I have a book on order, but don't want to wait till it arrives!

Does anyone know what the max length and trim to lenth is for 450 dakota brass?

(note: This is in regards to empty brass, not overall length of a loaded cartridge)

it is based on the 416 rigby case
case length, per ammoguide, is 2.9, oal 3.665

Great cartridge, I used to own a rifle chambered to it.

This is from Dakota's website. Trim to is 2.890". If you email them they will send you reloading data.

Thanks! I looked through the site, but must have missed that page...

I already got the relaoding data from them as well.

Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by Rob H:
Thanks! I looked through the site, but must have missed that page...

I already got the relaoding data from them as well.

Thanks!

Rob...their data is pretty well sorted out in their rifles, if your 450 came from another builder, use caution building up to the Dakota info.
I've had (2) 450 Dakotas, one from them and the other from a custom builder....chamber-throat-leade, all slightly different than the "factory" norms.

I agree with bobgrow. AHR built my .450 Dakota. If you rifle comes from a custom maker, be sure and reduce your max load by 5% to get a starting load and use a chrono.

Excellent advice. I believe the rifle I have now once belonged to safarikid here on the forum. It is a CZ 550. I'll reach out to him to get some more history on it.

quote:

Originally posted by Rob H:
Excellent advice. I believe the rifle I have now once belonged to safarikid here on the forum. It is a CZ 550. I'll reach out to him to get some more history on it.

Check with Idaho Sharpshooter, I think he bought a CZ 550 .450 Dakota from Safarikid a few years ago, Rich will more than likely have some good data for you.

That would be the rifle I bought! I do indeed have his data. He has been very helpful.

quote:

Originally posted by Rob H:
That would be the rifle I bought! I do indeed have his data. He has been very helpful.

You're in good hands with Rich.

Yes, I don't think Safarikid handloads, but Rich's info will be great. I have Jim Kobe stocking a Waffenfabrik Hein in 450 Dakota with a nice stick from Adam and Clay at Luxus...can't wait to get it.

PS: Karl (AR Screen name for Karl Stumpfe, African PH) uses a 450 Dakota on a Vektor action, and is an avid reloader. His powder choices in Namibia and RSA are probably different from ours here, though.

Funny how we ended up with both a 450 Rigby and 450 Dakota - Two almost identical rounds. The Rigby seems to be gaining. I wonder if that is based on the better sounding name? Or conservative loading? Was the Dakota proprietary and Ribgy open to all from the start? I only see Rigby currently listed online in the CZ catalog.

No complaints about lack of choices today!

Fourbore:

When I was building my .450 Dakota, Dakota brass was easy to get and Rigby brass was scarce as hen's teeth so I picked the Dakota over the Rigby. However, now Rigby brass is readily available as well. If I was doing it again, I would probably pick the Rigby instead. I don't know why except for the Rigby name and I have a .416 Rigby as well.

Rob:

Bobgrow is right. You have to be really careful with the load data. I was always told that you could use the data for beginning loads of the .460 Weatherby but you have to use caution there as well. I finally settled on a 450 Barnes TSX. Here is my data but again, use caution:


I managed to get back out to the range this morning (7/02/09) with the .450 Dakota. Earlier this week I had loaded up ten rounds to shoot across the chronograph. Five rounds were loaded in the brass marked "Dakota Arms 450" and five rounds were loaded in brass marked "450 Dakota". All the brass had been fired two or three times before. All rounds were full length sized with RCBS dies. The sizing die was screwed in until it touched the shellholder and then backed off a 1/8th of a turn. Each round was loaded with 94 grains of Reloder 15 from the same five pound canister and a 450 grain TSX seated out to 3.74. The Reloder 15 is lot number 75138 and the canister indicates it was made in the USA (not Sweden) in December of 2007. Temperature was 70-80 degrees. Here are the results:

Dakota Arms 450 Brass

High: 2419
Low: 2376
Avg: 2401
ES: 43
SD: 16

450 Dakota Brass

High: 2406
Low: 2380
Avg: 2395
ES: 26
SD: 10

As you can see, at least in my rifle, there was almost no difference in the brass. The Dakota Arms 450 brass was slightly faster and the 450 Dakota brass was a bit more consistent but here's the kicker. After I shot the first five rounds with the Dakota Arms 450 brass, it started to rain and I had to pull the chronograph in under the canopy. After the rain quit, I had to reposition everything and I it's at least possible that the slight difference in velocity could be attributable to a slightly different positioning of the chronograph.

I do not see any need to run these loads any faster. In my ten pound rifle, they generate about 68 pounds of recoil. Add about a pound for a scope and rings when I get them put on and recoil drops to only 62 pounds. At this velocity, with either a TSX or a banded solid, you would have a superb load for any animal in the world.

I have to give a little bump to Wayne Jacobsen here. My rifle is from AHR. When I ordered it, I did a wood upgrade with Fleur-de-lis checkering. Wayne gave me the most beautiful piece of hand select walnut I have ever had. It is just an extraordinary firearm.

RobH,

it's in good hands. I did get it broken in a little for you. Here's hoping you can put another Buff notch or two on it soon.
I hated to sell it, but with the Searcy DR in 470NE I could let it go to a good home!

Rich

Having a good time with her. I loaded up 10 Swift A frames and 10 barnes TSX shells tonight that I plan to go shoot tomorrow.

Dave, thanks for the info and stats from the chrony. Very helpful

Follow up question on crimping. I’d like to use a separate crimp die, but of course I cannot seem to find one for the 450 Dakota.

I have limited experience with crimping, do I need a crimp die specific to the 450 Dakota, or will any .458 crimp work? (i.e. if I got a crimp die for a .458 Winchester Mag, could I use it to crimp my 450 Dakota shells? I assume not..

quote:

Originally posted by Rob H:
Follow up question on crimping. I’d like to use a separate crimp die, but of course I cannot seem to find or will any .458 crimp work? I assume not..

Why?.....just use your seating die.
If you prefer to seat only before crimping, seat all your bullets, then remove the seater
and adjust your die for crimping in the usual manner.
A lot of extra effort though.
Why not seat and crimp in one stroke?

Could be my technique, but I find when I try to crimp with my seating die, one of two things happens:
1. I put the die down too far and the cases slightly accordion.
2. if I raise it up till it stops accordioning the brass, then the crimp does not really show on the brass.

I like the lee factory crimps as they squeeze the crimp in from the sides rather than push the crimp in from the top.

Granted there is a little fiddling to get a good crimp with commercial dies,but they work...could be you have a faulty crimping profile in your die. But before you go shopping,I'd get some local expertise to check your problem.