The weight of my rifle is 11.75 lbs, and I am quite pleased its on the heavy side!
The barrel is 24" long, but I have not measured the diameter at the muzzle.
It is extremely heavy contour.

The wrist pin, cross pins are all making much better sense now. Thanks for the photos.

Tell me about the barrel/forward recoil lug. Do these big bores have a recoil shoulder on the barrel too?
I have bedded several rifles, but I free float the barrel, with only the first 1-2" of the barrel channel bedded where the full diameter is before it begins to taper.

416Tanzan, I agree with your bedding concept 100%, shooting for no binding/flexing of the action.
You've stated some clearance behind the rear tang. Do you not do any bedding under the rear tang?
During the front lug bedding work, do you just snug the rear tang down to the wood?

I have bedded about 4 rifles now. First one was a FN commercial Mauser built into a 6.5x55 1000 yd highpower prone match rifle. I used Acraglas Gel, and I didnt get it mixed 100% thru, still had some clumps. [First one, didn't know any better] Spread it into the front and rear areas, and placed in the the barrel action. The Gel didn't cure fully and small spotty areas were still soft. luckily the recoil lug and enough of the platform cured hard, so I just scraped out the soft spots. She shoots 0.5-0.75MOA at distance so it worked, though it looks like the surface of the moon...

I then switched to the standard Acraglas formula, instead of the gel. It mixes better and fills better.
Messier of course, but i tape a LOT.

I am not married to Acraglas. I know somebody mentioned MarineTex, but I think the working time is shorter.

Maybe this weekend I can get her apart and see what the inside looks like.

257 Roberts (never had a Bob but the caliber always appealed as a nice little rifle)

Yes, I do bed the tang, and in a couple of different ways.

Here is a Tikka, also in 338, that I bedded as a kind of epoxy pillar. It took two or three stages, I don't remember exactly.

The epoxy forms a pillar that should resist wood compression over time.

The Ruger that I first mentioned and showed the axial bolt entrance from the tang was later bedded:

The material in the rear was cleaned out, of course, so that the tang does not hit the wood. I don't remember if the epoxy in this one formed a column, or not. Probably not from the looks of it. But the rifle is shooting nicely and the extra epoxy seems to be a stable enough base for a 338. Again, the critical point is that the action sits in the stock without binding as it is tightened. And hidden in the back is a 1/4" all-thread that is epoxied through the wrist to where the stock gets broad again (4"-4 1/2").

Anyway, a little thought, various sizes of all-thread, a drill, and epoxy can give you piece of mind with the 470.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
257 Roberts (never had a Bob but the caliber always appealed as a nice little rifle)

Its a fun little cartridge and simple to work with. I've got 3 of them in the safe right now.
Took a prairie goat in Wyoming back in 2013 with one at 575 yards. Boom, down. Like a lightning bolt!

quote:

Originally posted by 257 Roberts:
The weight of my rifle is 11.75 lbs, and I am quite pleased its on the heavy side!

Wow! is that with the scope and rings or without?
About as expected if with scope and rings.
If 11.75 lbs without scope and rings, then you must have some lead or mercury inside the stock somewhere?

The barrel is 24" long, but I have not measured the diameter at the muzzle.
It is extremely heavy contour.

If it is about 0.740" ay 24" length, it is about same contour as my barrel which is 0.720" at 26".
My rifle is 10.75 lbs with no scope, rings, nor ammo.

The wrist pin, cross pins are all making much better sense now. Thanks for the photos.

Tell me about the barrel/forward recoil lug. Do these big bores have a recoil shoulder on the barrel too?

A walnut-stocked .470 Capstick should definitely have a secondary recoil lug on the barrel.
Here are some bedding pics from my rifle:









I have bedded several rifles, but I free float the barrel, with only the first 1-2" of the barrel channel bedded where the full diameter is before it begins to taper.

A heavy-barreled rifle of great power such as yours should be full-contact bedded from the primary/action recoil lug to tip of forend, IMHO.
No free-floating of barrel required.
If it does not shoot great like that, start by sanding out the barrel channel to free-float barrel ahead of the secondary recoil lug.
The Winchester M70 should have pillars too, at the front and rear action screw holes.
Mine does. They are stainless steel tube, covered with the epoxy bedding.
The common, threaded tube used in lamp/lighting fixtures works great for this,
just use a tubing with an ID bigger than the action screws' major thread diameter.
If ever tossing out an old table lamp, save any parts in it you might find, suitable for pillars.
Waste not, want not.

416Tanzan, I agree with your bedding concept 100%, shooting for no binding/flexing of the action.
You've stated some clearance behind the rear tang. Do you not do any bedding under the rear tang?
During the front lug bedding work, do you just snug the rear tang down to the wood?

