I have an express rear sight on my 416 Rem. I just sighted it in using a 110 degree file to put the notch in the rear sight.

It only took a notch about 0.040 deep to get the POI right on at 50 yards. The front sight nestles perfectly in the resulting notch with the top of the bead level with the rear blade.

I would have preferred a deeper notch, but I am already using the shortest front blade NECG makes.

My question is: Should I file the traditional Express wide VEE into the rear blade - a straight line from bottom of existing notch to the edge of the blade? It seems to me that the result would be so extremely shallow it would be tough to center.

Since right now the top of the bead is level with the rear blade, it does not obscure my field of view - and I thought that was the main intent of the wide VEE.

I hate to take off metal I can't put back!

Cut it comfortable and instinctive for your shooting style. I have redone a couple using a "U"-shaped notch at the right depth, and then run the straight line out to the edges. With my late-fifties eyes it picks up the front the best in sunlight or dim light. Best answer........whtever suits your eyes the best.

regards,

Rich

Agreed. Whatever suits you. All of mine are wide, shallow "Vs", because that's what I like best.

I also like a wide, gold inlaid center line below the "V" to help center the front bead, which I prefer to be fiber optic.

After much experimentation, that's what I see and line up quickest and best. I guess the British are good for coming up with a few decent ideas from time to time.

Thanks for the responses - I guess I'll try the shallow VEE.

quote:

Since right now the top of the bead is level with the rear blade, it does not obscure my field of view - and I thought that was the main intent of the wide VEE.

That explains why you shot low with my 470 Mbogo....you are a "bead burier"!

With the fibre optic sight on the 470, I nestle the round bead into the VEE. Then put the bead where I want it to hit. If you were burying the bead it would definitely shoot low.

Covering the target with a fat bead is not good for 1000 yard target shooting, but it'll work for buffalo whacking.


Cheers,
Canuck

Hell, I'll probably be shaking like a dog shitting peach seeds, so all these good groups will be wasted!

Time at the gun range is always "time well wasted".

Never seen a dog expelling peach pits, but I get the point. I am hoping the weight of my 470 dampens my jitters somewhat.

I like the shallow V. It is not as accurate as a peep but I like being able to see my surroundings without peering through a hole.

Being accurate with a V is really based upon the stock fit. If you are looking down the barrel with the front sight in the right place, when you throw the rifle up, then it is accurate enough for close shots.

personally, I HATE shallow V's. I prefer a flat top to the sight with a U notch. I also hate Ford trucks and drive a Chevy. But that sure does not mean Fords are bad and V's suck, just that I like them. I also love head-strong red-heads, so you know I am pretty crazy anyway!

Marc, I hate V's too. However I go for a Ford instead of a Chevy.

Best open rear sight is a flat top blade with a square notch that is twice the apparent width of the front patridge/post.

Slap that flat top front (gold or white or white-lined gold) in line with the flat top rear centered in the square notch (the rear blade can have a gold, white or red line leading to the notch): BANG ON

Fast and accurate.

Precise for those who learn to hold Tennessee Elevation by the amount of post sticking above the flat top line of the rear sight.

Just like Elmer did it with his handguns.

quote:

Originally posted by Marc_Stokeld:
personally, I HATE shallow V's. I prefer a flat top to the sight with a U notch. I also hate Ford trucks and drive a Chevy. But that sure does not mean Fords are bad and V's suck, just that I like them. I also love head-strong red-heads, so you know I am pretty crazy anyway!

Interestingly enough, I totally agree, on each point! Though my wife's shooting ability gives me pause to recall that I am madly in love with a little blonde cajun woman!!!

... I can, and everyone else can too, shoot post and notch FAR better than ball and V... and it's easier on mature eyes, as well

jeffe

hey Jeffe,

I used to occasionally get up to Salmon, Idaho (350mi from my house here in SW Idaho)to visit with Elmer Keith.
A couple times he asked me to pick up Bill Jordan at the airport and drive him up. Always an honor! Anyway, one afternoon he was giving me fast draw lessons and asked me if I knew the difference between a Coon-Ass and a Horse's Ass...? I said no and he told me "the Sabine River".

