I think it is a fragile bullet, despite (or because of) copper-washed thin steel jacket around the non-bonded lead core.

Better not push it any faster than 2150 fps MV,
nor shoot anything inside of 50 yards with it,
if 2150 fps MV max is allowed,
or it will most likely go "Lion Load" on you!

I was interested in digging the DGX out of the soft earth berm, again,
after having seen what happened to them on my previous range trip.
Shot into an area that was gravel-free, they were most often found inside 1 foot depth of soft soil, having completely shed the core, within inches of entry.
OK, the bigger lead fragments might have gone deeper than the jackets.
Not live game, but a pretty soft landing.



All these targets and recovered bullets came from 50 yards.

First was starting to file in an open sight, for the slowest load in 500 Mbogo No.2 (100 grains of Varget with filler, bottom most photo below).

Next, was a little faster with 500 Mbogo No.1 (119 to 123 grains of H4350).

There may be hope of keeping the core in the jacket (occasionally, rarely) if impact is less than 2100 fps.

@2364 fps MV, 2226 fps Impact Velocity: Unleaded!
@2343 fps MV, 2206 fps IV,
there was a little piece of the tail end of the core found in the center jacket, of the the three, in the photo directly below,
just for example of the mayhem:







With 123-grains load of H4350, the shot patterns started to look like a group: 1-inch, center-to-center, at 50 yards, for 3 shots.
I adjusted 4 MOA to the left, and the final shot landed about 3/4" from where I was aiming.
Must have overshot the adjustment on that Leupold 2.5X.

My lot of H4350 must be slow in the 500 Mbogo:
(79 degrees F today at high noon. Mildest summer in Kentucky in a long time. Global cooling?)

119 grains has some shake: 2321 fps MV
121 grains is a full case: 2343 fps MV
123 grains is mildly compressed, with no drop tube use: 2364 fps, under 50K psi, maybe.

Here is 100grains of Varget plus 5 grains of Dacron: 2230 fps MV, and just over 40K psi



Maybe 115 gains of Varget with no filler will go faster. I reckon so!

Any of these loads could be used directly in the 500 Jeffery, with the same velocity results,
since the 500 Mbogo and 500 Jeffery are near identical in case capacity.
Of course, the 500 Jeffery with greater base diameter, will suffer greater bolt thrust.
Better make sure the action is not undercut too much at the front.
Also better make sure the 500 Jeffery brass is up to the task,
and the throat of the chamber is adequate.

500 Jeffery Owners: Better not go any higher than the above chronographed 500 Mbogo loads in a 500 Jeffery.
Forget the 115-grain Varget load with 570-grainers, though you can go higher than 100 grains, your call.

No worries with the 500 Mbogo.
It will give ballistics of the most sedate 500 Nitro Express 3" (sub 40K psi pressures to boot).
It will also equal the most fiendishly hotrodded .505 Gibbs, if both are housed in a man-portable sporting rifle.
It will beat the 500 A-Square by either higher velocity or lower pressure, or both, if hairs are being split,
by those angels dancing on the head of a pin.
450-grainers at 2800-2900 fps
535-grainers at 2600-2700 fps
570-grainers at 2500-2600 fps
600-grainers at 2400-2500 fps
650-grainers at 2300-2400 fps
700-grainers at 2200-2300 fps
750-grainers at 2100-2200 fps
Something like that.

Macifej,
I need some of your .510/535-grainers to try with:

Benchmark
RL-15
Varget
RL-17

+2600 fps or bust!

I suspect a supremely accurate 500 Jeffery load with your bullet would be 105 grains of Varget and enough Dacron filler to pack it tight.

lb404's Sterling Davenport M98 500 Jeffery did this with no filler!:

"Woodleighs keep their cores."
The ScheiBmeister

quote:

I need some of your .510/535-grainers to try with

Running a little behind schedule here ... producing 5,000 bullets this week. The .510's should be first out the door. Will be worth the wait I assure you ...

If those Woodleigh 535-grain softs can shoot like that in a 500 Jeffery,
there should be a need for some "perfected solids" of the same weight to go with them.

"Without a good bullet, a good barrel cannot shine."
The ScheiBmeister

Hi Mike.
Thanks for linking this thread to yours on the African hunting forum.

For a soft, you will be better off with a GSC HV, Barnes TSX, or Woodleigh RNSN, than the DGX SOFT.
Even a "dirt shoot" can tell you that.

Yes, this DGX is frightening.

