Bought 100 pieces of 416 rigby jamison brass from graf's. I can barely get the bolt closed on the unfired cases...so I thought I just need to resize them.

FL sized with RCBS dies in a forster press tried in my CZ again same results. This same gun feeds Norma cases like butter. So I thought, just need to trim them, trimmed a couple cases to 2.90" still same results.

I then tried sizing them with same dies but with my RCBS press. I couldn't even get the rim to slide into my RCBS shellholder. This same shellholder works perfectly with the Norma cases.

I checked several measurements with my calipers and compared to the Norma cases the jamison ones seemed within tolerance levels except for the rim thickness.

So what is it? Is the rim to thick? Is the shoulder to far forward? I screwed my FL die down all the way and a little past no luck. Anyone else having problems?

Howdy,
Call jamison international and talk to Mark about this issue.
jeffe

Sounds oversized. Or maybe it is really .505 brass?

That is scary! I was looking forward to trying the Jamison Rigby brass out since it is "supposed" to have the same web design as a Lapua and thus the Jamison Rigby brass can substain higher pressures.

woods,
it's "supposed" to have the same web as the chey-tac --

jeffe

That's the 505 Gibbs with the Chey-Tac web Jeffe, not the Rigby. While we're on the general subject, I tried to form some of the 505 cylindrical in my 505 FL die; no such luck. The shoulder angle is too abrupt and it rolls the case in too hard. Guess I'll need to make an intermediate form die and do it in two steps.

You got some 375 RUM brass headed your way, too. Thanks for the help with the 458 AR. Headed to the store in while to get some H-335 and load a bunch up!

Harry,
you are right .. chey-tac= gibbs!!!

need tom or i to make you a long taper, then fireform?

the AR's are dead simple to make.. fireform, trim, BANG

jeffe

Gave Mark at Jamison a call (thanks jeffeosso), he said send them in and they will take a look at them.

They went into my chamber fine but trying to close the bolt took way to much effort, and on some I couldn't close it at all. Its got to be something with the rim thickness. Funny that all 100 pieces would have the same problem and not hear about it on this site.

ptaylor-You indicated Norma cases worked.
Have you taken bolt out and put both cases
under the extractor to check for extractor
and boltface fit? Boltface recess may not
be right, room under extractor too tight.
Also are the rims centered with base.Just
roll case across smooth table to check.Ed

quote:

Originally posted by ptaylor:
Gave Mark at Jamison a call (thanks jeffeosso), he said send them in and they will take a look at them.

They went into my chamber fine but trying to close the bolt took way to much effort, and on some I couldn't close it at all. Its got to be something with the rim thickness. Funny that all 100 pieces would have the same problem and not hear about it on this site.

ptaylor, if you happen to call Mark again, please try to confirm that the Rigby brass' web has been updated to .338 Lapua specs. I am curious to know for sure if this is true or not.

THANKS!

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Harry,
you are right .. chey-tac= gibbs!!!

need tom or i to make you a long taper, then fireform?

the AR's are dead simple to make.. fireform, trim, BANG

jeffe

Yes, eventually I'll have to do something like that. I've got about 60 pcs of Horneber so I'll prolly hold off till I need more. Who knows what crazy idea will surface before then for cylindrical Gibbs brass?

They fit on my bolt face fine and the extractor held them in place. They seemed centered but I did not roll them on a table.

I put them in the mail yesterday and will have an update on thurs. when I call Mark back.

quote:

Originally posted by ptaylor:

I put them in the mail yesterday and will have an update on thurs. when I call Mark back.

Please don't forget to ask him if his Rigby brass has the updated Lapua web.

I'll probably see Marc Jamison in person Friday and ask him about this glitch.

Yes I will also ask to compare the webs of the Rigby versus Lapua ... and section them myself.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:


I'll probably see Marc Jamison in person Friday and ask him about this glitch.

Yes I will also ask to compare the webs of the Rigby versus Lapua ... and section them myself.

Thank you kind sir!

BTW, I believe that it was you that first noted this???

quote:

Originally posted by ptaylor:
Bought 100 pieces of 416 rigby jamison brass from graf's. I can barely get the bolt closed on the unfired cases...so I thought I just need to resize them.

FL sized with RCBS dies in a forster press tried in my CZ again same results. This same gun feeds Norma cases like butter. So I thought, just need to trim them, trimmed a couple cases to 2.90" still same results.

I then tried sizing them with same dies but with my RCBS press. I couldn't even get the rim to slide into my RCBS shellholder. This same shellholder works perfectly with the Norma cases.

I checked several measurements with my calipers and compared to the Norma cases the jamison ones seemed within tolerance levels except for the rim thickness.

