quote:

Originally posted by Paolo9,5x73:
What Colonials? The English and Australians are American boot lickers now! The Frenchmen are different, becuase they know what real truffles smell like.

Bloody true, I'm afraid

Vive la France

quote:

Originally posted by JJ_Miller:

PS...the case does not have " roughly the same capicity " as you put it as the 375HH, it has a LARGER capicity, more powder in a larger case means same chamber pressure, higher velocity.

JJ, please stop posting false information. The 375 Ruger exceeds the 375 H&H case capacity by 3 grains only. RIP measured it. So your conclusion that the 375 Ruger will achieve higher velocities than the 375 H&H at the same pressure is just not true.

quote:

Originally posted by SuperSpeed:
If were having a very high end custom gun on Mauser or M70, quarter rib, the works, would you pick the 375 Ruger or 375 H&H.

For the sake of the discussion we will assume the 375 Ruger last as and works etc an etc

Mike

The 375 ruger will live on forever

quote:

Originally posted by JJ_Miller:


I chron'od the factory ammo. The 300gn RN was approx.250 fps faster than factory 300 gn 375HH ammo.

So you are getting 2800 fps out of the 375 Ruger with a 300 grain bullet?

quote:

The chamber pressure is the same due to larger case capacity.

Once again, please stop posting false information. The Ruger has only 3 grains more capacity. The only way to get 250 fps more velocity with 3 gr. more case capacity is with A LOT MORE CHAMBER PRESSURE.

quote:

Originally posted by SuperSpeed:


Let's jump above H&H and take Purdey.

You have a choice:

1) A Purdey bolt gun in 375 Ruger or

2) A Purdey bolt gun in 375 H&H

Which is your choice.

Mike

Why is a Mark V in 375 Wby not offered in this list???

'Bout them frenchies: my grandfather fought in WWI.

He said you can't trust anybody that fights with their feet and makes love with their mouth... "Over there, over there...tell the huns start running, 'cause the Yanks are coming...over there, over there, over there...".

I do not expect the 375 rugger to take a single sale away from the H&H, more likely the 338WM and RUM are going to sag badly. This thing really looks (especially on paper) like a Dakota 375. 2.570" case oal, .545" case diameter, 3.32" oal on the Dakota loaded round sitting here on my desk. Data is similiar, 270gr at 2900fps, 300gr at 2650 from Donnelly's book. What an innovative, completely original idea...the 375 Newton, oops, the 375 Dakota, oops, wrong again...behind door number three...the all new Ruger 375 cartridge.
Hogwash!!!

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Why is a Mark V in 375 Wby not offered in this list???

Two reasons Dan.

Firstly, Wbys goer is the 378 and let's face it, who now gives a fuck about 3 grains difference capacity

Secondy Wby is American and a class above Purdey.

Mike

Mike,

Are you telling me that I would need to step up to the 378 and 120 grains of powder in order to get 250 fps more velocity, and that a mere 3 grains of powder will not do it for me? Sheeeeesh!

Mike,

Are you telling me that I would need to step up to the 378 and 120 grains of powder in order to get 250 fps more velocity, and that a mere 3 grains of powder will not do it for me? Sheeeeesh!

Dan,

Wby has never claimed to be cheap or efffcient on the 378 based calibres.


But they are still the rifle/calibres that shit the most people.....and that alone is worth worth the admission price

Mike

JJ,

250 Fps faster than factory loaded ammo – more or less 5400 lbs of energy out of your 375R Wow.
Before you make such a bolt statement I would check My Chronograph. Otherwise some people may take it as silly.

Roland

quote:

Again, you are making an assumption that there won't be 375 Ruger ammo, brass, or rifles in ten years. Where do you buy your crystal balls? I'd like one. So far, sales are brisk, and prices are stabalizing at about $100.00 more than I paid for my 375 Hawkeye 6 weeks ago

Luv2,

First let me say, I sincerely hope the .375 Ruger stands the test of time. I like the idea of a standard action .375. And I am glad the rifles are jumping off your shelves....

And I don't have a crystal ball...never claimed to. But, as they say, those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it. When compared against the .375 H&H most of the other variants have fared only adequately if not poorly. Let's review them...

.375 Weatherby discontinued by Weatherby, again.
.378 Weatherby slow sales at best
.376 Steyr don't know if Hornady is still making ammo, but I don't thnk so.
.375 RUM slow sales, factory ammo choices minimal
.375 Dakota does anybody even have one?

