It is time for a larger rifle, I did my first African plains game hunt in June this year and now I want to go on a buffalo hunt. Man, Africa is all I can think about now. My line of thinking is a 375 H&H Bolt gun. What, if any, would the problems be with this rifle, it seems well made and surely cost effective ( notice I didn't say cheap).

Thanks

Unless your going to use the .375 as a dual purpose rifle, I would recommend the CZ 550 in a .458 LOTT, unless recoil is an issue.

Get a 375. It will kill any buffalo that ever walked the earth.

What results did your search turn up? This has been discussed well over 100 times on this forum alone.

If you can shoot a .375 H&H then you can shoot a .416 Rigby. The real world results are way more DEFINATIVE than with a .375H&H. My rule is shoot the biggest gun you can and put 5 shots on a paper plate offhand at 50 yrds. -Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
If you can shoot a .375 H&H then you can shoot a .416 Rigby. The real world results are way more DEFINATIVE than with a .375H&H. My rule is shoot the biggest gun you can and put 5 shots on a paper plate offhand at 50 yrds. -Rob

Absolutely 100% right.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Get a 375. It will kill any buffalo that ever walked the earth.

While I have killed Buffalo with a 470NE and 416 Rem Mag, I love shooting my CZ 375, it is almost pleasant

quote:

Originally posted by Masterifleman:
Unless your going to use the .375 as a dual purpose rifle, I would recommend the CZ 550 in a .458 LOTT, unless recoil is an issue.

First time I heard of a 458 Lott recomended for a plains game hunt! The 375 will be superb for an all arounder for all plains game and will till be bang up on a buffalo.

John

all of these posts just reinforce my good taste in purchasing a 416 Rigby. Thanks for the pat on the back...

Rich
DRSS

quote:

I love shooting my CZ 375, it is almost pleasant

I'd call mine pleasant. These are fairly heavy rifles with a wide butt and good recoil pad. Given its weight, I'd call it much more pleasant than a friend's 300 Weatherby.

You don't say what you are moving up from, but I am reading your post to suggest that a .375 or bigger is new territory for you. If you are like most people---graduating from something no bigger than a .300 magnum, the .375 is probably a good jumping off point. It's a marked step up from what you have now but not at all unmanageable. Any more of a jump in caliber would be, IMHO, unwise. On the other hand, if you are looking to move up from a 338, then skip the 375 and get a 416 or 458.

Most CZs need some TLC from a gunsmith so plan on some $$$ there. Bedding, trigger job, smoothing action, et cet.

LWD

Another vote for the 375H&H - its a proven and effective round that can serve many purposes.

Also, buying the H&H leaves the door open to acquire another toy in the future - and everyone here knows a boy can't possible have enough toys. Start thinking about Africa and before too long you'll start think of double rifles - that's y prediction. Jim

quote:

What, if any, would the problems be with this rifle, it seems well made and surely cost effective ( notice I didn't say cheap).

CZ Rifles are well made. I didnt hat any problems in the past in Africa.

Seloushunter

JTex

I have have here a CZ 416Rigby for-sale .....
Had bought it for a custom project but that fell through .
This rifle I never fired but it looks unfired ....
e-mail me for pictures ... ramrod@dejazzd.com

$950 shipped

Thanks for all the input. The largest rifles I currently shoot are 7mm Rem and 300 WSM. I am not very recoil sensitive ( I think ) but I like the 375 due to ballistics and catridge availability ( I do handload ). I have handled th CZ and think I will go that direction. Again, Thanks all.

Jim

I would recommend the CZ 458 Lott. I own one and it can put two bullets into one hole. The recoil isn't bad. It is an Ideal gun for Dangerous Game.

