I am looking for something better then a stock Ruger or CZ DGR. I'm not looking for the more exotic DGR rifle options like the 505 Gibbs, 600OK, and various 700 options. I am not dead set on a caliber at the moment but, it most likely will be a .4xx something (possibly a 450 Rigby Rimless or 404J in an appropriate rifle action). Anticiptated cost is between $3K and $5K.

Looking on-line, it is hard to discriminate between several good options such as the CZ Safari Classic, Bijou Creek, and of course American Hunting Rifles.

I am predisposed to go with an AHR option due to my past great contacts with Wayne. However, I want to give other great gunsmiths fair consideration before I spend my money and consider overall value. I am looking for a working rifle so, expensive wood and fine checkering is someting I will skip (I'm thinking McMillan or a simiar stock and a durable low glare finish). I also need a good gunsmith to help me make "better" choices with where I spend my money (and how much .... )

What gunsmiths or shops am I missing in my price range? What makes one a little better choice for me then another? What else am I missing in my search for a semi-custom rifle?

TIA,
Sid

When I had my 416 Taylor built I went with an MPI Coil Check stock. I could not be happier with it's performance. THey are pricey and do require some bedding work but I am more than happy with the end result.

I happen to be having Dennis Olson re-working my CZ and re-shaping the stock. I hsould have photos up in a couple of weeks when the rifle returns.

In case you do not know, Dennis has built a reputation in part on making rifles feed reliably. At this point, I believe my CZ could feed rocks he has it working so well. He also adjusted it so it will single feed. If you care to PM me I can provide you a list of what he has done to it so far. If you go into the gunsmithing forum on about the 2nd or 3rd page you can see some early pics of his re-shaping of the stock.

Jeff

it all depends ..
your action can be from 500 to 4000

what stock do you want? a custom wood stock will set you back, and perhaps more than your budget ..

barrel - $100-$1500 if you want intregal stuff

for your price range, here's what *I* would consider .

buy an RSM in 458 lott, and have it rechambered into 450 rigby .. these have nice stocks

OR

buy a CZ in 416 rigby or 458 lott, $1000
(why those .. well, couple reasons .. rigby will feed the 450 rigby but needs a barrel, lott will need gunsmithing to be a 450 rigby)

send to AHR and get a nicer take off stock, bob the barrel to 23", rework (barrel or chmber and feeding) to 450 rigby

on the CZ barrels, you can have your barrel rebored to 458, but may not be cost effective ..

reconsidering .. get mcgowen to rebarrel the 416 rigby to 450 rigby, as they make the barrels for the CZ custom shop, making the same hardware, that will probably cost around 600-800, depending, or AHR can do the work with the mcgowen barrel.

its all about choices, and a mac stock is $500 bucks, BEFORE fitting.

shortest route -- rechamber a RSM 458 lott to 450 rigby

in your price range, a reworked CZ with a nice bedded and bolted stock.

IMHO, AHR offer the best deal going for a rock solid, dependable and accurate DGR.

Not truly custom, but semi-custom. Which is fine with me, because AHR's ideas and mine are the same when it comes to a practical DGR.

The AHR DGRs are well-designed, well-executed and good looking rifles.

Since a 404J can be built on a standard bolt length Mauser action, which isn't too expensive, to which you can add Duane Weibe bottom metal (with either 4 or 5 down), that seems to me to be a good start. You get the advantages of a relatively cheap action at the outset, with shorter bolt throw than a CZ. You can have the metal work done by somebody who knows how to prepare a Mauser barreled action conversion to 404J, like Duane. Then you can have the stocking done by whomever you like, in plastic or wood. I would guess you could come within your budget.

Michael458 has had great results from http://www.sskindustries.com/rifle.htm

so why not call those guys? Go through the web site thoroughly first and then
get details from them when you call. Have fun with the hunt!