A buffalo or elephant will be tougher than the few inches of dirt that separated the non-bonded cores cores from the
thin steel jackets of the DGX.

Might work well for leopard in .510-cal./570-grain DGX variety.

Hornady screwed up.

Maybe Barnes and Hornady should get together and combine the 350 Grain .375" TSX with the 570 Grain .510" DGX ... then you could have a bullet that's the worst of both worlds instead of the worst of just one world. Could be called the DGTSX ...

quote:

For a soft, you will be better off with a GSC HV, Barnes TSX, or Woodleigh RNSN, than the DGX SOFT

100% agreement. My tests with 458 caliber DGX were less than impressive to say the least. However, I try to refrain these days from posting test work as it brings out the idiots. I now choose to let "idiots" remain stupid. I tend to forget they were born stupid, and will be stupid all their lives, very little I can do about that!

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

For a soft, you will be better off with a GSC HV, Barnes TSX, or Woodleigh RNSN, than the DGX SOFT

100% agreement. My tests with 458 caliber DGX were less than impressive to say the least. However, I try to refrain these days from posting test work as it brings out the idiots. I now choose to let "idiots" remain stupid. I tend to forget they were born stupid, and will be stupid all their lives, very little I can do about that!

Michael

Precisely!!

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

For a soft, you will be better off with a GSC HV, Barnes TSX, or Woodleigh RNSN, than the DGX SOFT

100% agreement. My tests with 458 caliber DGX were less than impressive to say the least. However, I try to refrain these days from posting test work as it brings out the idiots. I now choose to let "idiots" remain stupid. I tend to forget they were born stupid, and will be stupid all their lives, very little I can do about that!

Michael

and their minds are made up, no matter what teh facts may say

I haven't used the DGX on anything but I can't help but wonder why Hornady chose to use a steel jacket on a soft point. Steel jackets shatter rather than tear, It would seeem that a steel jacketed soft would almost surely break off the jacket. Perhaps that is what they intended. The nose shatters and forms a small bomb causing a lot of tissue damage and the rear part holds together and continues to penetrate.

465H&H

RIP,

Thanks for the heads up! They aren't much cheaper than Woodleighs so I wasn't going to try them anyway. If it ain't broke don't fix it, and the Woodleighs aren't broke!!

Looks like a good whitetail boolit!

Canuck,

Based upon RIP's pics above that would be a really bad white tail bullet if you wanted any edible meat. The Woodleighs make REALLY BIG holes in white tail and I doubt they even expand!! I know I shot a couple, won't do it again, very messy.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
I haven't used the DGX on anything but I can't help but wonder why Hornady chose to use a steel jacket on a soft point. Steel jackets shatter rather than tear, It would seeem that a steel jacketed soft would almost surely break off the jacket. Perhaps that is what they intended. The nose shatters and forms a small bomb causing a lot of tissue damage and the rear part holds together and continues to penetrate.

465H&H

so that the bullets will be the same length and correct the well documented problem of the solids being longer than the softs, and going to a different point of impact ..

the softs and solids are inverted cups from the other ... same length, shape, and weight .. which means darn near some point of impact.

quote:

the softs and solids are inverted cups from the other .

Jeff, look at RIP's pics, those soft points are NOT inverted cups! The base is solid. I think you need to rethink your comment. I believe they did it for POI reasons also, but not length so much as extrusion force ie the force required to engrave the riflings and push the bullet down the bore. Steel cup solids require higher forces than "bronze" jackets. This results in different muzzle velocities and barrel harmonics ie different POI between traditional softs and solids.

quote:

Originally posted by ScottS:

quote:

the softs and solids are inverted cups from the other .

Jeff, look at RIP's pics, those soft points are NOT inverted cups! The base is solid. I think you need to rethink your comment. I believe they did it for POI reasons also, but not length so much as extrusion force ie the force required to engrave the riflings and push the bullet down the bore. Steel cup solids require higher forces than "bronze" jackets. This results in different muzzle velocities and barrel harmonics ie different POI between traditional softs and solids.

REALLY scott? ever SEEN one, in your hand? nearly EVERY post you make speaks volumes of you experience .. inverted cups are how FMJs have been made for over a century ... and its exactly how hornady makes the DGx/S bullets


Look at this picture, boy


now, imagine it turned around and that "great big flat spot" is now on the nose...

and, son, if you ever held one of each in your hand there's no denying it ..

goodness, scott, you'd argue with with a wall

Jeff,

You obviously haven't seen the DGX soft points as the picture you just posted (RIP's) are DGX soft points and they OBVIOUSLY ISN'T aredn't inverted cup design!!!