One of Bill's favorite stunts was to balance half a dollar on the back of his hand, holding it above the pistol butt on his belt. On command he would draw the pistol, so smoothly and fast, that the half dollar would fall into the holster well. Anyway, we are at a hotel/casino in SE Montana, and I have a dozen or so half dollars (back in the day casinos used 50-cent and silver dollar slots) and some dudes ask him if he still does the trick. He says yes, and asks me for half a dollar to show the move. I do, he puts it on the back of his hand and does the draw. Puts the half dollar in his pocket. The dudes want to see the draw again, so he asks me for another half dollar. Does the trick and puts the half dollar in his pocket. Does this until I and the three other guys are out of half dollars. We head down to the banguet and eat. About halfway thru dinner I realize the man has fast draw-ed me out of six bucks! So I ask him for my money back and he says "Rich, lots of folks would consider it cheap at six bucks for half an hour of fast draw lessons".
My wife and the rest of the table just hee-hawed me under the table...

regards,

Rich

Sorry Jeffe, but while the post and U notch may work well for some on round bulls on a KD range, it sucks great green donkey dicks in the field. Next to the peep, it's the most worthless hunting sight I've ever used on a rifle. Wide Vee and bead is faster and more accurate, especially on moving game, and is much easier to use in poor light. The only problem with them is that everyone seems to want to use an Idaho baking potato for a front bead. Anything over .080" is a mistake.

I saw Bill do that trick more than a few times myself. He was using a ping-pong ball instead of a half dollar. I still have some old photos I took of it.
------------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Rich,
and I am east of said river!! :LOL Sounds like a neat trick.

Mark,
repsectfully, I disagree, but that's why opinions make horse races, right? I dont' feel the ball and v can be shot anywhere near as consistantly as a post and U.. and no where near as a peep... it was teh Sainted Finn that felt a peep was the fastest sight possible...

jeffe

Jeffe,
400 Nitro Express has a vested interest in insisting the archaic V-and-bead is best. Must keep the nostalgic stiff upper lip with a handle like that, donchaknow? Tut tut.

Rich,
Did you ever see Elmer do any 600 yard Six-gun Shooting with his notch and post? At a running coyote?

I must say I agree with 400 Nitro.
For competition with handguns, I prefer the partridge sight... for rifle competition to 1000 yards I prefer the peep.

However for big game hunting I MUCH prefer the wide British V rear, and a round brass bead front.

I like the wide V rear, round bead sight, so much that I have those sights fitted to my Freedom Arms 475 Revolver.

Sights are an individual thing, use what you like best, for me it is the wide V, round bead front for hunting.

Is it getting stuffy in here, as in nostalgic?

Guys,
which ever one shoots best with or feels more comfortable with is the best for them. KD is KD, if you don't KNOW the distance, (within reason) it doesn't matter if it's ball and V or 12power scope, it's still going to be a miss.

the post and notch are more accurate than the ball and V. and the peep more still. The ball and V offer a single advantage, a slightly larger FOV...

which can be overcome with proper techique, right? like "open your other eye"

again, referring to Finn, the peep sight, as a ghost ring, is the fastest and most accurate none magifing sight available. There's ZERO vision occlusion for the rear sight, but you don't see these on doubles much

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

The ball and V offer a single advantage, a slightly larger FOV...

The flat top rear covers less of the target than the shallow V.

The shallow V has no advantage.

Wow, Look what I've started!

My eyes are so old that only a rear peep gives me any chance at accuracy on anything other than a contrasting round bull.

But my rifle has an express rear sight and I wanted to get it sighted in before going to TZ. If I ever use the rear sight in anger it will probably be at 20 yards or less (assuming Leupold get my TWO broken 1.75-6x32 VX-IIIs back to me.)

I shot 96 rounds using the U-with flat iron sights yesterday. For some reason with irons the difference in POI is almost 3" between offhand and sticks at 50 yards. I think it is because with offhand I instinctively revert to "burying the bead" and with the sticks I have the time and confidence to "think" a bit more and hold the bead floating.

I filed the flat VEE in it last night and will try it on the same targets today.

My offhand and stick shooting is just "minute of buffalo heart" at 50 yards even with a scope - I don't think any iron sight is going to magically make me a better field shooter. What I can do with irons off the bags is of no use when hunting.

If I was intending to shoot the rifle with irons over 50 yards I would definitely have a peep. I have no problem with "bead-burying" with that setup!

Besides, I am a Toyota man!