I am looking at buying another Dangerous Game rifle for a future trip. I already have a CZ550 in 375 H&H, but was thinking about getting a larger, more powerful caliber. Now in my younger days I would pull the trigger on most any gun in most any caliber, but now as my body has matured (my wife debates whether I have matured mentally) I am more sensitive to recoil.Havent decided if the gun will be a double or a bolt, nor do I know which caliber. If I use a 10 lb rifle as a constant, how would the larger calibers stack up in terms of recoil? I have been considering the 416 Rem, but saw a good deal on a 470 double. Help!

The 470NE has ballistics very close to that of a .458Lott. Given your issue with recoil, I'd opt for a .416Rem. You will find it has only a bit more recoil than a .375 and you'll never feel it in the field. I have both the Lott and the Rem .416 an think the 416Rem is an outstanding round. If you haven't already, get yourself a PAST pad for your shoulder - they have three thicknesses to choose from - to use during practice.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

The 416 Rem will work well, and recoil won't be noticeably different than your 375, assuming that the rifle is of proper weight. Another moderate recoil round is the 404 Jeffery (in a magazine rifle) or the 450-400 (in a DR). They've been taking Africa's largest game for years. If you want to go up in bullet weight, another option would be to try a 458 Winchester. The new ammunition available today makes them an effective African round, it is available in reasonably-priced rifles, and ammunition cost is reasonable. When shooting at the range, use a Lead Sled, or at least a bag of shot or sand behind the butt.

Why not a 416 Rigby in a CZ550? Then you don't have to really learn a whole new gun, just the recoil

I think Mile High had good advice. Get a 416 Rigby in a CZ 550.

I have an 11 pound with scope, sling and ammo 450 Dakota on a modified CZ, and without scope or sling it is 10 pounds.

I shoot a ten pound 375 improved (300 grain at 2800 fps) and with a target sling I can still shoot it prone.

WIth a std CZ barrel you can put a heavy scope on the 416 and get the rifle up to 10 pounds I think. If you can afford it nothing better than a Swarovski 1.1 x 6 straight 30mm tube.

I have owned an 8.5 pound Dakota including scope and rings in 416 Remington and while it kicked was OK. Only problem was angle of pistol grip was too straight. Would have ben fine for a 300 however. You will be fine with a CZ 416 Rigby.

Andy

Also up for consideration would be some type of recoil reducing device in the buttstock or even a muzzle brake.

quote:

Originally posted by Poochuss:
I am looking at buying another Dangerous Game rifle for a future trip. I already have a CZ550 in 375 H&H, but was thinking about getting a larger, more powerful caliber. Now in my younger days I would pull the trigger on most any gun in most any caliber, but now as my body has matured (my wife debates whether I have matured mentally) I am more sensitive to recoil.Havent decided if the gun will be a double or a bolt, nor do I know which caliber. If I use a 10 lb rifle as a constant, how would the larger calibers stack up in terms of recoil? I have been considering the 416 Rem, but saw a good deal on a 470 double. Help!

Here is a recoil calculator that is quick and easy.

http://www.huntamerica.com/recoil_calculator/

In theory the 416 and 470 are in the same ballpark recoil-wise but most butt stocks on doubles have a lot of drop and, for me, increases the felt recoil enormously. Your mileage may vary.

If it were I, given the choice, I'd go with a straight stocked Krieghoff 470.

You can always load light practice loads in you guns to reduce recoil. I shoot alot of 400 grain speer pistol bullets in my 470 for practice. Very little recoil and gets you familar to the gun. When hunting you will never notice recoil. Also I have been working on something to help people with recoil when shooting off a bench. It is a very simple solution and Michael M and I have tested it and both like it. I have a company making this now and hope to have some available soon for folks to try. Watch the Terminals for updates.

Sam

get a cz 550 in 458 lott
get a metric ton of rem 405gr bullets
load them, starting, at 1800 fps .. shoot 20 .. go home..

next range visit, shoot 3-5 with 1800, then the rest of 20 at 1900 fps ...

repeat till you are at 2400fps ...

restart with 500gr bullets at 2000 fps ... step up 50 fps...

in about 2 months, you will be shooting the 500gr pills, at 2200-2250, with no problem.

