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Shootaway I never had any issues with ejection on any of my Winchesters? If so, it's simple enough to tighten up that extractor I would think. Now you might be correct on the Hornadys and the Rugers, I only put a couple of magazines thru that 510 Wells I have with the Hornady DGS and it feed fine, and that gun won't feed anything else hardly. But I could care less anyway as it will never in my lifetime go to the field anyway. So I won't be wasting time on it. It don't have Winchester stamped on it anywhere I can find. Also you could be right about the Winchester barrels, I only have 5-6 458 Lotts, one of which has been shot a good bit, best I can calculate from the files and load data records it only has about 900 rounds shot through it so far. The others are newbies with the most only a few hundred each. Of course all of them are retired from the field too, so likely they won't get anymore heavy use anyway. My B&M series guns have various other barrels on them, like PacNor and such. Some of my test 50s and 458s have as much as 1500-2000 rounds through them, so I don't know when they are going to wear out? Of course I retired them too, give them to the boys for them to wear out now! Build me some new ones! Anyway, barrel wears out, snatch it off, chunk it in the trash and put another on, simple as that! Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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George Nahhh, have not slugged it YET. I will let my buddy Sam do that next time he is down here, should have done it a couple of weeks ago when he was here. Those damn guns, it would not surprise me one bit if Winchester didn't put a 476 or 475 or even bigger barrel on those in the confusion. I had a great relationship with the Custom Shop at that time, but so help me they were lost when it come to the big bores, and especially anything out of norm, meaning anything over 458 caliber. So I am sure they ordered and put the wrong barrels on them. Paper Patching is beyond my pay grade? Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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I only have one Winchester Custom Shop rifle, a 7mmSTW Sporting SharpShooter that they (wisely) contracted out to H-S Precision. Ross Seyfried wrote a great article on paper-patching in 'Rifle', I believe. Someone must have a copy handy; he used plain paper, nothing tricky. You could even try the Avery stick-on labels, as someone advised me once. George  | |||
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No excuse DocM!!! Don't put it off for Sam to do later. As suggested before ... Tap one into the muzzle (with lightly oiled bore) of the offending Winchester Custom Shop 470 Capstick, using a mallet and a 1/2" or larger diameter wooden dowel: 50-cal (.495") pure lead swaged ball from Hornady (standard muzzleloader balls) Then tap it back out using a smaller dowel as a bore rod from the breech end. Measure the diameter of the now oblong ball: Voila! Groove diameter of the barrel at the muzzle! Slugging the muzzle is easy. Slugging the throat and the rest of the bore is a little more complicated, but not much! 465 H&H, I agree, some light engraving of the bullet there. Others of us have said so before. Doc M may be getting a little careless? Been working too hard at the lab? North Fork Mike, My friend, Big Chief Thunderstick, owned one of those Winchester Custom Shop "Big Five" 470 Capsticks, several years ago. It had a loose barrel. He did not tell me how it slugged, and he has since migrated that rifle on along the Trail of Tears ... He did tell me that it had a patch of rough rifling near the muzzle end of the barrel which he could feel with a patched jag when cleaning the barrel.  Any way, we tried the early North Fork .474" FP solids in that rifle, and they keyholed! They worked fine in my McGowen-barreled 470 Capstick, which was a .475" grooved barrel of 1:10" twist. Then we got your new and improved .475" FP solids, and that little bit extra diameter (.001") was enough to keep the Winchester barrel from Keyholing! .475" also made the bullets faster and more accurate in my McGowen 470 Capstick (a rebarreled Winchester M70 Classic) and Merkel 470 NE.  I think the 470 Capstick barrels made by Winchester for their "Big Five" rifles had a serious QC issue! Some may have worked. Most did not, bad barrels. That is the only caliber of the Big Five series that I am aware of having problems ... and they were all fast twist 1:10" and oversized ... of the ones I heard of with problems ... and some may have even had chunks of rifling chewed up. | |||
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The assumption seems to be, if there is no land engraving on the recovered bullet that it did not have any spin when it left the barrel. That the bullet from a groved barrel will have no more spin than one from a smooth bore barrel. I wonder how we know that. If an undersized bullet travels down an overesize bore, it will bump into the lands in one or more places along the way. Perhaps it does gain some minmal amount of spin from the lands as it does. Perhaps just enough to stabilize the bullet to the target? 465H&H | |||
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RIP and 465HH Yes, I will get some lead balls soon and slug it. Yes, I have been very slack on that since I discovered it in 2007 or so. You can see some faint marks on these bullets, but can't scratch the surface and feel anything. I took a Barnes and a Hornady last night and put them in the end of the muzzle of both guns, I fully expected them to fall through to be honest, but they didn't and fit tight???? How is it possible that I can finger push one in, and yet fired they don't leave anything but a faint mark, not enough to "scratch and feel"? I don't know? I also have put them under the microscope, no engraving. Poor QC or ignorance on the 470s for sure. I have all the rest the 338-416-458 Big Five guns and they are just dandy, have shot all of them a lot! I opted out of the 375, had no use for that. These rifles are way too controversial I think! I will get some lead balls soon and take a big sledgehammer and slam them through! HEH! I mean come on, what harm can I do to them? Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Michael: I am anxious for you to try the .475 Hawk bullets in that gun. First, they are the correct diameter and second, they are very soft so they are going to obturate quite easily. They may be just the ticket for an oversize bore but trying to shoot solids of any kind in it is going to be a problem since they are all a little undersized. Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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I really want to keep to the issue of if a spinning flat meplat bullet penetrates better when it flies straight or when it wobbles?, and how soon does it straighten out at different mv speeds....that is the question with the BBS.I still feel that for 1:12 twists you will get quicker stability out of a Woodleigh Solid at the velocities of most double rifles than with the BBS.I will say also that from my little experience I will rather modify my 416 Rigby and my 500 Jeffery to feed the BBS flat meplat 500 g and 570 g and get both , quick stability and desired penetration with good ammunition feeding , because when in a difficult situation, the last thing you want is a keyhole of a bullet...it just might get you in the papers like "Billy Judd".I dont have a back up sometimes and trophy fees for lost game ( the locals pick up and keep the tusks after the PH and the Hunter are gone a lot of the time anyway) apart from bruising your ego' are pretty stiff these days, especially for the real good ones.The BBS works in the .416 and the 500....I will stick with that. Thanks Chaps | |||
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