Please for once quit trying to be the allknowing know nothing! Grow-up already. Maybe you will learn something.

scott ..465's question was why the dgx used a steel cup.. the dgS is the cup of the DGX, inverted ... then the rest of my answer .. the dgx obviously is of cup design, not tube .. it has a steel cup, in fact, with a copper jacket .., again, OBVIOUSLY, and its well known than hornady likes steel jacketed solids ,.. the solid, inverted (makes a coonventional SP) is the DGX .. if you held a set in your hand, you would immediately be able to see this. and if you ASKED the bullet maker, there is no arguing with it.

Scott (wow) I was of the first here to even HAVE any .458, and .475, and .510 DGX/DGS bullets . No, not because of a special connection with hornady ... but because I had been following these for a couple years, researching them, and WAITING TO HAVE THEM before I ran my mouth.

here's hornady's number . call them and ask them yourself
1-800-338-3220

... please do take your own advice ..

quote:

the softs and solids are inverted cups from the other ... same length, shape, and weight .. which means darn near some point of impact.

Jeff that is WHAT you posted! You clearly stated both soft and solid were inverted cup. Just man up and admit it you were wrong.

Scott
HERE is what I said .. read it with emphasis on FROM THE OTHER ..
the cup goes one way for the DGS
and the OTHER for the DGX

this is what INVERTED CUPS are .. it goes one way to make a soft, and turn it over, (invert it) its a FMJ...

this, sir, is in the Corbin book from the 70s..

I'll man up and say my post was to discuss bullet construction, assuming a basis that not all readers may have said.

quote:

Originally posted by ScottS:

quote:

the softs and solids are inverted cups from the other ... same length, shape, and weight .. which means darn near some point of impact.

Jeff that is WHAT you posted! You clearly stated both soft and solid were inverted cup. Just man up and admit it you were wrong.

Now, man up and admit you read it wrong and were looking for a fight.

Jeffe/Rip- Why waste bandwidth argueing with ScottS? He's a moron and we've all known that for years. What he knows about Bullet construction, design, big bores etc you could wipe your ass with. Obviously, hes becoming resistant to his meds again . Pathetic drug resistant retard that he is.-Rob

quote:

Jeffe/Rip- Why waste bandwidth argueing with ScottS? He's a moron and we've all known that for years. What he knows about Bullet construction, design, big bores etc you could wipe your ass with. Obviously, hes becoming resistant to his meds again . Pathetic drug resistant retard that he is.-Rob

i just love it when someone that's NOT done the work tells me how the cow at teh cabbage ..

much like him telling rob about loading the 600 OK!

Hey we have been shooting a 600 OK here the last couple of weeks!

Michael

For the edification of those who may not remember Scotts last mental meltdown,he was actually stupid enough to adopt the name "ass clown" for quite awhile here on AR. The moron was actually proud of it. That alone speaks volumes about the failure of his meds. He's working himself up to his classic Wacko Finale! His decline into drug induced delusions of grandure are classic ScottS. Pathetic Drug resistant retard that he is. As we used to say, if ScottS's lips are moving hes lying. Hes so far gone, he cant even google straight anymore. Consider my comments a AR public service. -Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
For the edification of those who may not remember Scotts last mental meltdown,he was actually stupid enough to adopt the name "ass clown" for quite awhile here on AR. The moron was actually proud of it. That alone speaks volumes about the failure of his meds. He's working himself up to his classic Wacko Finale! His decline into drug induced delusions of grandure are classic ScottS. Pathetic Drug resistant retard that he is. As we used to say, if ScottS's lips are moving hes lying. Hes so far gone, he cant even google straight anymore. Consider my comments a AR public service. -Rob

Rob,

Thanks for the reminder I had almost forgotten those heady days.

BTW, proper english is "an AR public service". Jeff still misspoke and we all know it (have fun with that OK).

Well obviously the electro-shock treatments didnt result in a total loss of memory. Ask them to Increase the Voltage next time.-Rob

My favorite bullet is the woodleigh by far, but I just got back from africa and here is the two bullets recovered from My buffalo DGX through the shoulder and stopped on the opposite side under the skin (35yd shot), and solid shot straight on through the chest and found in the stomach (20foot shot). 458lott 500gr.DGX,DGS 2200fps I know this is not a .510 but i assume the design is the same. Point of impact is in the same hole with these and this rifle.






