Hi gang,

Thanks for all the good info. I probably will not do much more until the weekend. I am waiting for some Honeber 505 Gibbs cases to arrive and I think they should be here early next week. I got a UltraMag BBK-01 action ordered today just for this job. There is so much going on here and I think I will go crazy pretty soon. Please stay tuned.

DaggaRon,
You are one step ahead of me as far as the throat dimensions. This is an area that still puzzles me and I am grateful for your suggestion and info. I will put your throat dimensions into my model and see how everything fit together. I wonder if you could email me a copy of your 510 JAB reamer drawing. If you cannot then I will understand. I like the idea of shooting 750 grain 50 BMG projectiles with this 510 wildcat but I think it will have to be single fed. As for the brass thickness, I have to do some measurements with those 505 Gibbs brass when they arrive. I will jam a 600-grain Barnes solid into the 505 case to see what is the actual neck diameter. Funny how I conceived this wildcat based on a cartridge that I have not even seen it before. As for the twist rate, it will probably be the standard 18” from PAC-NOR. I really do not have any experience with different twist rates so I am open for suggestions. If your twist rate works well with your 510 JAB then I should probably use it. By the way, what would be a good round nose projectile for this cartridge? I would like to select a main hunting projectile to work up loads just for this cartridge. Is there a 600-grain round nose soft point like those Hornady 45 caliber 500-grainers out there? Thanks.

Nickudu,
Thanks for the name suggestion. I think BMG pretty much read my mind as far as my intention to name it Ninja. However, the name is not set in stone so it can be changed if there is a better name for it. Thanks for the info about the case capacity by the way. I think the short neck of the 500 Jeffery would allow more case capacity than its longer brother 500 AHR.

JS_280,
I can calculate the case capacity with different methods. I usually prefer to do a virtual modeling and let the computer do the calculations for me. However, you need a CAD solid modeling system to do that. You can also do a manual calculation by calculating the volume of the cartridge and then the weight using the specific weight of water time the volume and then convert lb to grains. Good luck.

Okay guys and now I have some more questions to stimulate more input. Is the .500 in neck length long enough? I am just concerning about seating those 600-grain Barnes solids way pass the neck. Is this current case capacity (160 grains of water) good enough? Should the case capacity be more or less? I think the 500 part of the cartridge name is a little boring. I am thinking about may be changing it to either 510, or 508, or 511, or 51 or 50 or something else. Please keep all the feedback coming. Thanks.

Cheers!
Ming

Hey Rob,

Thanks for the info about the 500 AHR case capacity. Please no sorry is nessesary. This is a public forum and you can say anything in any post that you want. I was just joking. I think your exchange with Axel would make my wildcat more popular.

By the way, I emailed you a PDF file of your latest 600 dimensions. Let me know if you need to change anything. Thanks. Ming

Ming,
Email a fax number and I will fax it to you. Otherwise, I have to get the wife to fire up the scanner. I am barely computer literate and would rather send a fax.

Yes, BMG/target bullets are single shot mode, and hunting bullets are magazine fed. No problems.

Barrel twist should be faster than 15" if you want to shoot the long BMG/Target bullets at less than BMG velocity. 18" twist would be O.K. for the lighter bullets. McGowen was supplying stainless .510 barrels with 10" twist. I know of no other source for such fast twist barrels. I got two of his and they are accurate.

Barnes Original 600 grain RNSP's may be hard to find, having been recently or soon to be discontinued. Barnes 570 grain XLC's and the GSC 570 grain FN and HV are good, but Woodleigh may be the only reliable source, though other small makers are out there, for RNSP bullets.

Ming,
Just kidding about the name suggestion. I'm on a sort of "Skebenga" kick. "NINJA" is quite cool!

I think that ninja's a great name Ming and you should definitely stay with it. It stands out from many of the other wildcat names even if it has nothing to do with Africa.

Ming,
Definately go with a 15" or faster twist on the barrel. The whole twist thing can be confusing, but just think of the .223 Rem Model. If you're shooting 55gr & lighter for varmints, a 1:14" twist is standard. However, 1:9" twist for 62gr bullets & 1:7" for really heavy/long .224" bullets such as 80gr VLD.