All of the cartridges have some improvement over the H&H. Some are faster, more efficient, shorter, or don't have a belt. Do any of them sell more. I think the answer is obviously no.

I take no satisifaction in the demise of any of these cartridges... in fact, I mourn their passing. Shooters and hunters are poorer for their loss. But facts are facts. History is doomed to repeat itself. That is what I draw my conclusions from and that alone. Emotions cloud objectivity and while you are high on the .375 Ruger because of your experiences and owning two rifles I don't see a marked advantage to the round the other .375 varieties haven't already introduced to the shooting public.

But, time will tell. It always does. Here's hoping the .375 Ruger is a commercial success.

A highend customrifle..+$10.000...the .375 H&H gets my vote...better caliber, better resale!
Adding another +200 feet to a .375 cal 300 grain bullet doesn`t bring magic, but for the GNP figures and Ruger stockowners

Jens,

you are killing me man! But: you used the wrong emoticon...should have been...

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Two reasons Dan.

Firstly, Wbys goer is the 378 and let's face it, who now gives a fuck about 3 grains difference capacity

Secondy Wby is American and a class above Purdey.

A class above Purdey??? Care to elaborate.

Last I checked the Purdey rifles are made with German made Mauser Magnum, double square bridge actions....I'm the first guy to say "Buy American", but we're talking a difference here of a very nice functional rifle (Wby.) versus what some might call "Best In Class" (Purdey), or pretty close to being so.

What are you Aussies smoking down there

Dan, and everyone else who is damning the round,show me YOUR chrony data..............

What !!! none of you own a rifle in 375R !!! Well blow me bowlegged, there you have it. You all know more than Hornady, SAMMI amd my Chrony.

I am not posting any wrong data. At times you have to admit you don't know everything................JJ

Ah Roland............it ain't just my chrony, several people have posted the same results, sorry to bust your bubble................JJ

To All...........I am leaving the house right now. I am taking my 375HH and 375R. I am going to run 5 factory Hornady rounds from each rifle over the chrony. I'll let everyone know what happens................again...............JJ

JJ,

No one is damning the round. And no one is saying it is impossible to push the 375 Ruger to higher velocities than the 375 H&H. But since the case capacities of the 2 cartridges differs by only 3 grains, the only way the Ruger is achieving significantly higher velocity (250 fps) is with HIGHER PRESSURE.

You know Hornady claims 300-grainers @ 2700 fps with the .375 H&H Heavy Magnum Voodoo loads.

Hornady only claims 2680 fps with the 300-grainer in the .375 Ruger.

I got a little over 2650 fps average for 10 rounds of the .375 Ruger 300-grain Hornady factory loads in a 23" Ruger barrel, at 77 degrees F.

Maybe Hornady is using less Voodoo and more reality in the .375 Ruger?

Not bad for a 2.581" long brass case that is no fatter than the belt of a .375 H&H.

The .375 Ruger is about 4% to 9% bigger than the .375 H&H in case capacity, depending on the make of .375 H&H brass you are comparing to the one and only make of .375 Ruger brass.

Hornady has a winner.

Keep your stinking Purdey's away from this darling that belongs in a modern rifle. Considered a titanium/stainless/synthetic based on a Satterlee Mauser action anyone?

RIP posted some data on the 375r a few messages down. average 2657 fps with 300g. I can easily get 2600 from an H&H and still be a few grains under max published loads. Hornadys heavy magnum is supposedly close to 2700.

With all else equal I might guess 25-50 fps advantage to the 375R, no way its 250

If there is only a 3gr advantage to the new Ruger, I'm not sure 50fps difference wouldn't cover it. There can be that much difference between two barrels! There is no way 3grs will give anything like 250fps over the H&H...unless that H&H ammo is underloaded...which wouldn't surprise me.

John S,
That is 3.5 grains minimum difference with available brass. Not 3.0 grains. Get it right!!!

OK, I admit that I exaggerated 0.5 grains (of water capacity) out of the delta. So that would be about 0.3 grains of powder. My bad.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
John S,
That is 3.5 grains minimum difference with available brass. Not 3.0 grains. Get it right!!!

Yes Sir!

OK, I just got back from the range.

I got 2435 fps with 375HH 300gn RN

I got 2659 fps with 375R 300gn RN.

That comes out to 224 fps gain with the Ruger.

