I attended a big bore shoot here in Phoenix a couple months ago. I was shooting my Ruger RSM .458 Lott. I was cycling the gun from the shoulder at a buff target that was on wheels and charging you. The gun feeds perfect but I found that when I snapped the bolt handle down the sear and firing pin would follow the bolt down just like when you hold the trigger back and lower the bolt. The gun would not discharge but I had to lift the bolt handle and put it back down to re-cock it. Any ideas on how to fix this or have any other Ruger RSM shooter had this issue? Click picture for a video of the Buff shoot. It was a fun event.

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The trigger adjustment spring is set to light and the sear isn't being held against the bolt slap possibly. Take it to a 'smith to adjust.

Some Rugers have an adjustment screw on the trigger...a tiny allen head set screw...your owners manual should have that information or goto Brownells and look at the schematic. Turn it clockwise...insert the wrench and pull it down...a full turn at least then cycle it with some dumbies...back if off CounterClockwise until it starts doing it again then tighten it a half turn.

Keep doing that until it's 100%...

Or send it back to Ruger...

Luck

Yep, ditto FOOBAR.
With an unloaded rifle, cock it and then drop it butt first onto the recoil pad on a concrete floor from 6" to a foot off the floor.
Does the firing pin release/dry-fire then?
If so, that is another sign of need for a trigger adjustment.

This issue was discussed by Don Heath when evaluating DG rifles at the Zim PH exams.

Here is the relevant analysis:

Then we come to one that surprises me. Ruger. The early Ruger M77's with the non rotating claw extractors but still a push feed mechanism, in .458 Win could be relied upon to jam if the bolt was worked quickly. In the 1980's the National Parks culling teams found this out the hard way and the new Rugers were quickly disposed of or issued to stations where a heavy rifle was seldom required. The new MkII Ruger with a proper controlled feed seemed to be a vast improvement and were reputed to work a whole lot better and of course come at a top dollar price. I learned differently. All but one out of seven I've seen or handled this year (6 in .416 Rigby and one .458 Win) would not eject if the bolt was opened vigorously. Slow down just a fraction and they throw the empty case half way into the next province. For a client coming out to Africa this may be acceptable. Any really fast fancy shooting is going to be the PH's.

quote:

Originally posted by 404WJJeffery:
This issue was discussed by Don Heath when evaluating DG rifles at the Zim PH exams.

Here is the relevant analysis:

Then we come to one that surprises me. Ruger. The early Ruger M77's with the non rotating claw extractors but still a push feed mechanism, in .458 Win could be relied upon to jam if the bolt was worked quickly. In the 1980's the National Parks culling teams found this out the hard way and the new Rugers were quickly disposed of or issued to stations where a heavy rifle was seldom required. The new MkII Ruger with a proper controlled feed seemed to be a vast improvement and were reputed to work a whole lot better and of course come at a top dollar price. I learned differently. All but one out of seven I've seen or handled this year (6 in .416 Rigby and one .458 Win) would not eject if the bolt was opened vigorously. Slow down just a fraction and they throw the empty case half way into the next province. For a client coming out to Africa this may be acceptable. Any really fast fancy shooting is going to be the PH's.

that is on the original PUSH FEED m77, not the RSM, which is not the same action at all. the RSM is a CRF and a much larger, in all dimensions than the m77

Tho I have never owned or fired a RSM . Your troubles are the seaR engagement .usually caused by too light a trigger pull . However a little peice of something can get into the works to keep th sear from moving freely or rapidly . What has your trigger pull weight been and has it changed reciently . < too light a trigger return spring can cause it also. Lest people think Ruger M77mkII s are unreliable , I would have been a bloddy mess in the brush several times if that were th case having shot for my life as many times and mine worked perfectly . But any rifle can malfunction so the shoots you participate in are great

Post done on motorola milestone .

Thanks for the information.

This shoot was the first time I had experienced this issue. But I don't think I was cycling the action quite this fast in my earlier practice sessions. As you can see in the video it took me about 3 seconds to digest the nature of the malfunction before I cycled another round in. It is a good thing that it was a very slow buff… LOL.

