I've been in the planning stages of putting together a .375 Weatherby in a relatively lightweight package. I was going to do it on an A-Bolt Stainless Stalker until I read an older post in here. Now I'm considering going to my original "Plan B" which was on a stainless Daly Mauser barreled action. I have absolutely no experience with these actions. What can you all tell me?? Is the Daly barrel worth enough to get the barreled action?? Thanks in advance.

S10

Well I can't help on the barrel but I have a 458 Win built on a Daly action that has been good. The gunsmith that built it bought an action then put a Douglas barrel on it, hence no experience with the Daly barrel. The action is fairly decent for the price, mine has a KG Gunkote finish so I was't looking for a "custom gun" level of polishing. I had one issue when I first got the rifle with it not feeding the second round correctly, this was solved with about 15 minutes work with a dremel tool on the follower. If you can get the barrelled action at a decent price it's worth trying the barrel to see if it's ok. I really think you'll want to get the action trued and the lugs lapped just so you know everything else is good, then see if it will shoot good enough for you. If you want a nicely polished blued finish you'll most likely have to polish the action a bit more than the factory also.

Not sure what Daly action you plan to use. Their web site shows no ETA for a stainless 375. I have several rifles built on the Daly barreled action. They will all shot MOA. When you compare the price for an action and barreled action the barrel is almost free. If you don't want the barrel they go for around $50-65 on ebay.

I hear conflicting info/opinions on the new/current Daly Mauser.

Some have said it is the exact same as the older Mark10, which can make for a solid rifle. Others say it is different from the Mark10 and is a POS. Some say it is a copy of the 98, while others say it is a poor likeness. Some say that the safety locks the trigger and bolt, while others say the safety does not lock the bolt. Some say the factory backs the product, while others express major issues w/ defects that the manufacturer fails to correct.

Everytime I think I have the answer, somebody says something different.

Can one of you guys who owns this new Daly Mauser give me the real deal on it? Cone, C, H, etc. breech? Safety lock the bolt? Safety and trigger serviceable or must go? Is it as good a the Mark10? I'd have interest in a stainless 458WM barreled action for a project gun. It would be good to get some input from someone who can put their hands on this thing.

Gary

I have experience here and have posted negatively (earned by CD) and positively about them.

I bought a shotgun (Over/under .410) from CD and in the first couple boxes of ammo the gun shot the chrome out of the barrel. The Chrome was very thick leaving the bottom barrel with a cylinder bore....it was full when I bought it. I returned it to CD and they accused me of reaming it out and refused to fix it.

I bought a Zastava barreled action from them and it was fine...worked well and shot well.

I bought a magnum mauser (.375 H&H length) and it would not feed well and the floorplate would not close. I repaired both these things as I knew their warranty BS well. I'm still working on the project but assume the action is now working ok.

If you want a zastava action from CD assume you will fix it yourself.....I'm not alone in this BS from their service department.

It might be the bargain you are looking for.....

Personally for me any more mausers I want will be post war items like the J C Higgens or other FNs I will search gun shows for whitworths and will not darken the doorway of Charles Daly again. They have no clue as to what quality is.

be your own judge.

.

quote:

I hear conflicting info/opinions on the new/current Daly Mauser

I have found some variation from one to another. It seems like the earlier ones were over polished. Screw holes dished etc. The later ones are better. The triggers I have do not lock the bolt on safe. They are acceptable triggers. You can get 3# without creep. Make sure the safety screw is re-adjusted after making changes.

The front of the action is an "H" not a "C" like the military 98. Parts interchange with the MKX. Triggerguard uses the cross pin like the later MKXs.

When I lay the last two I bought next to a later MKX I can't tell them apart.

I would still prefer an old FN or early MKX but it is hard to beat the barreled action price.

Like was said the action is a standard length. For the 375H&H the magazine is extended in the front. Requiring reduction in the feedramp. The old Whitworths did this and I never heard of any trouble. But, it would not be my choice for a 375Wby.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Gentlemen:

Read my post on the FN Mauser action on the 404 Jeffery action thread.

This is essentially a FN Mauser action built under licence by Zastava.

The action is one size only resembling basically a standard Mauser action but with 3 magazine size options based on 3 families of cartridges ( based on COL)

So when chambering for magnum length cartridges you are not usind a true magnum action you are getting an action where the adaptation has been done on the feedramp side from the bottom. So you are in fact using a weak action option to build magnum style cartidges on, BAD IDEA !

Alf, with all due respect can you give us any histories of Zastava-based rifles failing as a result of their decision to open to the front? As written, you imply that ANY 375 Mag built on a standard length action is substandard. Bollocks, I say!