A little contrary advice from an owner of CZ and other big bores,from 375 to 505. My first safari rifle was a Sako 375, and I loved it so much, i used it for plainsgame as well as buffalo and lion. I think its a great beginners caliber, easy to reload for, etc. BUT I would not buy it in CZ. Nothing wrong with CZ, except they are pretty rough. Count on re-bedding, stock reinforcement, action job etc. has a great set trigger, though. Low rings are difficult to find. And the rifle is BULKY. It is sized for a 416 or 458 Lott.
You would, in my humble opinion, do much better with a somewhat lighter rifle. Shoot it often, get used to it, and then use it for everything until bitten by the bug for a 416 (only a matter of time, I assure you).300 grains in the right place is better than 700 elsewhere, and with the 375, you are much more likely to get it in the right place. The Sako hunter is for me ideal in 375. I know, its not controlled round feed, but with dangerous game you will have a PH backing you up, and chances of a jam are minuscule. When you graduate to a real stopping rifle, look for CRF then. Good luck! whatever you choose, shoot it a lot.

There are better ways to go for the 375 than the CZ. IMHO the are too heavy and bulky for a 375, I would look into finding a Model 70 Winchester or a Interarms Whitworth, sure they are going to cost more but you will be further ahead with a better balanced rifle for the caliber in question. I have a CZ in 416 and it is a good starting point towards a ok 416 just too big a package for a 375.

HBH

I haven't been able to find any feeding/trigger, or other issues with either my CZ416 Rigby or my FS in 9,3x62. IMHO, too many people expect a $4000 rifle for $950. It's not a custom made, one at a time DG rifle, fer gosh'sakes! Nobody here has come up with a competitive 416 Rigby or 458 Lott for twice the price. Everyone says the Ruger RSM is a friggin' brick! Everything else is $4000+ and, oh by the way, a year long wait or more. If you hadn't posted here the guy would buy one, and be happy as a pig in mud on a 120-degree summer day! If he ignores you and buys one he still will be. The 416 Rigby is capable of hunting Orcas out on the ice floes.

Let it rest...

Rich
DRSS
proud, happy multi CZ owner.

No, everyone does not say the Ruger RSM is a friggin'brick. I for one like the weight and balance of the Ruger RSM.

I conducted a poll here on AR comparing the Ruger RSM to the CZ and the Ruger RSM won the voting by the AR members. In fact, there are several threads that discuss these two rifles if you do a search.

Keep the facts straight.

one must qualify those statements and poll results by stating that I was the only one that posted who had OWNED and shot both as far I know; and the fact that most of those polled did NOT own either. It was a baby-kissing contest, not an adoption center.

Not to hijack the thread, and no offense, but it was like one of those public opinion polls where they ask you if you would mind a minority moving into the house next door and everyone says no...and we all know better than that. The minority family we don't mind buying or renting the house next to ours are solid middle class, both have jobs, and are rather conservative...not the gang that Health & Welfare moved in at government expense, and subsidized housing, to give them an idea of how regular tax-paying folks live with the hope that it will rub off.

regards,

Rich
DRSS

I've never shot a .375 H&H that wasn't very accurate for a hunting rifle. I really like CZ rifles; a little heavy for their chambering, but good shooters. Rugers always feel club like to me.

Idaho Sharpshooter:

What makes you assume that on this entire AR website you are the only person that have owned both the Ruger RSM and the CZ? Assumptions are not facts.

You use to post the name and contact information of the gun store you work for and for some reason you stopped that practice? Are you an authorized CZ dealer? My preception is that you are not an authorized Ruger dealer. Is there a business conflict? Disclose the brands you are authorized to carry and state your business interest so that readers are fully informed to evaluate your comments.

Remember, "just the facts ma'am, just the facts"

quote:

Originally posted by Indlovu:
The Sako hunter is for me ideal in 375. I know, its not controlled round feed, but with dangerous game you will have a PH backing you up, and chances of a jam are minusculeWhen you graduate to a real stopping rifle, look for CRF then.. Good luck! whatever you choose, shoot it a lot.

