I am considering a double in 9.3 X 74 for following up wounded bears - both black and brown. It seems that this caliber is the only option in a double in my price range. I would not use this rifle as a stopper in Africa, just a specific tool for going into the thick stuff after bears that had been shot. I could load 320gr Woodleighs. Is there enuf here for the job?

Similar to a .375 H&H. A bit slower.

There was a recent article in "Rifle" about an Alaskan bear hunter. "The Last of The Sourdoughs" I think it was. The hunter profiled had been doing it since 1964 and regarded the 375 H&H as minimal as a stopper. He carried a group of Winchester or Browning 86's in heavy calibers for work in the alders.

10 ga with BB or so, 20" barrels would be a FAR better stopper for bears... giant crater

or sabot slugs... at 20 feet, who cares that it groups a foot a 50 yard?

The remington 45/70 might be out this year, as the spartan, which would be at least as good as a 9,3x74.

recall guys, the 9,3x74 is a peer with the 375 FLANGED not HH. The 9,3x62 or x64 is the one running with the 375.

IIRC, 9,3x74 is a 286gr about 2000 or 2100 fps.

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
recall guys, the 9,3x74 is a peer with the 375 FLANGED not HH. The 9,3x62 or x64 is the one running with the 375.

Ballistics on the x62 and x74 are the same, no?

Best,

JohnTheGreek

ANTLERS, The 9.3X74R in a good S/S double will do the job in fine order. Your idea to use the 320 Woodliegh is a good one, and you can push that bullet at 2150 fps easily from a 24" barrel set, and still be spot on at 35 yds, or closer. That's all you need for the purpose you want the double in this case. Even the 286 gr Nosler partitions, or (my choice)the North Fork cup point, are all that is needed for stoping bear, of either color. The fact is, stopping has to disable the Central nervous system, and that is only done by passing trough, or very near the Brain, or spine. The key here is pin point accuracy, and straight line penetration,with a bullet that will break bone, not sheer power(FPE)!

I would far rather have the 9.3X74R with a 286 gr @ 2350 fps, in a double than a 375 H&H @ 2550 in a bolt rifle in a tight sittuation at 35 yds. The fact is if the bear charges you in the willows, at 35 yds, any bolt rifle becomes a single shot if you don't stop him with the first one, while the 9.3 in a good double will still be a two shot rifle. That's 100 % improvement over only one shot! If you happen to have a missfire in either rifle, the bolt rifle becomes an 8 lb club, and the double becomes a single shot, by simply changeing triggers! Now I ask you, which would you rather have a single shot, or a club?

If everything works properly,the choice is one 300 gr bullet @ 2550 fps, or two 286/320 gr bullets @ 2350/2150 fps.

Either is far better than a shotgun, no matter the shell used. The use of a shotgun with buck shot, or BB is a good way to get you ass bit, IMO! A good hard cast sabot slug might be OK, but most factory slugs are very soft, and flatten out to the size of a 50 cent piece on contact. That is fine for whitetail, but there is a lot of hair, and hide, and fat on a big bear, so the slug gets flattened before it gets to anything that counts.

The 2000 fps estimate of the 9.3X74R's, speed, I fear, is flawed with this cartridge in a good double rifle, and with good handloads designed for close encounters. Even factory ammo in the 9.3X74R is 2350fps with a 286 gr bullet, and handloads can push the 320 gr at over 2100 fps.

I certainly wouldn't use a shotgun for any bear,and much less, the guys that come to visit our camps in the Mulchatna Valley, west of Katmai Park. Those are Volkswaggens with hair,and are not intimadated by the presence of a hunter at all, when NOT WOUNDED!

Even for hunting these bear, I'd rather have my 9.3X74R double rifle,that however,that is simply because I like to hunt with my double rifles, but to go into the weeds with one, that is wounded, and pissed off, I don't want even a 458 LOTT in a BOLT rifle, and would still choose the little 9.3 in a double every time! of course if the choice were between a 9.3X74 R, and a 470NE both in double rifles, guess which one I would choose for the job!

The Merkel 140 chambered for 9.3X74R handles like a little 410 shotgun, and has exellant selactive ejectors, but has an AUTO SAFETY, that must be made manual, for the purpose you want the rifle. One doesn't need any addtional things to think about after reloading the rifle, before getting off the next shot. The safety being re-instated when you break the rifle for reloading is not a good thing when you are in a big hurry. it is simple to disconect the auto feature. If you want a double chambered for 45-70, the Pedersoli will take some pritty hot loads, and can be rechambered to 458 RCBS,450NE 3 1/4", or 450#2 NE! I don't think I'd be prone to go for the Remington Sparten 45-70 for the use you need the rifle!

There are better chamberings for stopping big bear, but the 9.3X74R has nothing to appolagise for, if loade properly!

Let us know what you decide

I have seen the 9.3x74 used on Buffalo and it sure did fair well..and if it can stop a buffalo it sure will work on big bear which are softer critters....

The 9.3x74 duplicates the 9.3x62 in factory stuff but the 9.3x62 can be handloaded a good deal better...

I would say you are at the lower end of stopping power on the big Alaskan bears, but when it comes to killing big animals, bullet placement for exceeds all the balistic BS in existence...

Phil Shoemaker has killed a simi truck load of Alaskan bears with a 30-06 btw..

For a pure charge stopper for anything mean, I prefer a 416 Rem or a 404 in a bolt gun....If I am going to use a double for backup its going to be a 450-400 or better, not a 9.3..but thats just my pick...I like that extra power, it keeps me mentally calm!

