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 New toy. 450 BM. Should be good on pigs and deer. Price was right and i had a spare scout scope. Nitro "Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall DRSS, BASA 470 Krieghoff, 45-70 inserts, 12 ga paradox, 20 ga DR Simson/Schimmel, 12 ga DR O/U Famars, 12 ga DR SXS Greener | ||
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No doubt it easily kills hogs & deer. But does that .450 behemoth make Cooper's 'Scout weight' limit? All The Best ... | |||
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6.6 lb without scope. Under 7.5 with would be my guess. Nitro "Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall DRSS, BASA 470 Krieghoff, 45-70 inserts, 12 ga paradox, 20 ga DR Simson/Schimmel, 12 ga DR O/U Famars, 12 ga DR SXS Greener | |||
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I want one in 458 winmag,a little heavier of course  or a 45-90  DRSS | |||
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I saw one at the local emporium a while back. Tacticool fun gun. Then a Ruger No.1 stainless/laminate 450 Bushmaster. Very humorous that. What we really need is a .500 S&W Ruger No.1, stainless/laminate. I'll wait, but I won't hold my breath.  Rip ... | |||
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Neither would fit Cooper's 'Scout Rifle' criteria even if they did make weight. All The Best ... | |||
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A good stomper. I have two rifles in a scout set up. The one in 06 and 220s is one of my favorite thick stuff hog rifles. | |||
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Well then "pseudo-scout" it may be: ************************************************** http://www.steyrscout.org/project.htm A Few Words on the Scout Rifle Concept Since one must take care with one's speech it is appropriate that we address the issue of just what a "scout rifle" really is. By the definition of the Scout Rifle Conferences held under the auspices of Jeff Cooper the scout rifle has been defined as a general purpose rifle suitable for taking targets of up to 400 kg (880 pounds) at ranges to the limit of the shooters visibility (nominally 300 meters) that meets the following criteria: Weight-sighted and slung: 3 kilograms (6.6 lb). This has been set as the ideal weight but the maximum has been stated as being 3.5 kg (7.7 pounds ). Length: 1 meter (39 inches) Nominal barrel length: .48 meter (19 inches) Sighting system: Typically a forward and low mounted (ahead of the action opening) long eye relief telescope of between 2x and 3x. Reserve iron sights desirable but not necessary. Iron sights of the ghost ring type, without a scope, also qualify, as does a low powered conventional position scope. Action: Magazine fed bolt action. Detachable box magazine and/or stripper clip charging is desirable but not necessary. Sling: Fast loop-up type, i.e. Ching or CW style. Caliber: Nominally .308 Winchester (7.62 x 51 mm). Calibers such as 7 mm - 08 Remington (7 x 51 mm) or .243 Winchester (6 x 51 mm) being considered for frail individuals or where "military" calibers are proscribed. Built-in bipod: Desirable but not mandatory. Accuracy: Should be capable of shooting into 2 minutes of angle or less (4") at 200 yards/meters (3 shot groups). Rifles that do not meet all of these specifications are technically not "scout rifles." Thus rifles of this general design in calibers other than those stated above are not true scout rifles but actually "pseudo-scouts." However, even though Steyr Mannlicher (and now Savage) are making production rifles of this general type (as well as some wild variations) they are under no legal obligation not to call their deviations "scouts" as a marketing tool. Thus, the Steyr .376 Scout also known as (and probably better referred to as the ".376 Dragoon" although the factory dislikes the term) nor the .223 variation are true scout rifles. For that matter neither are the custom made scout-like rifles made up in .30-06, .375 H&H, or what ever caliber. However, there are many parts of the scout design that can be handily used on non-scout rifles." ************************************************** I waited for the stainless/tupperware version of the .308 Win. "Ruger Gunsite Scout" which is lighter than the laminate or the walnut. With loaded 5-round magazine, scope and sling, it weighs 7 lbs. 11 ounces = 7.6875 lbs. That is with a Burris 2.75X scout scope, and with butt spacers installed for 14.25" LOP. That barely made the maximum allowable, loaded weight with current scope and sling, which are not the lightest possible. For the "Scout Puritans" it might be acceptable. It is for this pilgrim. Rip ... | |||
