I have read several articles about hunting in Cameroon where people use inserts that allow pistol bullets to be fired from there rifles i.e. 41AE from a 416 and 45ACP from a 458. Does anyone know where these can be purchased.

Thanks,
Joshua W. Rich
dearmer@mail.com

quote:

Originally posted by Joshua W. Rich:
I have read several articles about hunting in Cameroon where people use inserts that allow pistol bullets to be fired from there rifles i.e. 41AE from a 416 and 45ACP from a 458. Does anyone know where these can be purchased.

Thanks,
Joshua W. Rich
dearmer@mail.com

Josh, I don't think that would work out too well! The 41AE bullet is .410" DIA, and the 416 has a DIA of .416, and the 45ACP is a .451", while the 458 is .458"! The 41AE , and the 45ACP is .o06" too small! There are others that are closer, but most are not in the large chamberings used in Africa.

EDITED TO CORRECT TO PROPER DIAMETERS! as noted by TriggerTate!

quote:

Originally posted by Joshua W. Rich:
I have read several articles about hunting in Cameroon where people use inserts that allow pistol bullets to be fired from there rifles i.e. 41AE from a 416 and 45ACP from a 458. Does anyone know where these can be purchased.

Thanks,
Joshua W. Rich

dearmer@mail.com

There are two types; one accepts smaller rounds of the same caliber and lets you do things like shoot 30 Carbine in a 30-06. They have limited use in big bores for the reasons Mac said (but its the 44 Mag that's .429, not the 45ACP).

The other type has a small barrel section and shoots sub-calibers like 25 ACP in 30-06. For something exotic you'd probably have to have one turned from a piece of barrel. And be sure to radius the front and put an o-ring on the tip to prevent scatching your bore and to center the insert the same each time.

They are a PIA when you get down to it. You have to load the insert, then load the insert into your gun, eject the insert and then pop the empty out of it with a rod, reload the insert and start all over. You're way better off learning to reload reduced power rounds.

It does seem like they would be less than optimal as far as size goes (especially in 45) but I have read several articles where people say they work great. There may be other factors that I am now aware of however. Hopefully there is someone on here who has used them.

The bullet diameter for the .45 ACP is .452".

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:



There are two types; one accepts smaller rounds of the same caliber and lets you do things like shoot 30 Carbine in a 30-06. They have limited use in big bores for the reasons Mac said (but its the 44 Mag that's .429, not the 45ACP).

Damn "OLD-TIMERS disease! Your right, of course the 45 ACP is .451"/452" , not 429"!

I think I caught it too. Too much time in front of a CRT.

What about sabots which would let you fire smaller bullets out of your big-bore case? I would like a small light load (lighter than downloading regular bullets) for my 375 H&H.

Don't mean to hijack the thread but could a .357 cal shot capsule be paper patched and fired from a .375? or a .452 in a .458? carrying a couple of those in my cartridge belt would br alot nicer than lugging around my 6" ruger .357 mag with all these rattlers and cottonmouths around.

You can also turn your own sabots or shot cups out of Lexan rod. Just be sure to score them so they discard after leaving the muzzle.

Do you cast your own bullets? That's always a thought to cast up a few and download them, if that's what you're looking for.

I go with the cast bullet theory. You can order LaserCast bullets that are H-A-R-D, like Bhn of 22. They offer the standard RFN design for 38-55, 240gr .379". I shoot my 375 Improved with that bullet in front of 75gr of AA3100 for ground squirrel herd culling. About 2100fps and 2" groups at 100 yds. It doesn't hurt the squirrel, just punches a 3/8" hole thru him and kills him.

Rich

Looks like using reduced loads may be the way to go. The reason I brought up the discussion is that I am considering a chasse libre hunt in Cameroon for Elephant and the consensus seems to be that do to poaching the Elephant are very skittish to the sound of rifle fire. To overcome this most people have been using these inserts to shoot Duiker and other small critters and the noise level is low enough to keep from scaring the Elephants. I suppose a standard 300 or 500 grain solid from a 375 or 458 Lott at about 1200 fps would do the same thing. Anyone have any load data for the above?

Years ago, I made some .30 carbine inserts for my .470Nitro by turning down two .30 caliber barrel blanks to the outside chamber dimensions of the .470NE case ( with a steel Rim for extraction),while keeping the barrel diameter .473 ( precision fit). I chambered it for .30 carbine. Of course you had to reload by ejecting the case with a cleaning rod, but accuracy was not bad at all out to 25 yrds or so with the .470NEs open sights 0nce you figured out where the bullets would strike. good enough to hit a rabbit or two. It was not easy to get the fit necessary and the inserts had to have a index mark to achieve some sort of regulation, but it does work sort-of.-Rob

If you really want quiet, a cast bullet in a .375 H&H with a magnum primer and 13 grains of Red Dot (no fillers!) will give you about 1300fps and is extremely quiet.

You can drop down to 8.0 grains of Red Dot if you want to slow'em down to about 800fps. Judging distance (trajectory!) becomes important when you go that slow though...

A 250gr lead bullet with a flat nose even at these slow speeds is a remarkably good killer on smaller critters to the size of a dog. I've never used these loads on anything bigger though.

John

Where to purchase them depends on what you want.

Ace, in Alaska produces some:
http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm

For info on some other options contact:
http://www.drillinghotline.com/

In most cases, the insert is placed in the chamber and held in place with loctite. Then you have to re-zero your sights. A broken cartridge extractor is used to remove the insert.

I have a set of 45-70 that fit a 12 gauge. Haven't used them yet, but am working on a project gun with this in mind.

I guess I should check prior to saying anything, but isn't the .458 bore a .450/groove .458? while not loads of engraving, it could/might work like a paradox rifle.... then again, it might blow by like a smooth bore.


heh.. pistol bullets in a DGR for "practice"... the 470 Mbogo and AR are good for that... 400gr speer GP at 2468 today at the range... nice plinking load!!!

jeffe

I have never used these in my 375, but I did not own a 22 LR as a kid, but had an auxillary cartridge for my deer rifle and killed squirrels and other small game with my little shells. I have several and still shoot them. They are not match ammo, but they are quiet, gentle, fun and let me shoot the rifles in my yard. I live on a farm, but have neigbors that full power loads would find objectionalble.