I'm thinking about getting a SC Winchester 3xx WSM for a donor and building a 404 Jeffery. I think I want a synthetic stock. I did some looking for an MPI "Recoil Check" stock but, did not find that listed on their website (I'm on dial up in rural Oklahoma so, I may have given up too soon ). I thought "Recoil Check" stocks were an Art Alpin "A-Square" trade mark? I have a McMillan HTG which I like very well so, they are an option too. Any other synthetic stock makers I should consider for a DGR? What barrel length and rifle weight would be best? What are my cost effective iron sight options?

A Ruger RSM conversion to 450 Rigby is very tempting too but, I think I would get more use out of a 404 Jeffery so I'm investigating that one thoroughly first.

TIA,
Sid

I'll throw my well intended two cents worth in on the 404 Jeffery cal.

I submit for your consideration that a bolt action rifle in a big bore

should fire it's bullets at original 416 Rigby velocity 2375ish FPS or

better. The 404 Jeffery does not in it's original form. Instead it's at

typical big bore-break open action, nitro express velocity, 2150ish FPS.

True many elephant have fallen to original 404 Jeffery ammo, but the

better move is to go up the 150 FPS. So, if you go 404, load it a bit

hotter. I am sure I've seen it done and the presure and other numbers

were safe, but maybe there was a little modification to the basic 404

brass shape with an updated sizing die. The Rigby is a wonderful pen-

etrator by all accounts.

Canyon Sporting Arms

I'd suggest Tip Burns at Canyon Sporting Arms.

quote:

Originally posted by BigFiveJack:
So, if you go 404, load it a bit hotter. I am sure I've seen it done and the presure and other numbers were safe, but maybe there was a little modification to the basic 404 brass shape with an updated sizing die.

The 404 Jeffery case was the basis for the WSM, RUM, and Dakota rounds. I'm sure I could get more then 2150FPS safely out of a modern rifle with the 404 Jeffery if I needed that much thump on both ends of the rifle. In fact, I would plan from the beginning to treat it like a 404 WSM/RUM/Dakota, not a historic black powder British classic rifle caliber.

I have a CZ 458 Lott I need to work with once I get settled into a permanent residence. I plan on loading that one with ever increasing loads to work my way up to full power 458 Lott loads or figure out where my threshold is. The idea of coverting a Ruger RSM 458 Lott to 450 Rigby Rimless is one I think I may jump on if my shoulder makes it to full power 458 Lott loads in the CZ.

Regarding the 416 Rigby, you never know when a tempting deal on a CZ 416 Rigby may show up. I think a 404 Jeffery in a smaller package though might be a better overall second/backup rifle.

Best Regards,
Sid

quote:

Originally posted by Sid Post:
I'm thinking about getting a SC Winchester 3xx WSM for a donor and building a 404 Jeffery.

won't fit, the wsm actions are shorter .. get a 300win/338win/7rem action

quote:

Originally posted by Sid Post:
I think I want a synthetic stock.

works..

quote:

Originally posted by Sid Post:
I did some looking for an MPI "Recoil Check" stock but, did not find that listed on their website

HORRIBLE choice.. mpi stocks aren't so great .. and that stock design is CLUBBY

quote:

Originally posted by Sid Post:
thought "Recoil Check" stocks were an Art Alpin "A-Square" trade mark?

and a horrible thought, especially for a 404..

quote:

Originally posted by Sid Post: I have a McMillan HTG which I like very well so, they are an option too. Any other synthetic stock makers I should consider for a DGR?

echols legend - its a mac stock

quote:

Originally posted by Sid Post:
What barrel length and rifle weight would be best? What are my cost effective iron sight options?

22-24" barrel, 9# WITH scope, as a 404 doesn't kick much

quote:

Originally posted by Sid Post:

A Ruger RSM conversion to 450 Rigby is very tempting too but, I think I would get more use out of a 404 Jeffery so I'm investigating that one thoroughly first.

the 404 bullets are of the most expensive of the big bores, due to size .. the .458 is the cheapest and widest sellection

quote:

Originally posted by Sid Post:
TIA,
Sid

quote:

Originally posted by Sid Post:


The 404 Jeffery case was the basis for the WSM, RUM, and Dakota rounds.