I admit I have no way to measure pressure, but would Ruger and Hornady lie ? The Ruger and HH are listed at the same pressure, 62,000.

It is what it is..........................JJ

quote:

Originally posted by JJ_Miller:


I admit I have no way to measure pressure, but would Ruger and Hornady lie ?

Well,....they have many times before.

Thanks for posting your data.

quote:

Originally posted by JJ_Miller:
OK, I just got back from the range.

I got 2435 fps with 375HH 300gn RN

I got 2659 fps with 375R 300gn RN.

That comes out to 224 fps gain with the Ruger.

I admit I have no way to measure pressure, but would Ruger and Hornady lie ? The Ruger and HH are listed at the same pressure, 62,000.

It is what it is..........................JJ

Good show.
What brand of factory ammo and what specific bullet for the .375 H&H? More than just bullet weight and type must be considered to guesstimate pressures here.

Remington Swift A-Frame 300-grain pressures were excessive at 2530 fps in my 24" M70. The next batch of Remington ammo I tested had a velocity with same bullet of about 100 fps slower, and no pressure signs.

Those numbers do not surprise me a bit. It seems every time a maker comes up with some new offering they load it to the hilt, then later on it's backed down. The 416Rem had this happen, and I bet the 300WSM will as well, if not already.
With the 3 to 5grs difference in capacity, there is no way one cartridge is going to surpass the other by 200fps unless something is jilted. Same barrel length, same bullets both loaded to EQUAL pressures should not show over 100fps difference, and I seriously doubt it would amount to that much. Anyone who reloads for a 375H&H with a normal 24" barrel knows it is no great trick to get 2500-2550fps with 300gr bullets using the proper powders and staying within published amounts. Having factory ammo making only 2435fps shows they have it downloaded...or don't know how to go about chosing the proper powder for a given application.

Guys,

You've got me totally confused w/ this argument over 3grains difference between the two cases. I thought it was long ago determined that comparing the overall volume between two different cartridges has absolutely no bearing on anything and was a common rookie mistake. When comparing different cartridges, the only measurement that may have some bearing is the volume left over in the case w/ a bullet properly seated in it. And even then, some of the more efficient powders for that particular cartridge/bullet combination may not use 100% capacity.

With that said, any one of you guys claiming that it is Xgrains difference between the two is making it up from bad data.

When the load data is pressure tested and published, we will know how many grains of what powder to reach whatever velocity at max pressure. Then you can make fairly reliable comparisons between the cartridges. Otherwise this is utter BS.

I will say this on the difference; it would not be difficult to reach published 375Ruger velocities out of a factory 23" Ruger barrel, but, you'd be hard pressed to reach published Heavy Mag H&H velocities out of most any 23" barrel. You may, but it would be an exceptionally fast barrel.

GVA

I love the 378s....an extra 40 grains to play with

I think most users of the H&H round shoot ammo that more closely approximates the "normal" loadings for the cartridge, and not this Heavy Magnum variant. And I also believe that it is not hard for any experienced reloader to match the typical published velocities of a "standard" level 375H&H 300gr load, ie 2500-2550fps, using a 23" or 24" or 25" barrel.
If this new Ruger offering beats that by 100fps or so, whoopee! I'm all for it, but to claim that it bests the old round by 200+fps isn't quite correct now, and I doubt it will be whenever tested and published load data is made available. That data will likely show the factory levels to be about all one can expect from the cartridge...and that's pretty darned good.

The old rule does work, that is, expect a percentage increase in velocity that is 1/4 of the percentage increase in case capacity.

If we give the Ruger a 6% increase in case capacity that will allow for a 1.5% increase in velocity, assuming equal pressure and equally suitable powders.

2500 X .015 = 37.5 f/s increase in velocity.

Mike

quote:

If were having a very high end custom gun on Mauser or M70, quarter rib, the works, would you pick the 375 Ruger or 375 H&H.

For the sake of the discussion we will assume the 375 Ruger last as and works etc an etc

Since I don't have a 375 caliber right now, I would pick the 375 Ruger if I was going to build one.

The 375 Ruger represents a common sense approach to me. Even though there are some forefathers.
Newton (what is that?) in jest
Dakota (proprietary cartridge in an overpriced rifle)
Steyr (anemic)
Weatherby (can you say way over the top)
RUM (not a bad cartridge but once again over the top)
And of course the H&H.