I think .375 Whitworths and Mk Xs have a pretty solid reputation in that regard. Theoretical design weakness maybe but no disadvatage in fact.

I've used one for 375, 375 AI, 300/8 Mag and currently 416 Remington Magnum. They are perfectly safe. If you do the math on shear area instead of philosophize about it, you'll see for yourself.

All of that said, a lot of the first to come over were definitely finished by rookies. Like others said, lots of issues with crooked screw holes, overpolishing and the occaisional parts not fitting exactly right. I haven't seen any late ones but I hope they've improved in that regard.

To answer your question GaryVA, they are exactly the same as the previous model of Interarms MK X; a '98 with two position trigger safety. I have not ever seen one that locks the bolt but I don't claim to have seen all the earlier permutations. I think a lot of people confuse the features of the Mini-Mauser which is a hybrid, with the larger model causing a lot of the confusion about them.

If the Daly is the same as a MarkX/Whitworth 375 action , then there are better actions around to build on for a long , warm cartridge like the 375 Weatherby .

.

What I posed to you was to do the math instead of dealing in annecdotal opinion or if not that, provide some statistics on either FN or Zazstava failures on actions that were machined for long magnums.

I don't doubt your extensive and superior Mauser knowledge relative to mine but I think you quote opinion and not science in this specific instance. What the general gun buying public suspects and what the facts support don't necessarily coincide.

quote:

FURTHER THE LEFT LOCKING LUG IS SPLIT, NOT SOLID LIKE THE M98.
The bearing surfece of the left lug is compromised !

Looking at 3 98 bolts and 2 1909 bolts they all have a split left lug. The only Magnum length 98 I've seen had the split. Just curious without the split just how would the ejector hit the case?

While I agree I would find a different action for a long magnum hotter than normal pressured 375. I have never heard of a FN or Whitworth 375 H&H failing. I have shot 1000s of 60-63000psi round and have never had a failure or setback on either a FN or MKX.

Alf,
With all due respect, you have made some incorrect statements regarding the contruction of Mauser bolts and receivers.

What is the"ring of strength" you are refering to?

All current Charles Daly guns are crap. They have a Turkish pump shotgun that lasts less than 1200 rounds before failing. Their O/U is a Huglu which is also Turkish and a POS. The 98's that I have seen at shows are awful...rough working and poor fit. I thought they would be a great idea to make up some mini Mausers, but the quality just isn't there. Look before you buy.

Charles Daly in the 19th and early 20th Century had makers like Lindner, Schilling and Sauer. Later, even the Miroku was decent. But their line of guns now is just simply the lowest of the low.

I am a buyer for early Charles Daly shotguns and drillings if anyone has one for sale. But the new stuff...PASS!

Alf,
I have never opened a M-98 from the front, any good smith will open them in the rear with less than a hundred thousands from the front ramp and you can do that with your bloody fingernail...

Mark X ala Whitworth however has opened them up totally in front and due to the good modern steel they NEVER blow up or get headspace in .375 and 458..never!!

Yeah, I wouldn't choose to do it that way either but it is safe to do.

quote:

Originally posted by browningguy:
Well I can't help on the barrel but I have a 458 Win built on a Daly action that has been good. The gunsmith that built it bought an action then put a Douglas barrel on it, hence no experience with the Daly barrel. The action is fairly decent for the price, mine has a KG Gunkote finish so I was't looking for a "custom gun" level of polishing. I had one issue when I first got the rifle with it not feeding the second round correctly, this was solved with about 15 minutes work with a dremel tool on the follower. If you can get the barrelled action at a decent price it's worth trying the barrel to see if it's ok. I really think you'll want to get the action trued and the lugs lapped just so you know everything else is good, then see if it will shoot good enough for you. If you want a nicely polished blued finish you'll most likely have to polish the action a bit more than the factory also.

Browningguy,

What did you grind down on the follower to make the second round feed? And how'd you fault-locate the problem to the follower vs the feed rails?

I'm thinking about one of their LH actions to try to build my first using the American Rifleman article from this month as a guide. I've wondered if buying a barreled action might be smarter given they would have had to "fix" any problem with the front receiver threads to attach the barrel.

Thanks,

Steve

quote:

Charles Daly in the 19th and early 20th Century had makers like Lindner, Schilling and Sauer. Later, even the Miroku was decent. But their line of guns now is just simply the lowest of the low.

The name Charles Daly and the term quality are simply not synomimous. KBI hasn't bought any relief to them either.

I purchased a CD Mauser a couple of months ago for my 400 Whelen Improved project.