Here is how you bed a Winchester M70 Classic at tang:



The tang relief being talked about is at the back end of the square recess. Action should not touch there,
but of course it should sit down firmly in contact with the rear pillar, on the bottom of the tang.
Just a couple of layers of vinyl tape on the back and sides (not on the bottom) of the square block on the tang underside
is enough of a spacer when bedding, for "tang relief."
That is hidden when assembled. The big flat surface of the tang that is visible at the rear of the action just floats on the wood,
wood is underneath it.
Any releif of tang is hidden underneath. Do not remove any visible wood, no visible gaps behind the tang when assembled.
That is one of the pretty things about an M70.

I have bedded about 4 rifles now. First one was a FN commercial Mauser built into a 6.5x55 1000 yd highpower prone match rifle. I used Acraglas Gel, and I didnt get it mixed 100% thru, still had some clumps. [First one, didn't know any better] Spread it into the front and rear areas, and placed in the the barrel action. The Gel didn't cure fully and small spotty areas were still soft. luckily the recoil lug and enough of the platform cured hard, so I just scraped out the soft spots. She shoots 0.5-0.75MOA at distance so it worked, though it looks like the surface of the moon...

I then switched to the standard Acraglas formula, instead of the gel. It mixes better and fills better.
Messier of course, but i tape a LOT.

I am not married to Acraglas. I know somebody mentioned MarineTex, but I think the working time is shorter.

Maybe this weekend I can get her apart and see what the inside looks like.

I am now a great believer in bedding with J-B Weld. The 500 Mbogo previously shown was done with that.
MarineTex is what my GUNSMITHs have mostly used, including on the .470 Capstick shown here.
They can get it in bulk, cheap, and it is good.
AcraGlass and SteelBed: All good.

Rip ...

Loving all the photos RIP! Thanks!

My total barrel length is 24".
The diameter at the muzzle is 0.840".

Total package weight as shown in the photo is 11.75lbs.

I am anxious to get it apart now and see underneath.
What should I expect to see from a Custom Shop gun?

Wow again, that is a fatter-barreled one than mine.
With a barrel that phat, no mercury or lead is suspected.
My hog is pound lighter than your hog!

Rip ...

Can anybody enlighten me regarding the mysterious "ghost shoulder" that exists with the 470 Capstick?

Is this an anomaly that exists strictly due to seating a .474 class bullet into the 375 H&H case, or does the forming die actually put a slight taper on the top half of the case?

Are there any special accommodations for reloading this cartridge, or should it be treated like any other straight walled case?

ignore the "ghost shoulder" for now .. it is of less meaning then if the case says 458 or 470 .. oh, it's real .. you'll notice it after awhile .. but don't sweat it

Not much to add to the excellent advice in this thread, but I would recommend CH4D for a .470 Capstick die set. They’ll be faster and significantly cheaper than an RCBS custom order. I have nothing but good to say about their dies and customer service.

Midway USA had .470 Capstick headstamped brass from Qual Cartridge, but I think I bought the last of it. Graf’s is another good source, as mentioned above.

quote:

Originally posted by 257 Roberts:
Can anybody enlighten me regarding the mysterious "ghost shoulder" that exists with the 470 Capstick?

Just about any properly loaded, straight-sided cartridge case has minimal taper of the neck portion of the case
that is properly gripping the bullet.

The hullabaloo about the 470 Capstick having a "ghost shoulder" comes about because it is specified in the maximum brass specs of the case:
at 2.850" length the diameter is 0.499"
at 2.350" length the diameter is 0.499"
from there down it tapers up in diameter, to just above the belt, where the brass maximum diameter is 0.513"

The transition from minimal taper to NO taper of the brass at 2.350" from the breech face
is how the GHOST SHOULDER happens.
There is hardly any other way to do it.
Naming it that was a stroke of dramatic genius.
"Much Ado About Nothing" was a comedy by Shakespeare, right?
Same kind of commotion with the "ghost shoulder."


Is this an anomaly that exists strictly due to seating a .474 class bullet into the 375 H&H case, or does the forming die actually put a slight taper on the top half of the case?

See above.

Are there any special accommodations for reloading this cartridge, or should it be treated like any other straight walled case?

You got that last part right, treat it like any other straight-walled case.

Rip ...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jlabreck7316:
Not much to add to the excellent advice in this thread, but I would recommend CH4D for a .470 Capstick die set. They’ll be faster and significantly cheaper than an RCBS custom order. I have nothing but good to say about their dies and customer service.