So what is it? Is the rim to thick? Is the shoulder to far forward? I screwed my FL die down all the way and a little past no luck. Anyone else having problems?

I have had the exact same problem using the same reloading set up. Please let me know if Mr. Jamison provides a solution.

Wes

quote:

Originally posted by WESR:

quote:

Originally posted by ptaylor:
Bought 100 pieces of 416 rigby jamison brass from graf's. I can barely get the bolt closed on the unfired cases...so I thought I just need to resize them.

FL sized with RCBS dies in a forster press tried in my CZ again same results. This same gun feeds Norma cases like butter. So I thought, just need to trim them, trimmed a couple cases to 2.90" still same results.

I then tried sizing them with same dies but with my RCBS press. I couldn't even get the rim to slide into my RCBS shellholder. This same shellholder works perfectly with the Norma cases.

I checked several measurements with my calipers and compared to the Norma cases the jamison ones seemed within tolerance levels except for the rim thickness.

So what is it? Is the rim to thick? Is the shoulder to far forward? I screwed my FL die down all the way and a little past no luck. Anyone else having problems?

I have had the exact same problem using the same reloading set up. Please let me know if Mr. Jamison provides a solution.

Wes

This is not good news! I hope its something at the factory that can be easily corrected.

I've heard from people I know in the reloading supply business that the early shipments from Jamison have had QC problems, so I'm not surprised to read this string. Since I only shoot rifles that need brass that I ususally got from Bell in the past, this is really bad news. I sure hope this is just a teething problem that will soon be put right. I wish him the best.
------------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

sounds like the shoulder is too far forward. Buy some A-square brass...Its correct.

I Talked to Mark today and he is looking for any other 416 Rigby brass with the same problem and is commited to fixing the problem. Considering a run of brass normally starts about 50,000 pieces having a 100 or 200 that are out of spec seems pretty low considering he will make good on the product.

WESR you can EMAIL me at sales@custombrassandbullets.com as I told Mr. Jamison I would help with any other brass problems.

RNS

Neal, you're gentleman and probably a scholar too. Thanks a bunch for the brass and bullets. The Kodiaks look fantastic. If I ever get my rifle back I'll load some up and post some groups.

Just got off the phone with Jamison brass. They told me the brass is registering right at MAX dimensions and with my new gun (possibly a tight chamber) this is probably causing the problems. They are going to turn the rims down and send them back to see if that corrects the problems. Hope this works. Should get them back sometime next week.

I wasn't able to talk with Mark on the phone so didn't have a chance to ask if the Lapua web had been incorporated into the new brass. Hopefully RIP will be able to talk with Mark and see for himself.

That tells me he is using BELLs tooling. Probably using the draw sequence too.

quote:

Originally posted by RNS:

WESR you can EMAIL me at sales@custombrassandbullets.com as I told Mr. Jamison I would help with any other brass problems.

RNS

Sir,
Thanks, but I will simply continue using the brass for practice as I have already loaded it. It can be chambered, it just takes extrodinary force on the bolt handle.

ptaylor,

Good luck with having the rims turned down. Rim diameter is not the problem.

Wes

quote:

Originally posted by WESR:

quote:

Originally posted by RNS:

WESR you can EMAIL me at sales@custombrassandbullets.com as I told Mr. Jamison I would help with any other brass problems.

RNS

Sir,
Thanks, but I will simply continue using the brass for practice as I have already loaded it. It can be chambered, it just takes extrodinary force on the bolt handle.

ptaylor,

Good luck with having the rims turned down. Rim diameter is not the problem.

Wes

Diameter is not the problem, thickness is. I don't know how brass is made so really don't have a clue. I guess they plan on milling down the thickness and restamping? Seems like alot of work for 100 pieces.

WESR, what shellholder if any are you using?

Well, I saw Marc Jamison today.
He says the brass in question chambers in a Ruger No.1 and in a Dakota 76 chambered for .416 Rigby. He did not say he had fired it, just chambered it easily.

I looked at the brass in question.
I note that the posterior edge of the rim has only a minimal chamfer, really just a radius of the sharp edge.

Old Norma brass had no chamfer of the rear face of the rim edge. New Norma brass has a pronounced chamfer there, and this makes for slicker feeding and chambering.

I have also noted in the past that Norma and Lapua brass of this .416 Rigby case head size will measure about 0.585" at the rim and the head, and nominal max would be 0.590" and 0.589" respectively there.

Maybe the Jamison brass needs a more pronounced chamfer on the rear of the rim? Maybe not?

Maybe the brass is closer to .590"/.589" than .585"/.585"?

Maybe the rim is at max thickness (Marc says it is not over size), and the CZ rifle was made with tooling that has become worn down and is undersize ... again?

