Ray,

Tried to send a PM previously but it went into the black hole....just in case you receive two similar messages......

I'm left handed, live on reasonable but not extravagant income (so a Johanssen, Dakota or 33/44 or other custom/semi-custom action is NOT currenly an option) and I am considering my big bore (larger than .375) rifle options. I REALLY like what you have and how you relate your .404J experience (I've read most of your recent posts). I also know my limitations and I am NOT big bore literate - yet.

I've currently boiled my (relatively uninformed) selection down to three potential caliber options, the .404J, the .416 Taylor and the .458 Winchester (already relegated to the third option). Your current comments on the .404J have from MHO been spot-on.

1. What would you suggest as the best read/book to bring me up to African big bore speed?
2. Will the .404J fit in a standard length L/H action like the .416 Taylor?
3. What is the difference between the 10.75x63, 10.75x68 and the .404J?

Thanks for taking the time.....Just didn't want to jump into the middle of the .404 Weak?????? fray with all the doomsday soothsayers.....whew!

Thanks,

Gerry

Just in case spot-on Ray has become too senile to respond , you should consider that anyone going afield with a .404 Jeffery shows strong suicidal tendencies. The 416 Rem. and Taylor though are quite adequate.

in the field, at "nominal loads" there's no practical diff in the 416 taylor andd 404 jeffe

400s at about 2300 seems reasonable for anything that walks, swims, or crawls.

considering the ease of the 416 taylor (it's SUPER easy to take a 458 or 7 rem and rebarrel) this is the most practical route.

jeffe

Jeff,
I agree with your statements. However when you load a 404J up to higher velocities for a strong modern action you benefit even more.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Just in case spot-on Ray has become too senile to respond , you should consider that anyone going afield with a .404 Jeffery shows strong suicidal tendencies. The 416 Rem. and Taylor though are quite adequate.

Is there an OK corral in Kansas?

Gerry,

It's best not to listen to Will. As far as I tell he's been in a age and senile demensia, semi vegitative state for some time now. He only comes out of it when the doc injects him with adrenaline so that he can take get up to take a crap and while sitting there post a few cantankerous yet meaningless words of wisdom.

Yet of the calibers you mentioned the .416 and the .458 would be the most practical. As far as killability (Technical term) They are are all pretty evenly matched.

Good luck. The .416 needs a magnum length action as does the .404J.The .458 will fit in a standard length action.

The 404J is a problem round until such time as we get proper magazines for them in M-70s and in Mausers...at least from a custom gun standpoint...I work around that but at great expense..Perhaps the new CZ is the answer???

The Taylor is a wildcat and with the ever extending legislation in foriegn countries I wouldn't own one...

The solution is simple, the 416 Remington, it is a fine cartridge, its easy to build on any standard action, Win M-70, Mauser 98 and it will kill anything that walks, talks, breaths or crawls...can be had in most commercial rifles and components are cheap and readily available at reasonalbe costs...

Just my opinnion as best bet for for a beginner, and I wouldn't be without one, and I have been at it a long time....I have two 416 Rems. as a matter of fact..One 404 that I'm building...

10.75x63 ???? don;t have any experience with it.

10.75x68: Easy to build on a std Mauser, just rebarrel and chamber, tweek the bolt face maybe and maybe tweek the rails on some actions..It will duplicate the original 404 balistics with a 350 gr. bullet at 2375 and a 400 at 2150 FPS, Brass from Horneber..Fantastic caliber but specialized for nuts like myself, has no practicality at all......won't compare to a 404J that can be loaded to 2600 FPS with proper tube and a 400 gr. bullet....

Heh, heh, yes Ray, no doubt true as you say.

Practicality says .416 Remington for 40 bore.

But the .404 Jeffery can be so much more. One just has to keep the faith that your ammo will arrive with the baggage, loaded to Jeffery Knight ballistics of your choosing.

So here is the plan:

Along with the .404 Jeffery, take a .375 Weatherby and you can use any old .375 H&H ammo that can be found. Backup.

Maybe all the bags and ammo will arrive, and your custom light sabers will cut true.