I believe, however, a 9.3x74 is an option...

BTW, I have some reservations about the 320 gr. Woodleighs in 9.3s, they work great in the 9.3x64 and the with a hot handload in the 9.3x62 but they need to be pushed faster to perform well, It seems to me they need to be started out at 2300 FPS at least, so in the 9.3x74 that may be a problem, if so I would opt for the 286 gr. Nosler or the fantastic cup points from Nothfork....The Northfork softs are also a great choice...

Mac - which Pedersoli are you referring to?

Ray - thanks for the input on the 320gr Woodleigh.

The Pedersoli is the Pedersoli Kodiak Mk IV rifle. It's a double rifle with exposed hammers. They come in .45-70 and 9.3x74. Cabelas was selling them, but quit about a year ago. They we're around $2,500 if I remember.

I got one, and I like it. I got the .45-70. It's a little barrel-heavy, but it's a neat rifle. Wood and metal finish are nice. It's strong enough that some people have rechambered to .450NE or .450NE#2. Mine's pretty accurate in .45-70 and I've chickened out on rechambering so far. You can still find them on the gun auction sites, Champlins (used), etc. I think Dixie Gun Works or a similar place might still carry them new.

Steve

Pedersoli 9.3x74R:





The Pedersoli web site has a list of distributors. The slide of the dollar against the euro has not helped the prices.

If you ever seriously consider a slug gun for follow up on bears, the best choice is a Benelli Super Black Eagle, loaded with Winchester Supreme Partition Gold ammo. A 50 caliber 385 grain slug at 1900 fps is devastating. It is a hollow point bullet, but is constructed very stout, and with 5 in the pipe it is rolling thunder! Would not be my first choice for browns, but is more than enough for any coastal black bear.

Not a stopper. Need to go bigger for that, I think. But the 9.3x74R is one for a good, hard killing, well placed first shot, and a fast follow up, in any case.

Sorry gents.. I was referring to factory loads designed for legacy guns. However, the comparision to the 375 FLANGED is perfectly accurate

hodgdon's says, with the 286 gr, that the x74 runs 2200-2300 with hand loads

the x62 -- 2300 to 2400... the 64 a hair higher...

A middle 375 HH is a 270 at2600 and, of course, a 300 at 2500...

So, the 9,3x74r is far closer to the 375 flanged, rather than the 375HH

On the 10... hmmm...we aren't talking bird shot.

870 grains of copper plated bb (2oz) plated BB at 1300 fps ... 100 18 cals hitting in exactly the same spot.. think about it

jeffe

All the folks that have actually used or seen used shotguns on bears unanimously agree that they are a poor choice for a stopper, whether 00 or slugs.

Stoppers start at 40 caliber. I would not choose an inexpensive double in a less than desireable chambering vs a good bolt gun in a appropriate chambering. For a "cheap" $2500 double, you could get a very nice 416 rem mag bolt gun built.

I'm somewhat familiar with the Pedersoli, but hesitate at the hammers for the purpose I describe. My whole thinking is based on a quick second shot - I dont think the hammers give me that.

Paul - I already have a nice 416 that I built for bears and buff, but am looking for a faster sencond shot.

quote:

Originally posted by Antlers:
I'm somewhat familiar with the Pedersoli, but hesitate at the hammers for the purpose I describe. My whole thinking is based on a quick second shot - I dont think the hammers give me that.

If both hammers are cocked, I'm not sure how much slower your second shot would be. It would take some practice to get the third and fourth shots (with a reload and re-cocking the hammers) as fast as a hammerless double. I would not argue that a .40+ bore would make a better stopper.

Not exactly classical but if the Benelli M4 is reliable enough for Marines clearing streets in Iraq it ought to suffice for bears in Alaska. There are a lot of subcaliber 12 ga loads, some in sabots that are devastating.

Once again bears don't recieve the respect they deserve as dangerous game.

I still wonder how if it takes a 3 1/2" 12 ga to kill a turkey, how a 12 ga is "devastating" on bears.

For me shotguns and bears are not compatible....would never use one on a grizzly unless I had nothing else with which to stop an attack. As for the 9.3X74...weak side of marginal and stopper rifles are for sorting things out not to provide a "maybe/might work" solution. They have to be adequate without any doubt.

A Marlin in 45/70 should do fine.

I agree a 45-70 should do fine, but most rabbits don't charge!

Hey Antlers,

Spartan (Remington) is coming out with that 45-70 in a double rifle for $500.00 or so ... If you can wait, it may be a rifle you could want to look into.

Good Luck!

Smoker

A shotgun is not an option I would consider for this application. I have considered a lever action (Winchester or Browning 1895) in .411 Hawk or 400 Whelen - and may end up there, but I like the idea of having the second shot right now.

You need 450/400 3&1/4". Expensive bore, but you can save a lot of dinero by going with something more exotic like an excellent vintage Varney-Carron.

Antlers, I think you are right on about a big bore lever rifle. The Winchester 71, chambered in 450 Alaskan would be perfect. They are lighter than the 1895 and in my opinion have a much smoother action that can be operated almost instantly. Not to mention they hold up well in the rough Alaskan enviroment and are proven to be extremely reliable.

The Model 71 has alot of drop at the comb to offer a better natural aim, much like the doubles and shotguns. Also the forearm fills the hand better than the 1895.

A stopping rifle has nothing to do with velocity or ballistic performance, it is a matter of getting the biggest piece of lead into the targets vitals. The bigger the hole the better.