I looked up the CH4D dies today, and their website states they are for a 0.475" bullet. I was of the impression the bullets were 0.474" like the 470NE.

I looked at 470NE dies and they clearly state 0.474" bullets.

Do I have to order something special to get 0.474" in the 470 Capstick?

I have .470 Mbogo dies from CH4D that work fine with either .474" or .475" bullet, using Quality Cartridge brass.
Likewise no problems with the RCBS .470 Capstick dies and BeLL brass or Hornady basic brass,
or the RCBS .470 NE dies with BeLL and Federal brass,
and the Hornady 480 Ruger/.475 Linebaugh dies with Hornady brass.

If you can save a hundred bucks on the dies, go for it.
I would not sweat the .001" difference in bullet diameter.
Have you slugged your barrel?

If you end up loose with a .474 instead of .475 bullet (not likely),
it would probably be a matter of polishing the expander plug a wee bit to tighten up the brass grip on the bullet.

Rip ...

What RIP said... either .474” or .475” will work.

CH4D dies have been ordered. Thanks folks!

Hey folks, digging up an old thread here. I sure appreciate all the advice that's been given thus far.

I finally have Capstick reloading dies to go along with some quality cartridge brass, so its time to get serious about the bedding job. I haven't yet taken the 470 rifle apart, but will happen in the coming days.

I am planning to bed a Winchester 70 push feed 257Roberts first. This will be to re-familiarize myself with the bedding process, and also to possibly try a new bedding product. I used Acraglas Gel once. I was a greenhorn, didn't know what I was doing, and didn't get it mixed thoroughly enough. The super thick clumpy mixture was applied and obviously didn't completely cure in places. It got enough of the critical areas, but looks like the surface of the moon...

I later switched to the original Acraglas formula and I have bedded 3 rifles with it since. It has the "runny" syrup like consistency and is rather messy, but gets the job done. My question for folks here, is Acraglas strong/durable enough for a big bore application?

I don't know the Acraglas or Marine-Tex shrink % either. Anybody know? Steel bed is like 0.1%

From what I am reading, Marine-Tex Gray seems like a contender. It talks about a "creamy" like consistency.
I am not too worried about the color, wont see it anyways.

I am planning to do an all-thread wrist bolt and an all-thread cross bolt under the primary recoil lug.
Obviously do the wrist bolt first. I think I will also do both on my 257R for some practice.

Can I bed the front, rear, and barrel channel all at the same time? Or would folks recommend a step by step process?
In my previous bedding jobs, I have done the front and rear action at the same time with floating barrels.

For my 257Roberts test run, I think I will also bed the full barrel channel, but will tape the barrel in order to keep it free floating. This will get my some experience bedding the channel, while still maintaining a floated barrel.

Pillars. What's the best way to size the pillars? Obviously bigger than the action screws. What about face to face contact on the ends and overall length. Is there a good method to do this?

I want the 470 done right, but I want to do it myself. The practice run cant hurt.

Any suggestions are appreciated. THANK YOU!

Take this for what it is worth:

Several years ago I hired a marine architect with 20+ years of experience building 12 meter ocean crossing sailing yachts to help me design and build waterproof & dustproof off-road trailers. I needed specific help engineering wood and metal (steel and aluminum) structural fittings that would last for a projected 20 year life span of hard use in a wet environment. In the process I learned a bit about epoxy and polyester resins used in combination with homogeneous and laminated wood. The professional answer for much of what I needed was Marine-Tex, and 8 years later I believe the choice remains the same.

A rifle stock and action joint is not a high stress component on a sailing vessel (or an off-road trailer), however it is a metal and wood or epoxy/polyester joint that is subject to constant axial compression loading (action bolt stress), receives regular radial and axial shock loads (recoil forces, cantilevered barrel weight, general abuse), and needs to structurally survive moisture exposure.

For real world use of Marine-Tex on rifles, a long range gunsmith who has built world record setting 600 and 100 yard rifles built me some very nice varmint rigs. He uses Marine-Tex exclusively. The USMC Maintenance Manual for the M3/M5 (Sniper Rifle) System specifies Marine-Tex for bedding jobs. It is listed by name right there in the official technical document. If it can win competitions and survive combat deployments, it is almost by definition a proven solution.

Yes, some gunsmiths use other things and they work, however I am fairly confident that Marine-Tex remains one of the better solutions.

My friends 470 Chapstick cracked four stocks and broke every scope he had on it .I think those guns need a way fatter stick and a big muzzle break .The friend of mine duct taped his stock together after he reguled it .I was afraid to shoot the rifle because of the stock being repaired.That laminated stock would be better if it was way fatter !