Jeffery Knights, The Force is strong in you.

A CZ 550 Magnum box with 5 down is almost cosine perfect for the .404 Jeffery. It is a better fit than for the .416 Rigby, width wise, just over long, but that leaves open the possibiltiy for long throating and pointy custom bullets, long seating North Forks, etc. Then The Force grows stronger ... or a spacer in the back of the CZ box might be all that is needed to trim up the fit to 3.6" box. Shorten box by 0.2" or less, that is all.

The M70 windowed RUM box with dippity-doo-dah alloy follower and flat spring works fine for a 3-down .404 Jeffery, but this is best in a stainless and synthetic African Sheep Rifle.

I have a CZ .404 Jeffery on order.

The Force is with me.

Gerry

Very fond of my .404's but Ray's comments are right. Most .404's I have seen or handeled have some sort of feeding trouble. The slightly tapered case and the long shoulder and over long neck seem to give problems.

I wrote to Ruger about 8 years back when we heard rumours that they were bringing out a M77 in .404, with the request that Zim parks be informed as we wanted to purchse a couple hundred. Ruger replied that they were having feeding troubles and wouldn't release the rifle until the problem was solved... Not yet obviously.

My own G&H feeds fine but it is very difficult to top up the magazine, and impossible to do eyes off. You have to seet each cartridge perfectly in the mag for it to stay there. My H&H on a post war F.N. M98 action works like a dream, but have seen too many custom rifles and cheeper English grades fail.

Also, there seems to be some difference in chambering reamers. One American and one South African custom rifle maker supply rifles that will not reliably fire RWS factory Ammo. Shoulder angle appears different, or perhaps just badly headspaced (that long shoulder makes getting the headspace difficult apparantly).

For An American comming on Safari buy a Winchester M70 in .416 Rem and enjoy. The .404 is an enthusiasts cartrige unless you can find an old 1st grade Brit rifle, one of the 23 original Obendorf Mausers ( marked 10.75x73) or somebody finally gets a new rifle right.

10.75x68 - great round for lion- skip for buff.

Gerry, why did you set your heart on (amongst others) the .416 Taylor, as opposed to the factory .416 Rem?? Just curious.
- mike

Ganyana,
What is sad is that there is no reasom what so ever that this feeding problem should exist, all anyone has to do is copy the original Mauser 404 magazine "exactly".....Sunny Hill, blackburn or Wisner could do that and never bat an eye, but is there a market? that may be the kicker....

The Taylor is not an option in my opinnion, as the ever changing and stricter rulings coming out of Africa will soon effect all wildcats, as I am sure they are going to start enforcing caliber head stamps at some point..A few cases have actually popped up lately, and I have never heard of this in the past, only rumor and inuindo of it happening. Maybe those guy read AR, who knows....

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:

The Taylor is a wildcat and with the ever extending legislation in foriegn countries I wouldn't own one....

and so was the lott, all weatherbys, the 450 rigby (the modern one) and the 416 hoffman!!!

headstamped brass is readily available.. end of that discussion....

"geting a 500$ bottommetal" means speading more on that the rest ofthe mods...

even I, 10 thumbed and hammerhanded, can get a taylor to feed in any "short" magnum action....

dies and LOADED ammo are available from midway..

brass is common as 22 shells...

bullets are covered from one end to the other..

doesn't require lengthening any thing in most guns...

and that damn last round WILL feed from a factory mag box...


oh well.. just my grumpy opinion practicality over nostalgia about 3/4 of the time

jeffe

Thank you all very much for your input - enlightening.....especially the candid & obviously experienced comments regarding the .404J.



back to the drawing boards.......?

Then again I COULD simply buy another Blaser R93 barrel in .416 Remington and be done with it!

Somehow would be missing the nostalgia of a classic controlled round feed Winchester or Mauser - just not the same; plus that OffRoad stock would have to have a bucketload of shot & epoxy poured into it - they are a touch feathery when it comes to the .416 Remington IMHO.

Again, thanks for the responses.

Cheers,

Gerry