The same is applicable for the .510 barrel. With heavier/longer bullets a faster twist is necessary to stabalize them. A football thrown with a fast twist stabalizes quicker & longer than one with a slowww twist.

Ditto BMG.

Ming,
"508 Ninja" to make it racier? The excellent .408 Chey Tac brass could be used to form the brass, or good 505 Gibbs like Nickudu has found from Horneber?

I faxed the .510 JAB reamer drawing. I would love to see one of your graphic renderings of it. It can serve as a model for the throat specifications that need to be decided on when the reamer is made.

Cheers!

DaggaRon,

I really appreciate your reamer drawing. I hope it will be there tommorrow when I get to work. As for the bore twist rate, I will talk to PAC-NOR to see if they have a twist rate between 10 in and 15 in. The reason I wanted a PAC-NOR barrel is because they can custom profile the barrel to my drawing and they have make good SS barrels. I will also consider McGowen but I don't think he does custom contour. I think I will use a #8 straigth taper so it may not need to be a custom profile. It will be a while before I get to that point so I have some time to think about this. So your 510 JAB rifle has a 10" twist barrel from McGowen? I may go with this same setup. Yes, I will definitely have to try to produce a rendering of my model for your viewing pleasure but it will be sometime on the weekend probably. I am using my state of art computer modeling system at work to do all this but I cannot do anything during my regular hours at work. Later buddy!

BMG,
Thanks for the insight about different twist rates. I will probably be following a similar setup as DaggaRon's 510 JAB rifle since it worked so well for him. To be honest with you, I am all new to this big bore rifle stuff so I am learning as I go. It's wonderful that you experienced guys take the time to provide all the great insight about some of these stuff. Everything provided here is worth gold in the big bore wildcatting world.

Thanks guys for your recognition of my wildcat name. I did give it some thoughts before I called it Ninja. Orginally, I wanted something associated with America like a famous place or something about American culture. I won't tell you my list of names I created previously on the drawing board for this wildcat but I can tell you that there were quite a few of them written down. Anyway, I will probably change the number to call it a 508 Ninja or a 51 Ninja. I will decide when I send my drawing out for dies.

Cheers!
Ming

DaggaRon,

Thank you for your 510 JAB reamer drawing. I will plug in your dimensions to create a model and a drawing. May I post my version of the drawing with your dimensions here for verification? Looking at your drawing, it seems like it got a very short freebore. The drawing shows only .300 in while the hand written note shows some addition freebore. Also, I don't see the dimension between the freebore and the reamer pilot.

I talked to Penny from PAC-NOR today about getting a faster rifling twist for the 510 caliber. She told me they only have three different twist rates for the 510 caliber. They are 6-groove/18", 8-groove/9", and 8-groove/14". They can make a different combination but would charge a tooling cost around $250. Which of these three twist rates would you recommend? I will also try to call Harry to see what he got. What is the number of grooves of your 1:10" 510 caliber barrel? Also what is the catridge overall lenght of your 510 JAB with the 750-grain Hornady A-MAX BMG projectile, assuming your case lenght is 2.903"? I just ordered some Woodleigh 570-grain soft points and some Hornady 750-grain A-MAX projectiles today? I will use these two "main" projectiles to work up load at least at the beginning. Many thanks buddy.

Nickudu ,
I just recieved some Honeber 505 Gibbs cases today. They look BIG compared to the 416 Rigby. Your measurement of 180 grains of water capacity for the 505 Gibbs is right on. This means my digital model is correct. Later guys.

Cheers!
Ming

Would it be possible to neck down the .585 Nyati to either .416 cal or .510 cal and how would each work ?? or which would be better. Would the .416/585 be an over bore ???

Ming,
The McGowen 1 in 10" twist stainless barrels have 6 grooves.

The Pac Nor 9" twist would be best for the heaviest bullets of 750 grains. The 14" twist might be the best compromise if you plan to use mainly 570 to 600 grain bullets.

