P 9mm (older sons) a G36 (younger sons) and the old man has two Springfield 1911s in 45 ...