I have had two seperate gunsmiths look at the action, and both agree it is well made.

I have two salient points about it:

1) With shipping, tax, and fee to my FFL holder, it was $283 new (in the white). That is less than the cost of 2 weeks groceries for two adults.

2) It is a perfectly acceptable platform to begin with for extensive modifications. My receiver is being sent all over for resurfacing, bolt work, and some light engraving. Even by the time all that work is finished it will still come in cheaper than a full house custom Mauser, and will be serviceable without me worrying about losing a fortune when my horse smacks it into a tree.

I don't pretend it's a Fred Wells special.
It's a "Garrett can drop it off a cliff and not take out a loan" shooter.

Garrett

.

Alf,
All of the Model 1898 Mauser bolts that I have presently in the shop have split left locking lugs. The ejector passes through the slot to reach a case head at the bolt face and eject same.

The split left lug was a feature of Paul Mauser's original patent drawings. FN had nothing to do with that part of the design.

Alf, you sound like a politician defending the indefensible. I asked specifically, SHOW ME THE MATH.

When you can do that I'll listen. 50,000 successful Zastavas speak to my position; show me otherwise for yours.

Tiggertate,

Why don't you show the math proving they are sound for the H&H? Surely you have some metalurgical analysis that shows the composition of the the "modern" steel and its heat treatment.

I specifically asked this question of Zastava and of course was ignored.

Regardless of how the action is modified, open to the front vs open to the rear, the H&H length cartridges are simply not a good marriage with the standard 98 action.

hey guys...if someone wants to reimburse me the cost of a metallurgical analysis, I'll send one to a labratory for analysis of type of steel.....

I'll also hold side bets as to the outcome.

My bet is case hardened AISI 1020 or equivalent

We all know that no math can be accomplished without knowing the tensile strength and that requires knowing the chemistry and heat treating of the steel.

I'm guessing that metallurgical analysis will destroy the action....($250) and cost at least another $250...so if one really wants an answer lets pitch in and get the answer.

.

quote:

Originally posted by z1r:
Tiggertate,

Why don't you show the math proving they are sound for the H&H? Surely you have some metalurgical analysis that shows the composition of the the "modern" steel and its heat treatment.

I specifically asked this question of Zastava and of course was ignored.

Regardless of how the action is modified, open to the front vs open to the rear, the H&H length cartridges are simply not a good marriage with the standard 98 action.

ZR1, I have an inordinate number of successful products out there so I have no need to display the math. That's the whole f**king point.

If Zastava were at fault for opening the front as they do, they would have been driven out of business decades ago. DECADES dude, not years.

I have no stock in KBI and I believe Vapo when he relates his bad experiences with product support but I draw the line with technical BS about the merits of a design that has served shooters extraordinarily well since the early 1920's. The facts do not require me to prove the flaw; they require Alf to do so.

And suggesting that the standard '98 is not a good marriage for the long magnums is ignorant any way you slice it. Period. End of story.

Bubba mad!

And I don't believe I said this, which you quoted me as saying: "That aside. I'm old and I'm lazy. Do the fucking math youeself."

You originally asked for the math, not me. A POS is a POS no matter what the math says. If CD is making an H&H rifle You couldn't pay me to use it.

quote:

Originally posted by z1r:
Bubba mad!

And I don't believe I said this, which you quoted me as saying: "That aside. I'm old and I'm lazy. Do the fucking math youeself."

You originally asked for the math, not me. A POS is a POS no matter what the math says. If CD is making an H&H rifle You couldn't pay me to use it.

What, me mad? That was crappy computer skills, sorry.

Fair enough about CD though, I'm not defending current CD quality, just the design. And no, I'm not gonna post the math on something that works just like I'm not gonna do the math on why my 350 small block 4 bolt main is a good motor. I challenged Alf to prove otherwise.

I think the facts put the burden on him, not me. But just in case, I will be glad to contract a full FEA analysis for anyone who cares for about $200 an hour, not to exceed 40 hours. It can be done and I will do it, cash in advance.

Let me state it a little differently: If Alf has some factual knowledge pertaining to the negligence of Zastrava's engineering designs that endanger the shooting public, he has an obligation to make that knowledge available to the authorities (at a minimum)and you and I in particular. I have no such data nor do I believe such data can exist. If the data doesn't exist then it is libelous slander.

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it...

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:


So when the action is in battery it means the left now bottom is the weaker and has more give on recoil.

Alf,

On all of the right hand actions I have access to, the bolt turns clockwise to go the battery. That puts the slotted left lug UP, at least in the northern hemisphere.