Not to change the subject too much but are you going to be at the next shoot? I couldn't make the last one but I would love to come out and try next time. I think its the end of Jan, like the 30th, IIRC.

@ 10MM I am not sure yet. I have a lot going on at work. If I don't make this one I will try to hit the next one. I took the scope off of my Lott and I need to shoot the irons again and check the zero before I go shoot another match as well. It was a fun shoot. It is a very low key shoot with some very nice guys attending. It is not a match for shooters that take the competition part seriously. .

So do I understand it correctly that you have since confirmed that when you cycle the bolt smartly on an empty chamber that the trigger does release the sear from this jarring and the firing pin drops? If this is correct, something is keeping the trigger from fully engaging the sear, the spring tension is too light, and/or the actual sear engagement is too shallow.

My two previous RSMs had the standard non-adjustable trigger/sears. Your only options were to alter/replace the spring and/or modify the engagement angles. There were no screw adjustments to change this engagement. From the factory, both were set with a very deep "lawyer proof" engagement, with ample tension. They had a bit of creep and a bit of movement before the sear would release. You could probably drop both rifles off the top of a building onto pavement and it would not be enough jarring to drop the firing pin.

So if the above is correct, did someone monkey with the trigger/sear?? If this is not the case, are you confident that you fully closed the bolt on that second shot where it did not fire? The reason I ask this, by the video, it is clear that you fully withdrew the bolt to the rear after the 1st shot and this empty case was thrown clear by the ejector. It is clear that the 2nd round was picked up by the bolt as you slammed it home. But the sound of you slamming the bolt closed was weak and different as if you did not fully close the bolt. If you fully slammed the bolt closed on the live round with the firing pin released, why didn't this set off the round??? If the bolt was only partially closed and you pulled the trigger, the bolt handle would then fall and close by itself and the firing pin would ride the bolt home. I could see this not set off the live round.

You then repeated this operation ejecting the unfired round and closed the bolt on a 3rd round. But this time you can hear that you fully slammed the bolt closed. Have you ruled out this operator error from the stress of the event????

I no longer own the RSMs, but the trigger/sear system was the same as the standard mkII. This info would be valuable for anyone operating those rifles. Thanks in advance for your feedback to my posted questions.

Best

ttt

I'm still curious reference my above posted questions. It would be a good issue to vet out and resolve for anyone using a Ruger mkII. If it turns out to be a gun smithing issue or even operator error, it would be a good issue to resolve for everyone's knowledge.

Thanks

+1 since I have a few RSM's and this has never happened with my 458 Lott. Heck if I need that kind of speed I just grab my Searcy double and blast away 2 quick shots.

Brad

gunboot458 is right, there isn't enough sear engagement. It happens a lot to me after I've worked over a trigger, it's one of the first things you have to check before using it seriously. It's not a Ruger RSM problem, and being pretty familiar with the stock trigger on a Ruger I'll bet it's been worked on.

I run into this a lot when setting triggers for a light pull. As mentioned, it is a problem with about any trigger, not just Ruger. Generally from too littel sear engagement is my opinion. This is something I have really fought in the past with aftermarket Remington 700 triggers.

The other problem mentioned above has been discussed at length before; i.e. failure to eject when cycling too fast. I have never experienced this, but I have read repots that it is relatively easy to fix with a stronger spring to pop the ejector out into the path of the bolt/empty case. This is a problem peculiar to Rugers.

I wanted to say thank you for the interest and feedback on my issue. Due to normal issues in a working mans life I have not had time to work on the rifle and follow thru with the information that has been posted. I will follow up when I have the solution. Thank you.

A lot of folks that shoot lighter calibers with very light triggers try to apply this to a big bore and I suspect that to be a poor practice. Re-adjust your trigger to 3.5 to 4 pounds.

I like a pretty heavy trigger on a big bore with lots of contact. Reliability is first and foremost in all instances with big bore and this requires some trade offs. I like a 4 pound trigger that breaks crisp and clean on a big bore.