not exactly, as the wsm is a propetary round and you CAN make spec 404 from, but not the other way around . .550 base vs .542-, as is the rum, but the are NOT interchangable to SPEC ... just picking nits here, but no, they aren't

quote:

Originally posted by Sid Post:
I'm sure I could get more then 2150FPS safely out of a modern rifle with the 404 Jeffery if I needed that much thump on both ends of the rifle.

depending on your chamber and dies, ad you ARE setting yourself up for a little hassle, you can run them to whatever you like .. however, a ruger in 416 ruger does this, no changed

quote:

Originally posted by Sid Post:

In fact, I would plan from the beginning to treat it like a 404 WSM/RUM/Dakota, not a historic black powder British classic rifle caliber.

400 at 2250 works just fine

quote:

Originally posted by Sid Post:

I have a CZ 458 Lott I need to work with once I get settled into a permanent residence.

rechamber that to 450 rigby or just load it with barnes bullets to whatever your recoil tolerence is

quote:

Originally posted by Sid Post: I plan on loading that one with ever increasing loads to work my way up to full power 458 Lott loads or figure out where my threshold is.

rem 405s at 2250 kills pigs and deer dead!

quote:

Originally posted by Sid Post: I think a 404 Jeffery in a smaller package though might be a better overall second/backup rifle.

then do NOT even consider a coilCHUNK stock .. its a CLUB .. the 404, even at modern loads, doesn't kick bad

quote:

Originally posted by Sid Post:
Best Regards,
Sid

best of luck

buy this
http://forums.accuratereloadin...2711043/m/3921019131

and send it to danny pedersen, http://www.cutrifle.com/

with a check for $300 and have it rebored and chambered for 404 ...

done.. $2500 bucks

MPI "Recoil Check" stock ... got it, bad choice

To clarify:
Range use: 458 cartridge options for reduced cost and flexible low pressure loads (and few and far between tough dangerous animal shots)
Hunting: higher round count with a 404 Jeffery or some other .4xx (I don't want to destroy a game animal with an elephant rifle but, want enough to put feral piggies down with authority - even feral Russian Boar)

Gotcha' on the nitpick. Proprietary cartridge inspired by older black powder/cordite siblings ....

My expected velocity range for any DGR option is 2200-2400. Anywhere in there with the right bullet and good shot placement is enough for me in a heavy caliber rifle.

With experience, I'm sure my preferences will evolve over time. I appreciate all the words of wisdom helping me avoid some initial BAD thoughts. I'm here for advice and critiques, and appreciate everyones assistance.

Sid

Sid:

P.M. sent.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
buy this
http://forums.accuratereloadin...2711043/m/3921019131

and send it to danny pedersen, http://www.cutrifle.com/

with a check for $300 and have it rebored and chambered for 404 ...

done.. $2500 bucks

Pardon the hijack, would it be preferable from a barrel wall thickness & feeding standpoint to use a CZ .375 H&H or a .416 Rigby to do a .404 Jeff rebore?

its nearly the same, if not the same, as the barrel win does a .458 on .. and the 416 vs .423/424 is all of .008 .. little more than a sheet of paper per side ..

the 375 would clean up to either .. i don't BELIEVE a 416 would clean up to .424 .. assuming .01 depth for groves, you would have a barrel of .416 groove depth ve a .414 bore depth on a 404 ..
however, you couldn't clean up a 416 rigby to a 404 jeffery, as the 404 case is FAR smaller, and you would not be able to "cut the chamber" as 100% of a 404 case would be inside the rigby chamber, except, perhaps thinking about it .. part of the neck.

a 375 HH CZ could be reasonably rebored to 416 or 404, and you could realisticaly cut most 416/404 chambers in the resulting chamber, with the correct pilot..

that make ANY sense?

That makes lots of sense, and I should have done a bit of math before posting! Thanks for the quick response.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
that make ANY sense?

Another great post. THANKS!

Ed Brown Express. Just tell them what calibre/barrel length you want, and you're good to go. They REALLY know what they're doing.

Not inexpensive, though. 5K, or thereabouts.