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 As for the rebated rim on another ugly duckling cartridge, the 450 Bushmaster: Works "OK" in the Ruger with vertical-stack, in-line feed, CRF + PF, UREx, and MF-ing CREj. It uses handgun .45-caliber bullets, but hey, Jeff Cooper thought it was "Thumper" incarnate!  Rip ... | |||
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Congrats on your rifle. Reading RIP's previous posts, I've learnt that the Ruger Scout has a Controlled Round Feed (Mauser-like) action. What's not to like?  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- “A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition” ― Rudyard Kipling | |||
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I loved my .308 scout. I don’t know why I got rid of it. | |||
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 Well, if you actually read Cooper's Scout criteria above, a Ruger #1 in any chambering is a major fail right there, regardless of weight, since the base action for building a true Scout requires a magazine-fed weapon, not a single shot. The paradigm Scout rifle is a bolt-action with a fixed internal ('blind') 5-rd magazine. But even a semi-auto 'faux-Scout' still meets the mag-fed criteria. The single-shots simply aren't in the same universe. All The Best ... | |||
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A.J., You are pompously confused.  Nobody said a Ruger No.1 was a Scout. It was just mentioned in association with the 450 Bushmaster chambering (5th post, 4th reply on this thread) since the Ruger "pseudo-scout" and the Ruger No.1 are both offered in that chambering. Rip ... | |||
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Okay, Gramps, now I'm confused. Time for you to put the Bosco down and go straight to bed. Thank you.  All The Best ... | |||
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Can't wait for RIP to let RIP!    Nitro, how does your rifle shoot btw? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- “A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition” ― Rudyard Kipling | |||
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He must be new. Cooper loved his military carts and push feed bolt rifles. The Ruger M77 Mk ll GunSight Scout is really the ideal platform . Now that it's available in 6.5 Creedmoor ! Vastly superior cartridge all around. !!!!! RIP you must have some Long arms on ya ! My ideal would be 13" which was one thing I agree with Col. Cooper on . I wish some scope manufacturer would get with the program and make a scout scope ( appropriate eye relief) that was similar to a Vortex Viper PST II 1-6 x24 . that would be great. That 450 is a nice looking rifle ! Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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PD999, When I wrestle with pigs I get dirty, and I do not enjoy getting dirty for mere "come at me bro" invitations. Rip ... | |||
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Cold Trigger Finger, I would just as soon have a .308 WCF with a 16" barrel as a 6.5 Creedmoor with a 16" barrel. The latter was said to be for "the frail" needing recoil reduction. Yep, I am wider than I am tall, my reach versus height ratio borders on chromosomal abnormality. Rip ... | |||
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Words of Wisdom  Peter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- “A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition” ― Rudyard Kipling | |||
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Shoots like a pussy cat. I have long arms hence the 14 1/4" pull setup. Probably could pull 1 of the spacers for winter. Hit my 50 yd gong with eball bore sighting. Need to move scope cross hairs up had to use Kentucky windage to hit with second round. Reloading components arrive tomorrow then lots of shooting to comence. Nitro "Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall DRSS, BASA 470 Krieghoff, 45-70 inserts, 12 ga paradox, 20 ga DR Simson/Schimmel, 12 ga DR O/U Famars, 12 ga DR SXS Greener | |||
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A friend of mine has a custom #1, made for him by John Linebaugh, in 500 Linebaugh Maximum. It’s a hoot! Matt FISH!! Heed the words of Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984: "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right." | |||
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Matt, I was just thinking about that while perusing the .500 Maximum load data in the WESTERN POWDERS HANDLOADING GUIDE EDITION 1 (2017). It would certainly be more powerful and versatile than a .500 S&W Ruger No.1. If you got the twist right, you could do .500 Whisper work with 50 BMG bullets, 50-140, 50-90, 50-70 Musket work with heavy bullets, as well as the full spectrum of .500 S&W handgun ballistics. Rip ... PS: You do realize that the .500 Maximum Ruger No.1 could never be a Scout Rifle, don't you? I do.  | |||