I did not recover the bullets from the hippo but it was a 1st shot DGX in the head (wich you can see in the photo no exit) followed by solids, I assume the bullets fell out of the skull and are in the boil out tank, I should have looked for them to show a head shot and see if they held together.

The only reason I didnt use woodleighs in my 458l is they were out of stock at Midway, I had woodleighs loaded in my 500j

I am not saying the hornady is the greatest bullet I am just saying they worked for me at this velocity and you bullet experts take a look at these and other test and give us the best advice so we can just stop using them and hornady will change their design, or if they are usable tell us what they might be good for.

and they worked on my bushbuck and blesbok 458 holes going in and 458holes going out both in the shoulder bushbuck was slightly high but no explosion about 70yd shots.

I am really surprised and confused by RIP's results. I had assumed that since the DGX bullets were copper clad steel, they would have a tendency to not expand very much with great risk of shooting through most any game animal. The DGX recovered from Bijoucreek's buffalo seems to support that theory. Expansion was pretty minimal. However, all of RIP's bullets seem to have come apart.

Dave

I did some test work with the 458 caliber versions and they performed exactly like the 458 Interbonds. Nose shears off on impact leaving a slug to continue to penetrate. The remaining slug still weighs in at 350-400 grs as I recall. Penetration was deep, as the remaining slug continues on.

I find that each caliber tends to react different. For instance the 400 gr 416 Interbonds actually did rather well in tests some years ago as compared to the 458s. They over expanded a bit, but held together well. I have not, do not intend to try any of the DGXs in 416 or other calibers.

I find it no surprise at all the 510s come apart, the 458s shear and leave a slug to penetrate, no telling what the 416s will do???

For me I would much prefer a Woodleigh or Swift, NorthFork or Barnes.

Michael

We fired some of the 510s into a dry stock pond dam and they didn't penetrate or hold up well. Of course it has not rained here in several months and the dam is like concrete.

ScottS is assclown?? Dang, that explains a lot!

You sure those aren't Hawk bullets? They sure look like 'em!

fla3006,
Dagga Boys wear a coating of "stock pond dam" on their hides quite often.

Do you reckon a single 5-gallon bucket of water would make the DGX shed its jacket completely?
I am guessing any impact over 2100 fps would routinely denude the DGX lead core.
Water alone is a pretty severe test of a soft.

The .458/500 DGX recovered from the cape buffalo by Mike is puzzling:
Shot through the shoulder and found under the offside hide?
Tip is just frazzled irregularly.
Expanded little.
No major bone hit?
Or pinched shut in passing through bone?
Should have been a pass through with so little expansion,
unless it tumbled sideways.

quote:

The .458/500 DGX recovered from the cape buffalo by Mike is puzzling:
Shot through the shoulder and found under the offside hide?
Tip is just frazzled irregularly.
Expanded little

This is pretty close to what I had in my test work with the 458/480gr DGX.

In a previous post i said i did not watch them cape out the buffalo, so i didnt see the trama and exact bullet path. I should have watch but didnt know the controversy over this bullet at the time it just was not that big a deal.

I assume that the bullet hit the edge of the bone causing one side to be more deformed or like RIP said it might have hit bone and tumbled causing it to stop on the skin. I thought for sure i could shoot through a buffalo with my lott? thats why I also made a statement that i will for sure have my 500j scoped next time. My thought behind this was the lott just didnt have the power but maybe it was just the bullet performance.

keep in mind this was my first trip to Africa, first buffalo


Left To Righ .458 500gr DGX, 458 500gr DGS, .620 600ok AHR expanding solid copper

I shot these in june before My trip to Moz. starting to rust and corrode. this is the same load and bullet as above that was recovered from the buffalo. its hard to say but 12-15" penetration into wet sand. 600 is over a year old just happen to find while digging.

I might load up some more dgx, does any one have a load for 22" bbl lott I dont have my 24" bbl lott and i want maximum speeds for this test. otherwise I will just max out with varget, and shoot into wet sand at close range.

This is a test when the 500 gr Interbonds came out. Pretty much the same story as the DGX bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by ScottS:
Jeff still misspoke and we all know it (have fun with that OK).

"we all" as in all the voices in one's head?

its obvious the level of experience some have.

HEY -- why is the soft rusting? BECAUSE is has a steel cup... why is the solid rusting? ... LMAO

Jeffe- Stop it! The Voices in Scotts head are gone now, Right Scott? He still has Delusions of Grandeur in between his Seizures though. I'm told his drool cup runneth over when they give him computer priveledge time at the Institution. They dont call him AssClown for nothing!-Rob