Big Bores on this board are Model 70's, CZ's, Mauser versions and even Remingtons, but I never hear "Browning A-Bolts." Why not?

They don't make any, the biggest caliber is 375 H&H which is not a Big Bore and they have other issues that do not make for the optimum DG. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by Walker:
Big Bores on this board are Model 70's, CZ's, Mauser versions and even Remingtons, but I never hear "Browning A-Bolts." Why not?

They have some function issues, but the fact is, no Push Feed rifle will be taken seriously as a DGR in Africa! All the rifles you mention are CRF rifles, except the Remington, and if you really want to start a 200 post controvercy,any PF rifle, a Rem 700, or a 45-70 lever, of any make, will do it quickly on a forum dedicated to African hunting!

I'm off this one! BYE!

quote:

Originally posted by Walker:
Big Bores on this board are Model 70's, CZ's, Mauser versions and even Remingtons, but I never hear "Browning A-Bolts." Why not?

My guess is that people who owned one and got rid of it would prefer to forget about them, and people who own one and still have it know everything they need to know about them, and don't need to ask questions.

George

I had one in 375 stainless recoil was viscious to put it mildly and it had the annoying habit of ripping the threads out of the scope mounting holes, twice this happended.
It also had a bad habit of loosening the action screws while shooting even torqued down and loctited in, my smith told me the stinless they use is quite soft, it was however very accurate (.75" gun with any load) but you really had to be focused mentally when you pulled the trigger, becuse it was gonna hurt.

Truly an abortion of the beancounters personified...

Course that just my opine.

I'm limited as to what I can say here ---
My lips are zipped:


My 'hoof in mouth' disorder:



__________________________________________

Walker,

There is an African Hunting section of the Forum, but I presume you checked in here at BIG BORE because the .375 is listed as the starting point.
Without going into too much detail and with an attempt at redeeming myself here as one of 'The Few - The Proud - The Remington Shooters' , the guys are correct in what they say.
The Remington 700; Browning A-Bolt ( II ); the SAKO 75; and to some extent, even the vaunted Weatherby rifles, are NOT considered Dangerous Game Rifles.
Mostly due to the Controlled Round Feed issue.
Although, some of the other engineering features are also considered 'sub-standard' for hunting AFRICA.

I was hot on a .375 H&H for years and almost went with the A-Bolt II because it IS a 'nice' rifle chambered in that cartridge.
I ultimately chose a Remington 700 in .375 ULTRA MAG because I could have a rifle I was comfortable and familiar with in a proprietary .375 cartridge that upped the power level slightly. I'm happy with my choice.

You'll have to decide what you want to do with the rifle and cartridge of your choice.
(Just don't tell anyone that I'm considering getting a Mauser/CRF rifle in a BIG BORE suitable for AFRICAN HUNTING...as long as I can keep the 'safety motion' the same as my Remington 700's.)
THAT would indicate leaning towards the CZ 550 American Safari.
Further study shall ensue. And that's what this Forum is all about!

quote:

Originally posted by Walker:
Big Bores on this board are Model 70's, CZ's, Mauser versions and even Remingtons, but I never hear "Browning A-Bolts." Why not?

Only because the A-bolt is an unreliable piece of cheese. Just get a little dab of mud on those grooves in the bolt if you want to see one bind up forever.

And they are Fugly, too.

Hog Killer

They may be ugly, but they look nice next to a Savage. ;-) Actually, I don't think the A bolt is that ugly. In fact, I have owned three: 2 - 375 H&H Medallions, and a 270 Stalker. All three of them were very accurate, especially the 270 - all sub MOA with factory ammo.

hmm, guys..

the problem with the a-bolt is that there was no choice in DGR class rounds until lately ....

Funny story on the abolt.. my nephew sent his bolt to have his name engraved in the flat...

comes back... yep, his name is engraved...

and if it had been a right handed bolt, it would have been perfect!!!

wonder how cheap i can get one in 300 win?

jeffe

I don't think there'll be another "200 post controversy" on this one. It's already been done. But, let the lookin down the noses begin. I just bought a Stainless Stalker .375 H&H. It's currently at the smith's being converted to .375 Weatherby. I have no plans of ever seeing African soil. So if it doesn't qualify as a DG rifle, I don't care. I have yet to run across an A-Bolt that was anything less than reliable and above-average accurate. I'll let you know how it pans out.

quote:

Originally posted by Strut10:
I have yet to run across an A-Bolt that was anything less than reliable and above-average accurate.

You obviously haven't run across the one I used to own (and have been trying to forget).

George

May be that many people in my age group, 50's
think shotgun and $$$ when we hear Browning. I have no idea even when the Abolt came out and do not even think I know anyone who owns one.
When I looked for a 375 I did look at an abolt
and a Whitworth. Bought the Whitworth and felt I got more for my money. As already stated they make nothing bigger so when I looked for a Lott
they do not have one. All my others, 30-30,06,
etc were bought years ago when i had never heard of an abolt.
If You look at all the custom guns made and posted on this fourm and find one based on an abolt action let me know as I have yet to see or heard of one. May be a reason. Just MHO.
Gene

I own a .375 A-Bolt stalker and have hunted Africa and OZ with it Ten Times. It is short, ugly and stone stock reliable and will shoot sub MOA at 100 yrds with every load I ever tried in it. I honestly can't remember how many critters I've killed with it. Up to and including one cape and two water Buffs. It's light and cheap to replace. I don't think much of the A-bolt action in comparason to a GMA or CZ550, but then this gun is just a Beater. A Damn good Beater though!-Rob

First off I do not own an abolt..........but have owned a couple in smaller cal's over the yrs. Not my favorite......I perfer mdl 70, CZ and mausers, but one that I had in small cal good shooter and I hunted with hard a couple of seasons.........but I swapped it off no big deal

Not sure I agree with one of the comments about them not making any as a 375 is not a big bore.........it may be on the small/starting point of large cal's, but it's earned its keep over the yrs.