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Highly recommended for all the Tyros here: McCann's definitive study of all-things Scout Rifle. No single-shots: https://www.amazon.com/Scout-R...entury/dp/1983512540 Great book for anyone seriously interested in the SR topic. Exhaustively researched, plus McCann reviews and tests the extant commercial SRs from Steyr, Savage, Ruger, et al. All The Best ... | |||
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What's interesting is that every Scout rifle I've come across (more than 10 rifles so far; a mixture of mostly Ruger and Steyr) has a 'normal mounted' (non-Scout) scope using receiver-based mounts. So maybe any carbine-length rifle, of whatever calibre the owner is most familiar with, is a better 'all-round' rifle; possibly the original definition of the Scout rifle as the best 'all-round' rifle is too rigid? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- “A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition” ― Rudyard Kipling | |||
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 PD999, Very brave of you! You just said it! The Emperor has no clothes!!! I totally agree. I consider a scout scope location on any rifle as merely a place for a backup scope in case the primary fails. In fact, the whole "Scout Rifle Religion" seems to be a circle jerk of mental masturbation. Please excuse me from the cluster. I object to the perverted mind control aspects of it. Scout Rifle: Should weigh no more than 3 kilograms (6.6 pounds). To do this it likely will require an 8-ounce (227-gram) stock. Scout Rifle: Must have a LOP of no more than 12.5 inches, because there is no danger of Weatherby eyebrow with a scout scope.  Give me a break! Freedom!!! Scout Rifle: Just another toy to play with. Scout Rifle: A Jack-of-all-trades, the best at nothing. I have tried, but always prefer something other than a Scout Rifle. Maybe it is because I have no personal agenda or investment in aggrandizing the Scout Rifle concept. Rip ... | |||
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I have no dog in the fight re. Scout rifles. Hell, I even read all the stuff on the Scout workshops at Gunsite, have spoken in length with the Ruger and Steyr guys at gun shows, and have met a fair number of Scout rifle users. I've come away with the feeling that a carbine-length, detachable-magazine (preferably large capacity) rifle in common (and manageable for both sexes) calibres (eg 5.56/7.62 for NATO citizens) would be most useful in a 'true' SHTF situation, where they are likely to be used in an urban environment (ie not attempting 2-mile sniper shots across mountains). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- “A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition” ― Rudyard Kipling | |||
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I highly recommend Clint Smith's book (cheap and short): https://www.amazon.com/Urban-R...-ebook/dp/B01MRPSOY6 (I have no affliation to Clint nor his organization). Clint Smith was Jeff Coper's right-hand man at Gunsite, after which he went on the road as a firearms instructor, and now runs Thunder Ranch in Oregon. http://thunderranchinc.com/ and https://www.youtube.com/channe...R_xHiG5ibzgm4xXmF-Sw The reason why I've mentioned the above is that when he was approached to develop his own SHTF rifle, he decided (based on 45yrs of training LE Officers and the Military) that a 'conventional' bolt-action rifle was preferable to any Scout or AR rifle for 'actual' SHTF situations: http://www.mossberg.com/produc...thunder-ranch-27794/ http://www.mossberg.com/produc...thunder-ranch-27798/ I'm considering both of the above models; they run AR15 / AR10 mags; not bad accuracy too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tgn7luW0JnE ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- “A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition” ― Rudyard Kipling | |||
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Price was right. It's a CRF bolt gun. It is wood and black. It has a box mag (8 rounder showed up today) It's not sub 45 cal. It makes me smile. That is all. Nitro "Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall DRSS, BASA 470 Krieghoff, 45-70 inserts, 12 ga paradox, 20 ga DR Simson/Schimmel, 12 ga DR O/U Famars, 12 ga DR SXS Greener | |||
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No other reason required ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- “A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition” ― Rudyard Kipling | |||
