My boss has one of the CZ550's in .505 Gibbs. Thus far reloading for it has been troublesome. The CZ USA ammo, which is A-Square ammo, has case rims which are too thick. No problems in shooting the ammo, but reloading the cases is not possible until I turn down the rims to fit in the shell holder.

I am now having problems with Bertram Brass. Resized cases do not touch the expander which measure .503", in fact .504 Barnes solids are a perfect slip fit in the sized cases. I thought the dies might be defective. I sent them back to manufacturer, they said the resizer neck measures .525". My resized BB cases measure .529-.530" OD on the necks.

I was told, by the die maker, to anneal the necks as it is likely they are too hard and springing back. Additionally, the neck walls are also on the thin side on the Bertram, measuring in at .0115" where the CZ-USA/A-Square cases are .0125-.0135" thick.

Any experience working around these problems? Do you think annealing the necks is the way to go?

Thank you,
Kristofer

First I would buy a box of Horneber .505 brass and a box of Jamison .505 brass from www.huntingtons.com to see if either of those work better for you. Bertram brass is well known for being of spotty quality. Usually it is way too soft.

I have had trouble with RCBS dies loading the .505 Gibbs. First, the bottom of the sizing die is too long so I had to grind down my shellholder to full length size. Then the neck area of the sizing die is too short so it starts to collapse the shoulder when I push the case up far enough in the die to fully size the case. But they fireform back ok, and then I do not need to size the cases as much second time around.

a second on jamsion brass...

or send 3 fired cases to CH4D and have them make you dies.

the asquare spec wasn''t the same as the CZ reamer spec...

jeffe

You should not have to anneal new brass, or even fired brass, except after perhaps four to six loadings.

Sounds like bad brass or bad dies or both.

I'm with 500 Grains, my one and only experience with Bertram brass was less than pleasing. Half the cases would not fit in the shellholder (.30-30 basic brass). There's no excuse for that. A friend of mine had me make some .425 WR cases from .375 RUM brass and he said the "custon made" RUM brass was significantly superior to the Bertram cases he had. If they are not "the only game in town", go with somebody else.

The die set we have is CH4D, as is the shell holder.

I think it is a brass problem. Playing with a few pieces of the BB, I have noticed if I squeez cases between thumb and fore finger some will bend fairly easily, and others will not. Hardness on this stuff seems to be all over the place.

I will talk him into some Jamison brass...or having me build him a .510 Wells.

Thanks again.

Bertram Brass BAD! Horneber Good!-Rob

One caution re: Jamison brass, that I haven't seen posted here before (perhaps I missed it?)...overall the brass quality in the 100 cases of 416 Rigby Basic (headstamped 470 Mbogo) that I have has been good, but the case rim is too thick to fit in my RCBS 416 Rigby shellholder. Thankfully, it slides nicely into my RCBS 45-70 shellholder, so I have been using that instead.

Cheers,
Canuck

Canuck,

how does one go about getting some of that brass unheadstamped? The last Mast 416R cyl I got had some rather thin rims.

thanks,

Rich

I imagine that Jamison sells it unheadstamped too.

I believe that Dave E's original run of 470 Mbogo brass (that he headstamped himself) was MAST. The rims on it are literally 1/2 as thick as the Jamison stuff. Something inbetween would be great.

Chris,
Jamsion has been made aware of the rim thickness issue on the rigby stuff!!

jeffe

Thats good news. Hopefully Jamison fixed it up right away. It gave me a pretty good scare when I realized it wouldn't fit in my shellholder...headstamped 470 Mbogo brass isn't exactly the easiest to come by in Canada, and my trip was rapidly approaching!

Y'all,
Marc Jamison sold to me the last 76 pieces of 470 Mbogo basic cylindrical brass that he had on hand a few months ago.

It was obvious that he had recently turned/thinned down the rims and touched up the extractor grooves of each and every remaining case in that bunch. The areas recently machined were slightly more shiny and fresh looking, bright and smooth brass.

They fit the standard shell holder now but are still about 0.065" rim thickness instead of the usual 0.060" expected on a Norma or Lapua rim for the similar case head (.338 Lapua Magnum or .416 Rigby).

He was hard at work turning out a huge run of .416 Rigby brass, to the proper specs on rim and extractor groove, at the time, but let me watch him anneal those "Mbogo 470" cases before I left Sturgis with them under my arm. I am saving them for a start on the 500/470 Mbogo.

The A-Square .505 Gibbs brass was useless in my CZ .505 Gibbs, but the Jamison .505 Gibbs worked fine, as would the Horneber stuff at three times the cost?

Jamison is a quality operation. Birthing a baby involves some labor pains and a slap on the ass. He's got it all made right now on 470 Mbogo and .505 Gibbs.

Hey RIP-per,

got a website for Jamison? I need some of that unheadstamped 416 Brass.

thanks,

Rich

Idaho Sharpshooter,
Glad for the excuse to plug.

From Marc's business card, again:

Marc Jamison, Owner

Jamison International V LLC
3551 Mayer Avenue
Sturgis, SD 57785

Phone: 605-347-5090
Fax: 605-347-4704

No web site.

Does anyone have an idea how much 505 Gibbs brass is going for??? I'm torn between building a 470Mbogo or a 505 and I'm trying to factor in shooting costs in what I decide. Brass seems to be a significant cost once you go beyond the .458 lott. I can afford it just want to know up front what in store.

Thanks

Brad

505 Gibbs brass by Jamison from www.huntingtons.com is about 50 bucks for a box of 20.

Build the gun you want, not the one that is cheap to shoot. If you want cheap shooting, just use cast bullets.

I got 200 pieces of the first batch of Jamison .505 Gibbs brass for $1/piece plus shipping. I had sent him some of the A-Square brass to study their errors while he was tooling up for the .505 Gibbs. I told him he should charge more for the brass. He subsequently raised it to $1.50/case directly from him, plus about $10.00 shipping per 100 pieces, last time I asked.

Later I saw his brass offered by Graf&Sons for about $1.75/piece.

Now Huntington's has it for about $2.50/piece.

You might be able to buy it directly from Jamison for $1.50/piece, as that is what I was quoted several months ago.

I haven't checked into his latest prices since Huntington's has started carrying it. Surely he will still sell it direct, and is not just wholesaling it to the retailers.