SAKOs are very well made rifles, with two serious draw backs! In larger chamberings, which means 375 H&H in Sako's case, the rifle is not equipt with a barrel recoil lug, and I've seen three sheer off the front action screw, from movement in the stock chambered for 375 H&H. However that can be overcome by simply adding the recoil lug, and properly bedding the rifle. In lighter chamberings, there is no problem! The second problem is the real Booga-Boo,IMO, and that is for a DGR it is a push feed rifle.

NOW! Right here I can hear you rushing to the key board, and spilling your coffee, to get in a responce! I think you have already responded, with the bold print above, so save it! I simply disagree!

One should never go into the weeds with dangerous game depending solely on a PH to pull his nuts out of the fire, because the PH may be the first hit, and you my be left to shoot something off him! It has happened before,ask Johan Calitz, if he has had a client shoot a buffalo off his butt! IMO, it is a mistake to assume a PH is going to save your bacon, and the first Buffalo you encounter, may be the one that turns that PF 375H&H Sako into a "STOPPING RIFLE" for you!

Of course, the PF may do you well for many years, and never give you a problem with the PF system, and if a PF rifle floats your boat, set sail, but it ain't for me! I say go CRF, or hunt nothing meaner than a deer!

This post is not a flame, but simply my opinion, and worth exactly what you paid for it!

Well JTEX is getting an education I'm sure! I have CZs in both 375 and 416. I have not hunted with either (yet) but both are extremely accurate and heavy. The 375 is a big and heavy gun, probably heavier than the 416 as I suspect that the same barrel blank is used and just a smaller hole "drilled" through the middle, making the 375 heavier than the 416 ( I have not verified this myself). The 375 has a long barrel, 25.5' as I recollect. This probably does not make it a "fast handling" gun in the bush, but probably helps it for longer range shooting. Never having hunted with it, I cannot comment on those features, however I do like the weight, the accuracy and the price! I have not made any of the "must have" modifications referred to above eg. bedding, extra recoil lug etc. I consider the fact that is is a CRF to be a significant plus.
Peter.

If you catch the "African" disease it will never leave you-until you tire of life.
You will love a 416 Rigby.I think mine is great.
But,to be honest,a 500 Nitro double is better still.And yes,I have used both on large bovines.

Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. I've had a couple of the big CZs. First was a Rigby, don't know if we get the same guns in Canada as you guys but the Rigby was a very nice gun. It had a single crossbolt, I bedded it and commenced shooting. It fed smoothly with no issues what so ever. It was very accurate with everything I put though it. I mostly shot 350 TSXs at 2800 fps. Foolishly traded it away, as I have a CRF Mod. 70 .416 Rem. Now I'm going to find another. The other was a CZ USA 375 in a factory laminated stock. Again a very nice rifle but for a 375 WAY too heavy, 10.25 lbs empty. They're a bit tougher to bed with the F block but excellent guns for the big rounds.

Now that most everyone has voted for everything under the sun, just get a 375 like I said!

If you decide it is just too little gun, it is a no-brainer to go up, like my 375 converted to 416 Rem.

jtex- you mentioned that your already set up for handloading so the 416rigby would be a good all around big bore and I understand that it's just a barrel swap away from being a 500A-2. I like the 375H&H very much but you have the 300 for plains game so why not go bigger? Of course I didn't mention that I already had 3 375H&H's and only 1 416rigby, and yes I've bigger in the safe but the rigby has a cool factor. R.

bul,

never worked a day in a gunstore in my entire life. My preferences are based on actually owning rifles or other firearms and shooting them; no more, no less. In the past seventeen years, I have had more rifles built than bought "off the rack", probably twice as many.

Spent a lot of time as a guest in the shop with a friend of 29 years who was the gunsmith there the past eight or nine years. Out here there are two kinds of customers: ones who just walk in to see if something is in stock, or how much/long to get it, and the loafers. We loafers, find a favorite gunshop (or if we're lucky, two) based on competency and convivial attitude, and we hang out there. He takes a lot of interest in things I got going, and is generous with his time teaching me things on the equipment. As a fr'instance; I had my brother's 650gr RFN mould he uses in his Shiloh 50-90. He showed me how to use a tapered pin reamer to to make a die that would reduce those cast, gas checked, sized, and lubricated bullets (.511") to .5065" so I could shoot them in another friend's 505 Gibbs. He showed me how to set up the lathe to turn casenecks for my BR rifles. Buy one of those Lee case trimmers and put the cases in one at a time in the lathe chuck. Turn a mandrel about .001" over the bullet diameter. Put that in the tailstock and set the cutter to the depth you want to cut the caseneck thickness to. Zip-Zip-Zip, I can do a case every 20 seconds. A million little things like that.