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Cooper specified the max weight on a Scout, typically in the .308/7.62 chambering, to be no greater than 3.5kgs (7.7lbs). But that was with a scope mounted, a sling attached, and unloaded. The link below says Ruger's 450 Scout is 6.6lbs as shown: i.e., no scope, no sling, and presumably unloaded. https://ruger.com/products/sco...specSheets/6837.html So even with, e.g., the 7oz Burris 2.75x scout scope mounted in QD rings and a Ching sling attached, your .450 Scout would still likely make weight. That, in turn, would make ol' Col. Cooper smile. All the while, the Fuddley McGoos here are struggling to figure out the whole 'Scout thing,' which makes me smile. All The Best ... | |||
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I’d buy another if they chambered it in 9.3x62. | |||
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Steyr's very light scout rifle chambered to the little 376 steyr was a brute shooting off the bench. Beware of heavy calibers in very light rifles. | |||
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I use a 450NE hot loaded in Ruger #1 as a groundhog gun. I am not recoil shy. Carry on. Nitro "Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall DRSS, BASA 470 Krieghoff, 45-70 inserts, 12 ga paradox, 20 ga DR Simson/Schimmel, 12 ga DR O/U Famars, 12 ga DR SXS Greener | |||
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I had one,wish I had never sold it,but came across a pro-hunter recently,wonderful little rifle. DRSS | |||
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I reckon I could "scout" a herd of Elk or Bison with one!  Matt FISH!! Heed the words of Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984: "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right." | |||
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The value of the Scout concept has been proven by the military arms of the wealthier nations, world wide. A light carbine weight rifle with a forward optic. Cooper hated Armalites, but he didn't really live to see the quality or options routine today, or to see the optics we now have. He disparaged the fact that the batteries were always running out, for instance. But some of that has been dealt with. Today we have ARs that would make weight with optics, the original weight of 6.6 pounds. Speaking of 6.6 pounds it wasn't Cooper's desire to go heavier than that. He wanted the whole rig to weight what a nice English shotgun did at 3 kg. It was just the fact that it couldn't be done that lead to the bloated weights. Then with the bigger budget, you could add more junk to the package, depending on how lean you were running with the rifle itself. Today, anything over 6.6 all up in a 308 is just a bad Scout rifle. My Ruger is probably closer to 8 pounds. But they intended to make a pseudo scout from the beginning. They didn't want an all purpose rifle, they wanted a fighting rifle. And they didn't care if it weighed a lot. For myself, I realized after loving the idea of a Scout rifle since the first articles in G&A, that the emphasis Cooper puts on snap shooting didn't suit my style. These days I think my dream rifle in a 308 general purpose rifle might be closer to e 6.5x55 Ultralite arms. | |||
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A "Scout rifle" (SR) isn't meant to be shot off-the-bench, like a bench rest gun. Other than getting an initial zero dialed-in (from 100- out to 300-yds), the remainder of the SR exercise is to practice shooting it from typical field positions, supported and unsupported, and at various distances. In other words, you put the donut box down and get your fat arse off the bench and out into the field, where you shoot from kneeling (3 versions of that), prone, standing, sitting, etc. Then you run around for a while, humping your SR, then you shoot it some more, through all those field positions again. You might end up shooting anywhere from 80-to-150rds by days end. Maybe more. Fudleys will hesitate to do any of this, because mastering the SR comes dressed in overalls and looks like work ... which it is. The best test is to take a Precision Rifle course in which you can vet your SR over several days of intense use, as well as test your gear and, perhaps mostly, yourself under real-world conditions. All The Best ... | |||
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Well, you had me until you used the words "Ruger" and "fighting rifle" in the same paragraph.  All The Best ... | |||
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I am a Ruger Lover. Now I will take Momma's advice and cut this reply as short as a Scout Rifle. Rip ... | |||
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I dunno, at 260 lbs I prolly wouldn't be considered frail. Just a vastly superior cartridge . Cooper never saw the fulfillment of the world's greatest cartridge of between .224 and .338. Had he, no doubt it would have been the preferred cart. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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