The H&H finally has some legitimate competition. That is good. The H&H is grand, but the case design is outdated and the ballistics do not dictate the use of a magnum action.

So to me one of the HUGE pluses is the rifle that it can be housed in. A standard action just like my 270's and 338-06's.

The other thing I really like is NO BELT. That is personal preference. They just aren't needed, once again a common sense approach.

I sure wouldn't sell an H&H to buy a Ruger.

But I did sell an H&H to buy a Rigby. The H&H rifle was just too heavy and clumsy to be a general hunting rifle that the H&H is famous for. Once I sold it I always thought I would buy a better hunting rifle in the H&H. But now the Ruger is available it is a viable option.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. So H&H take a bow.

Kudos to Ruger & Hornady for coming out with it.

If we didn't have choices we would all own a 223, 30-06 and an H&H. Those are middle of the road cartridges in their respective calibers.

And absolutley nothing in this world can't be taken with them.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
luv2,

as of this date, the only people hunting in Africa with the 375rugger are being paid to do so. Despite Boddington's "pimp my ride" writeup, it did not sound like he did very well with it.

Rich
DRSS

What makes you say he didn't do very well with it? I believe the report was done regarding a quickly thrown together rifle for the new round and was used by Mr. Hornady, primarily.

It baffles me that the nay-sayers can't fathom that a 375 that falls right between the 375 H&H and 375 Wby isn't any good...never will be. Its nonsense. I use these types of rifles for their intended purpose when opportunity and funds permit. I have always been a proponent of the great 375 H&H; I love my FN/Sako 375 Wby. I am jazzed as all get out with my realistically priced and well crafted 375 Hawkeye.

One of the best things to come out of its introduction is a well fought pissing match over its merits. I've enjoyed the sparring with everyone, and hard feelings is for girls.

quote:

quote:
If were having a very high end custom gun on Mauser or M70, quarter rib, the works, would you pick the 375 Ruger or 375 H&H.

For the sake of the discussion we will assume the 375 Ruger last as and works etc an etc

Since I don't have a 375 caliber right now, I would pick the 375 Ruger if I was going to build one

Pure bullshit and because you have not been invovled

Why don't you phone D'Arcy Echols or David Miller or Purdey or H&H about getting a top wood gun done in 375 Ruger.

Make the calls and you will have the answer.

Also, to cover all bases phone the Wby Custom Shop to get their opinion on doing an upgraded Safari in 375 Ruger.

Are you really saying that you will spend from $10,000 to a $100,000 for a wood rifle chambered in 375 Ruger?

Get real. Make the calls.

Mike

I would choose the 375 H&H "Period"

The Ruger would be nice, but if I were building, it would be the HH. You can get ammo anywhere for HH

quote:

Originally posted by JJ_Miller:


I got 2659 fps with 375R 300gn RN.

Compared with:

quote:

.375 H&H Magnum Heavy Magnum Centerfire Rifle Cartridge, 300-Grain Full Metal Jacket Round Nose Bullet, 2705 fps

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/87590-4283-158.html

quote:

Pure bullshit and because you have not been invovled

Why don't you phone D'Arcy Echols or David Miller or Purdey or H&H about getting a top wood gun done in 375 Ruger.

Make the calls and you will have the answer.

Why such a rude response?

I can't have an opinion because I didn't post sooner?

You asked for an opinion and I gave mine. I can't help it if you don't agree with the answer.

quote:

Are you really saying that you will spend from $10,000 to a $100,000 for a wood rifle chambered in 375 Ruger?

If your talking $10-$100K. It will not happen. I will never spend that kind of money on a rifle.

If your assumptions and my pocketbook are correct, I won't be having a rifle done by any of the above makers. Especially if they won't chamber the rifle in the cartridge I choose.

I did not participate in the ballistics pissing contest. Because I know that the Ruger is everything the H&H is in the ballistics department and possibly more.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Ruger will do ANYTHING the H&H will do. In a better handling rifle general hunting rifle IMO.

I got some news for you SuperSpeed: None of Echols, David Miller or Purdey will build a wood stocked gun for $10K. Purdey would probably do it for a bit less than $100K, but for Miller and Echols you are realistically looking at $20K+ for a proper wood stocked rifle.

Of course if chambered in .375 H&H the rifle would retain most or all of its initial value, but in the 375 Ruger it would probably lost at least 2/3 of its value right off the bat. Same if it was chambered in a wildcat round.