He fit, chambered and headspaced my 510KX barrel and did the framerails work. He walked me thru it, and I posted here about that last summer. He's doing my 550 Gibbs, and will do another in 475Gibbs as soon as the 550 is done and Tomo gets my other Wickliffe 76 action to me over the winter.

I did take your offer of sorts, and went to Cabela's to check. The Rooger is nearly 1/4" wider, significantly heavier, IIRC. The RSM is perfectly proportioned for a 505 Gibbs, but fat and heavy for anything much smaller.

I just walked out to the shop and weighed my CZ in 416 Rigby...nine pounds, two ounces on a postal scale with rings, but no scope. What does your Ruger weigh?

I stand by what I said earlier.

Rich
DRSS

The CZ IS overbuilt for 375. much better choice is a whiworth express in 375 (if you are convinced that you MAY have to shoot a charging buff while not upright). One listed on gunbroker right now, http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=78086754
I have a whitworth 458 rechambered to 458 lott, Much better rifle than my CZ in 505.

quote:

Originally posted by Indlovu:
The CZ IS overbuilt for 375. much better choice is a whiworth express in 375 (if you are convinced that you MAY have to shoot a charging buff while not upright). One listed on gunbroker right now, http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=78086754
I have a whitworth 458 rechambered to 458 lott, Much better rifle than my CZ in 505.

I think you meant to link to this auction.

Why waste money on a clunker 375 H&H unless it's something vintage and you enjoy using ancient gear. Do the 416 Rigby in whatever rifle you like and spend some money ONE time. If I had to rely on a single rifle it would be a Custom MK V in .378 . Open sights zero'd for 50 yards and as big ass glass as you can afford zero'd for 300. One rifle for 50-500 yards. Really only need two loads. 270 Grain TSX and some kind of 300 Grain solid. Maybe have some really light 200 grain stuff for pigs.

Whether you like the Ruger Safari or the CZ-550 (ZKK-602) seems to be more about personal preference then anything.

I own both a CZ-550 .458 Lott and a ZKK-602 .416 Rem., my buddy has a Ruger .416 Rigby, so I have shot and handled both. IMHO the CZ's are better handling, better balanced rifles; the Ruger barrel is too heavy. They are very forward weighted. This could be an advantage in terms of recoil characteristic, the rifle might not jump as much as the CZ.

The Ruger is a more attractive looking rifle and I am sure that your Cape Buffalo will appreciate that.

I do not think you can go wrong with either, but I suggest you handle each before spending any $$$.

The idea of finding a Win M-70 is an excellent one if you can find one for a good price.

In this price range (? up to $1200??) you are apparently considering the Ruger, the CZ, a Sako and a Whitworth.

I have owned and shot the CZ, Sako and Whitworth.

Have hunted with the Sako and someone else's Ruger

The Whitworth is the nicest of the bunch- nice feel, solid but not too heavy, barrel sling mount (my pet feature)

I also liked my Sako, but non CRF (no biggie) but with a stock mount sling swivel

The Ruger is solid and nice, but a bit heavy and clubby for my taste

I wouldn't go near a CZ again unless I planned on turing it over to a smith for a complete rework, stock reshape etc.

I basically agree with the flow of the majority of posters here

You have to jump up to 3-4,ooo to get anything significantly better...