Give it a try and see if you don't agree.

Vapodog, the tragedy is that Charles Daly was ONCE known for FINE quality. There is no finer boxlock than Lindner. Schilling was superb. The Sauers were excellent and better than the other Sauers of their day. But quality went downhill. Their current guns are in the bottom class of Boito, Huglu, some Norinco, etc. It is VERY sad.

Gentlemen,

I guess the conflict w/ the CD Mauser continues. If anyone gets a chance to look over the stainless CD action or barreled action, I'd greatly appreciate a posted review. I don't mind if it is a bit rough needing a bit of work, I'm just worried about having serious flaws that can lead to major safety problems.

I'm interested in taking a stainless 458WM barreled action to be the basis for a simple but reliable working gun. I was hoping that the CD would work out as I think some of the older Mark10s were solid rifles and I wanted a machined stainless steel 98.

Thanks,
Gary

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
hey guys...if someone wants to reimburse me the cost of a metallurgical analysis, I'll send one to a labratory for analysis of type of steel.....

I'll also hold side bets as to the outcome.

My bet is case hardened AISI 1020 or equivalent

We all know that no math can be accomplished without knowing the tensile strength and that requires knowing the chemistry and heat treating of the steel.

I'm guessing that metallurgical analysis will destroy the action....($250) and cost at least another $250...so if one really wants an answer lets pitch in and get the answer.

A spectrograghic chemical anaalysis can be done which does not destroy the action. The test leaves a 10 MM diameter arc effected area about .005/.010" deep and that could be on the bottom flat of the receiver. The test gives the percentage of each of the first 7 to 10 most prevalant elements.

Even a professionally prepared lab report of such a test probably would not silence the CD haters.

here's another magnificient symbol of quality

as is this one


This stamping on my .25-06 is the kiss of death. It might as well be stamped "junk from Yugoslavia"

It makes little difference how good it is. The name stands for junk.

quote:

A spectrograghic chemical anaalysis can be done which does not destroy the action. The test leaves a 10 MM diameter arc effected area about .005/.010" deep and that could be on the bottom flat of the receiver. The test gives the percentage of each of the first 7 to 10 most prevalant elements.

Even a professionally prepared lab report of such a test probably would not silence the CD haters.

Hunting cat. While I agree with the spectroanalysis I believe the receiver ring needs to be sectioned, polished, and etched to inspect for case depth. One needs to see how deep the martinsite is in order to know what is under the surface. I strongly suspect that 4140 is not used in this action.....that it's a lot closer to AISI 1020 and case hardened .03 deep.

This would require a section of the receiver ring and destructive testing.

.

.

Alf....where do you find this stuff???

Alloy steel....guess I was wrong on my estimate of plain carbon steel and case hardening of Zastava actions.....but then no one bet me either.....

It mentions figure 5...do you have it?.....is there more to this article?

Thanks for posting this.....I, for one, am very interested.

Alf,

You have a research library (or should I say museum) to die for!

If I'm reading your info correctly; a current production stainless steel CD Mauser should be made w/ proper steel and should be machined correctly/safely/properly for a 458WM cartridge. Question: would it be safe to say that the steel is where it needs to be and I should have what I need to work w/ to get it feeding reliably if needed?

Also, I like to have a locking bolt. Question: can I have fit a two or three position safety that will lock the CD Mauser bolt? Can an original three position military flag safety be fit to this rifle?

This may be common knowledge to you guys out there, but I'm having trouble weeding through all this stuff. I don't want to rule out using a stainless 458WM CD Mauser until I'm sure I get a grasp on what the heck it is or is not.

Thanks,
Gary

quote:

Can an original three position military flag safety be fit to this rifle?

I strongly believe the Dakota or other three position safety could be fitted....it'll cost almost as much as the original action however.....and won't be in stainless.

Forgetting all the engineering arguments, etc., I've shot enough .375 FN's and Whitworths with hot handloads to be assured they are safe. I'm with Ray on this one. I also agree it would be better to open it up from the back, but never have seen a problem with one, including FN's, Mk X, and a lot of Browning Safaris with FN actions. The CD currently is fairly crudely finished, but I have one in 7x57 I paid $279 for it with a syn. stock and it shoots 1.25 in. groups and feeds fine. What the hell, it ain't purty, classy, or well finished, has a few spots where they didn't finish polishing it, but it is cheap and will kill game. Their service very well may suck, I can't make a judgment on that, but I'm not afraid of the Zastava action. We can't get too anal with this action design, I know the FN rifles in .375 will work fine, don't need anyone to tell me why it won't work.