As far as lack of 375 H&H's in abolts, they really don't target that group of shooters..........but who does anymore other than CZ of the mass produced........sure as heck don't see new Mdl 70 wins growing on trees. I'd guess and somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but large cal's are a small part of the market.

A lot of the 375 and above shooters have no problem with a used gun.....whitworth and etc. With that said, I'd bet more of the smaller cal shooters perfer new guns.......seems to be a lot of small cals sold new to me.

To sum it up.......Browning probably doesnt make many........cause the market is pretty small........if it was larger you could walk into gun shop and buy one new off the rack and its getting kind of hard to do......I havent seen a new mdl 70 in 375 on the rack in a while. Just my comments for what its worth.

THe 375 is indeed a fine caliber, arguablt THE finest caliber ever made but it's not a Big Bore. It's classified as a Medium. jorge

It is on this forum jorge.

quote:

Big Bores
For those who like the larger calibers, from 375 and up to the 1.008 Vincent Buffalo Thumper

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
THe 375 is indeed a fine caliber, arguablt THE finest caliber ever made but it's not a Big Bore. It's classified as a Medium. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by Walker:
It is on this forum jorge.

Much to the dismay of those of us who know better!

George

Okay, I'm new at this big bore stuff but willing to learn. What defines "Big Bore"

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
THe 375 is indeed a fine caliber, arguablt THE finest caliber ever made but it's not a Big Bore. It's classified as a Medium. jorge

when? until the 577 became the NE, it was a heavy medium.

375 is a big bore, fellas.. just not a 45/70

In addition to the numerous faults listed by previous folks, let me add that it is a one barrel rifle i.e. almost impossible to remove the barrel without twisting the action if you ever make the mistake of attempting to re-barrel it.There are much better choices out there, avoid this one.

quote:

Originally posted by Walker:
Okay, I'm new at this big bore stuff but willing to learn. What defines "Big Bore"

After the advent of smokeless powders, the British classified anything under .30 caliber as a small-bore, .30-.375 as medium-bores, and .40 caliber and up as big-bores.

George

After the advent of smokeless powders, the British classified anything under .30 caliber as a small-bore, .30-.375 as medium-bores, and .40 caliber and up as big-bores.George[/QUOTE]

George, as usual is right. As much as I like and larn from this forum, they are not the "Orachle At Delphi" for gorund truth. Most if not all folks in the trade consider the 375 a medium, whcih of course is that it is. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by Gringo Cazador:
Not sure I agree with one of the comments about them not making any as a 375 is not a big bore.........it may be on the small/starting point of large cal's, but it's earned its keep over the yrs.

As far as lack of 375 H&H's in abolts, they really don't target that group of shooters..........but who does anymore other than CZ of the mass produced........sure as heck don't see new Mdl 70 wins growing on trees. I'd guess and somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but large cal's are a small part of the market.

.

Gringo, The big bore has always been a small part of the market, and have never been plentiful on the shelves of your local gun shop! I would say most new big bore rifles are ordered for a customer by the shop, and delivered to the customer when it arrives, with few other customers every seeing it! Used one, are also traded between owners, and buyers for the most part. Again not showing up on the shelves of gun shops.

The smaller chamberings are generally seen on the shelves of any gun shop, but more often on the shelves of Wal-Mart, and the like, so more folks are aware of their existance. It stands to reason, the cheaper rifles in the smaller chamberings will be more in the public eye, that specialized big bore rifle.

What I'm saying by all this is, simply because you see more of these PF rifles in the fields of North America, is no indication they are up to the task of takeing on a serious DGR
job, any more than the amount of rhinestones seen being larger than the amount of diamonds, one sees, makes the rhinestone better, or even equal.

In the matter of the 375 H&H being a big bore, or not, Walker is right! On this forum it is listed as a big bore, so it would follow that he would post it here. It is not, however, a big bore but is a medium bore, being in the slot .339-.399 cal, while big bore starts at .400 up >>>======>! Anything below .330 is a small bore. This is if only bore size is the criteria! If FPE is considered then big bore starts at just under 4000 FPE, regardless of bore size.

All this is simply smoke and mirrors, and is, in reality determened, more accurately, by what the cartridge is capable doing on large angry animals, on a consistant basis. So, in reality, there is no hard and fast rule, that will cover all bases!

I would not be frightened to take on the bigest animal on Earth with a good load in a 375 H&H, but I still conmsider it a medium bore!

so what you guys are telling me is I only have two big bores instead of five .........but none are Abolts......lol

Good reason to build a Lott..........but maybe thats why I have a 3 postion saftey for a CZ in my desk.....wondered why I had that safety

all the ones we have used have been nicely finished and very accurate. only problems was in a 300wsm which would not feed last round from mag. they aren't a CRF mauser action, but they are ok in my book. particularly that crazy thumbhole stock m1000, on a prone or rested shot that thing is a killer.

cheers,

ps i'm a real fan of browning shotguns!

Ammunition and rifle development did not end with those English poofters in the early 1900's. The advances in propellants, and more recently the advent of a wide variety of "super bullets" has increased the killing abilities all calibers.

As defined by putting a ruler across the muzzle, the 375 H&H is a medium bore. As defined by its functionality (ie results on game), it is a big bore.

lawndart

I've heard of at least two stainless a-bolts on Alaskan coastal hunts rusting up so bad they were unshootable, and one that was taken on an African safari that had the cast trigger guard crack. Thats enough for me to steer clear of them.