Idaho Sharpshooter:

If you know anything about firearms, then you know that the weight of a firearm is relative and the balance of a firearm is critical. Which brings me back to your post that everyone thinks the Ruger M77 RSM is a friggin'brick. Everyone does not think that. I like the balance and weight of the Ruger M77 RSM. Further, you are not the only person on the AR website that has OWNED and shot both. What possess you to even consider making such a statement?

The over-the-counter Ruger M77 RSM and the CZ 550 are not competing for the same customer. CZ is aware of this which is why they now offer actions only for sale, but not everyone wants the custom rifle experience. Ruger is aware of this which is why they don't change pricing and have introduced the .375 Ruger in the Hawkeye product line. Retailers place the RSM inside locked custom glass presentation displays while the CZ 550 sets on the racks next to the Ruger Hawkeyes.

Just the facts, Idaho Sharpshooter, just the facts.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
one must qualify those statements and poll results by stating that I was the only one that posted who had OWNED and shot both as far I know; and the fact that most of those polled did NOT own either.

Rich:

I presently own both. The CZ's are a 9,3X62, .404 Jeffery as well as a .500 Jeffery. The Ruger magnum is a .375 H&H.

Out of the box, the Ruger is finished better. I really don't think you have to do much to them. However, they are indeed barrel heavy and the .375 H&H is way, way to heavy for a .375. I think it weighs in at 10 lbs. If I was going to buy the Ruger, I would opt for a .416 Rigby. The Rigby is a bit lighter than the .375 and, since it has a "full length" action, you might as well get the Rigby and take advantage of that long action. IMHO the RSM in .416 Rigby may be the best "buy" on the market today in a dangerous game rifle. It is a fine rifle at a very reasonable price considering what you get.

My CZ's have much better balance but my .404, like my .375, is much heavier than it needs to be. The wood on my .404 is excellent. The .500 is in a very attractive brown laminate stock which I selected for the added strength. I would not hesitate to buy another CZ and like them very much. In fact, I am thinking about adding a .416 Rigby just for fun. Again, you might as well take advantage of the long action, right? They are a real bargain but perhaps not as nice as the Ruger but then again the Ruger costs more.

I am not at all sure this makes much difference in a DG rifle where shots are usually not very long but my CZ's really shoot! My .404 will cluster 400 grain Woodleighs into nice tiny little groups all day long as will my 9,3X62 with 270 Speers.

Both the Ruger and the CZ's feed like butter.

I guess I would have to say they are both excellent guns but the Ruger is finished a little nicer but that's to be expected since they cost about 50% more.

Dave

The above comments on the heavy weight of the Ruger RSM and the CZ in 375 H&H leave me rubbing my hands in anticipation of the first batch of Ruger Hawkeyes in 375 Ruger which are on their way over to New Zealand.
At 7.75 plus a scope they should weigh about 8.75 lbs, that should be great

I agree oldun. The lose of the M70 and the addition of the .375 Ruger Hawkeye changed the the factory rifle playing field.

Charles, thanks for the lesson on adding links. I am still feeling my way around this incredible website. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaastill think the 375 whitworth is the best way togo for < 1000 K

I just dug this old post up and wanted to thank all of you for your input and help.

Since this original post I have acquired a 375 H&H, 416 Rigby and 458 Lott in the Ruger RSM. A 375 H&H and 458 Win Mag in the Whitworth, and a 458 Lott in a win M70 Classic.

All are great and fun rifles. I think, like many said, I like the Whitworth most in the 375 H&H, both the 375 and 458 are extremely accurate, easily MOA at 100yds, well made and well balanced, classy rifles.

I really love the RSM Rigby, a ball to shoot and MOA accuracy at 100yds!!!!!!!!

The Lotts.........both shoot great...and are fun to shoot......I would rather shoot the Ruger and I would rather carry the Winchester.

I never bailed into the CZ's just didn't like the looks or feel but they seem a good buy.

Again thanks for all the advice and help.

You know it's silly , having all these big bores but man what fun it is shooting them and you sure get a lot of attention at the range.

I am really thinking that the Rigby RSM and the Whitworth 375 are the rifles going with me to Zim in August.