I think Jeffeosso has the best suggestion. I do the same each spring as in Alaska I don't shoot in the sub zero winters. Each spring I begin with my .450-400 and move up from there each practice session. Your body and mind will get used to it. I have tried taking my first shot in the spring (after 7 months of no shooting) with a .600 or 4-bore and it is difficult. I believe the mind needs to get used to it first, the physical limitations will come in place. This spring I will do the same and it works (for me, anyway) each year.
Cheers,
Cal

quote:

In theory the 416 and 470 are in the same ballpark recoil-wise but most butt stocks on doubles have a lot of drop and, for me, increases the felt recoil enormously. Your mileage may vary.

Will has it right. Stock fit plays a large roll in how much recoil you feel.
A 10 lb rifle with a stock that does not fit will feel much more uncomfortable recoilwise than a 9 lb rifle that fits you.
A good pad, a Past, muzzle brake, etc. will also help.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
The 416 Rem will work well, and recoil won't be noticeably different than your 375, assuming that the rifle is of proper weight. Another moderate recoil round is the 404 Jeffery (in a magazine rifle) or the 450-400 (in a DR). They've been taking Africa's largest game for years. If you want to go up in bullet weight, another option would be to try a 458 Winchester. The new ammunition available today makes them an effective African round, it is available in reasonably-priced rifles, and ammunition cost is reasonable. When shooting at the range, use a Lead Sled, or at least a bag of shot or sand behind the butt.

Biebs,

Do you shoot your doubles on a Lead-Sled? I use one a lot for working up loads in bolt-rifles. Was told to NOT shoot my double in a Lead-sled.

What say you my mentor of DR's???

All the advice you have been given is good, here's mine. The only thing you care about is felt recoil. This can be reduced several ways. For me, the most important is stock fit. A stock that is straight will give you less rise into your cheek which is where most people feel recoil the most. Next, gun weight. You want the gun as heavy as is reasonable for you. There are several in-stock recoil reducers that can help with this. Third is a quality recoil pad like the XLT. Fourth, a muzzle brake to be used while target praticing. While hunting remove the brake and screw on the thread protector.You won't feel the recoil while hunting. The most important thing is practice, a lot. You can make anything shootable.....Tom

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
You can always load light practice loads in you guns to reduce recoil. I shoot alot of 400 grain speer pistol bullets in my 470 for practice. Very little recoil and gets you familar to the gun. When hunting you will never notice recoil. Also I have been working on something to help people with recoil when shooting off a bench. It is a very simple solution and Michael M and I have tested it and both like it. I have a company making this now and hope to have some available soon for folks to try. Watch the Terminals for updates.

Sam

Look forward to seeing your invention Sam!

There's FAR more to recoil than just calibre so don't think one calibre will necessarily bite you more than another.

Stock design, weight and whether you have a recoil arrestor fitted or not are at least as equally important as calibre and probably more so.

Get it set up right and whether it's a 416, 458 or 500, it'll shoot just fine and not give you any worries. Get it set up wrong and even a .375 will bloody hurt!

The late Dr Kay Hiscocks was a PH, Zoologist and the skinniest little thing you ever saw in your life..... a wet dishcloth weighed more than she did and yet she shot her 458 Lott without any problems whatsoever..... and the reason for that was she'd had the rifle set up properly.

Shakari is correct. The gun that hurt me the most was an ill fitting Rem. 700 30-06. Next was a .416 Rigby in a CZ. I have the same gun in a .458 Lott that I won't fire again until I get a different stock or sell it. Any takers?.....Tom

I have a past recoil pad that covers my shoulder
I also have a sand bag that I used before I bought the past shoulder mount.

The 470NE is a very manageable calibre, and extremely accurate, also the ammo is in abundance, the choice seems simple.

Lane,
Lane, I wasn't sure, but Graeme Wright, one of the most experienced DR guys around (author of Shooting the British Double Rifle), says that he checked the regulation of a number of DRs both from a standing bench and a Lead Sled, and there was no discernable difference. I've been doing it ever since. I don't use the new Lead Sled, where you can put 4-25 lb bags of shot on it. I use the original style, and 1 or 2 bags, depending on caliber. You want the gun to be able to move with the recoil, both to simulate offhand shooting and to prevent stock damage. DRs are NOT as good at handling recoil as a bolt rifle, in my experience, so being able to shoot comfortably, when checking loads or just gaining familiarity, is important. Give it a try!

Jon

quote:

What say you my mentor of DR's???

Me? Lane, you have VERY low standards!

I've broken stocks in a lead sled on a 458 Lott. I only did that once. Now I just grin and bear it. If one is going to be used, I would recommend no more than 25 pounds on it.