Recall the initial Safari Classic in .505 Gibbs that would not chamber A-Square made CZ ammo that sold for over $12.50 per individual round?

Jamison brass worked fine in that one.

This is just a minor glitch on start up of brass by Jamison, in the case of the .416 Rigby, or maybe some more too tight CZ's?

A $2 piece of brass is a lot easier to fix than a $13 loaded round.

Marc says that his .505 Gibbs does have the same head as the .408 Chey-Tac. I also saw with my own eyes some of the new .505/525 grain Barnes TSX today. Barnes is shipping them now. Surely the .510/570gr TSX is being made now also.

Marc Jamison also said that his .416 Rigby has a thick head that is similar to the .338 Lapua in construction. I will section them later and eyeball it for myself, having resided in Missouri.

This glitch with .416 Rigby definitely needs to be sorted out before proceeding with the .500 Jamison.

BTW, I also visited the Searcy Double Rifle operation on Moose Drive in Sturgis, South Dakota. Friendly and industrious folks there.
Looks like they could use any Pac-Nor made barrel regarding twist rate that one would want, though the order specification would go through Butch in Boron.

Pac-Nor now offers a 10" twist barrel in .475 caliber and a 12" twist barrel in .510 caliber.

Later.

First off, I dont think its the ammo. I know for a fact its not the ammo in the case of the 505! There was nothing to fix except of changing the reamer that Pacific made WRONG! I guess changing the #'s frim metric to standard was a problem for them.

A call back to Marc Jamison yesterday after I posted above, produced the bit of info that maybe the extractor grooves on the cases were not cut deeply enough. Easy enough to fix.

It sure would be helpful if Marc Jamison had the problem rifle in hand to examine.

He also said that his rim was .587" and the head was .586" IIRC. This is only one or two thou bigger than Norma and Lapua new brass I have measured, and less than the max allowable.

CZ has been making functional .416 Rigby rifles for many years. Maybe the rifle in question was done with worn out tooling? Worn reamers and cutters could make things tighter or rougher.

Jamison is starting up some new .450 NE 3-1/4" brass, working on their first run of this, grandpappy to all NE DR's. They were pretty busy with a lot of different stuff. Building the line. Growing. Minor growing pains happen.

I sure haven't applied any measuring tools or techniques to the brass or problem rifle. Just some casual observation.

Recieved my brass back from Jamison. They fit my RCBS shellholder perfectly and I was able to size them thoughly as much as my RCBS die set would let me. Roughly 30% of the cases fit perfectly, 30% are slightly tight and the rest were a crush fit, this was after sizing them all.

I loaded all 100 pieces and I'm slowiy working through them. They are great for the range and plinking. Some A-square brass just showed up and I will try them in my chamber. If they prove to be problematic like the jamison brass them I'm thinking my chamber was mis-cut.

ptaylor,
I just bought the last 76 pieces of 470 Mbogo basic (.416 Rigby basic) brass that Jamison had on hand.

It looks like the extractor grooves have all been cleaned up on these too: the brass is shinier (freshened surface appearance) there than on the rest of the case.

I did put the calipers to this new brass and noticed:

rim thickness: 0.065"
head diameter: 0.586" (Rigby max = 0.589")
rim diameter: 0.587" (Rigby max = 0.590")

Compare to .338 Lapua Magnum brass (by Lapua and Norma) dimensions (same as Norma and Federal .416 Rigby dimensions, IIRC):

rim thickness: 0.060"
head diameter: 0.585"
rim diameter: 0.585"

I haven't had a chance to try the new Jamison stuff in a rifle yet, but it sure looks stout and good. Makes the Lapua brass look anemic, though I have not had a chance to section it yet. I am sure I will be able to make a rifle chamber fit it as the .500 Mbogo.

Glad to see progreess is being made and Jamison will stand behind his products as he has said.

RNS

Ron,
far be it from me to point out typos... in this case you like one rim thickness as .065 and the other as .600 ... 1/2 an inch swing.. did you mean .065??

What about Canada! Can Jamison brass be found in Canada???

Hi .366torque,
You can just call Jamison and order brass from them. They will ship to Canada.
Take care,
Dave

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Ron,
far be it from me to point out typos... in this case you like one rim thickness as .065 and the other as .600 ... 1/2 an inch swing.. did you mean .065??

Thanks, Jeffe. I meant 0.060" instead of 0.600", so there is a typo in your typo correction. $#it happens.
I corrected the typo just now.

You need to go correct your typo on the "Medium Fifty" throat, where you meant 0.350" instead of .0350" for the leade contribution to throat length? I have not done the trigonometric calculation lately, but that should be closer.

You are welcome.

I truly appreciate your correction of my typo, my friend.