The 15" twist is standard for 50 BMG's pushing the heavy bullets much faster. Velocities slower than the BMG would indicate the need for a faster twist barrel to spin the football for the throw down field.

Fast twist barrels might give better penetration but less velocity for a given pressure.

I just know that I couldn't ask for better performance than my McGowen 10" twist barrels, for 600 to 570 grainers at 2400 to 2450 fps (no better buffalo basher), and either 750 or 705 grainers at 2125 to 2150 fps (supersonic past 1000 yards and extremely accurate) with no pressure problems, probably about 50,000 PSI.

I used some trigonometry to recalculate the leade distance to add to the freebore to equal the throat total. This is 0.300" freebore plus 0.229" of leade down to the pilot. This is my JAB throat.
Forget the doodling item #5 about freebore on th epage I faxed. My mistake. You can verify my correction.

510 JAB throat = 0.300" freebore + 0.229" of leade (1.5 degree) = 0.529" throat total.

I have another 510 JAB that was made with a 500 A2 reamer of .400" freebore + 0.188" extension of throat with a Dave Manson throating reamer, for a total throat of 0.588". The Hornady 750 grain A-Max can be seated out to 4.760" COL in this throat. Remember those long bullets are very pointy (high ogive number) and take less freebore than appears at first blush

The Standard 510 JAB reamer will take the 750 grain Hornady A-Max out to COL 4.701", and I think this is the way to go. What I have works. Dave Manson designed the throat to accommodate my dummies loaded with black tip AP bullets. Everything else works well too.

No secrets or mysteries here, unlike the mystical 50 Peacekeeper. The 510 JAB came first.

Please feel free to post a drawing of the 510 JAB. In fact I beg you to! Please!

Ming - Did you at some point indicate a desired or primary bullet weight on which to base your model?

DaggaRon - Have you the water capacity of the .510 JAB and could you verify the headsize for me?

Ming,
Like Daggaron suggested, the 1:9" 8 groove barrel for the Ninja (I would stick to 500 Ninja instead of 508 or 510 ONLY because of todays political climate) would be the best choice.

I just recieved back form Pac-Nor my .50 BMD rifle. It is a .378Wby based case (.30-378, .378, .460, etc) cut to 2" with 619-800gr BMG bullets as the primary projectiles. The rifle began as a .30-378 Sako TRG-S and now sports a #7 SS Match .510" 22" 1:9" barrel. It also has a Holland recoil lug and is able to hold 3 in the detatchable mag and one in the tube and it feeds sooo smoothe. The velocities of 650gr Ball rounds is about 1500fps with about 45-50gr of various powders.

I plan on getting my .510 JAB completed in the near future, my delay and not the smith's. Also, I'm not an expert in gunsmithing/ballistics. I just recall & filter the information I've obtained throughout the years, but thanks for your kind words.

Good luck & keep us informed!

PS. Can someone post a PIC for me if I e-mail it to them? It's of BMG bullets on top of .50 BMD's, .510/460's, a 416 Rigby, & a 308 Win size comparisons.

[ 09-28-2002, 01:47: Message edited by: BMG ]

Nickudu,
The 510 JAB water capacity is exactly 150 grains on an average of several weighings by me, rounded to the nearest grain.

Donnelly says the 505 Gibbs is 180 grains, same as you have reported here.

The 510 Wells is 147 grains. So the 510 JAB holds 3 grains more than the 510 Wells.

Base of the case measures:

Head diameter = 0.582"
Belt diameter = 0.603"
Rim diameter = 0.583"

So, the 510 JAB holds 30 grains less water capacity than your 505 Gibbs.

Thanks DaggaRon. The A Square, JAB, Jeffrey and AHR all offer an internal capacity similar to that which the proposed abbreviated .505 case would provide. Seems to boil down to achieving the desired case styling Ming wants along with how low an operating pressure he wants with what bullet...

DaggaRon,

Here is an electronic drawing of your 510 JAB reamer design. Please let me know if you see any dimensional error and I will correct it. Let make know if you want a PDF file (read by freeware Adobe Acrobat Reader)of this drawing as it is handly to have especially if you are gonna email the drawing to somebody in the future.

I talked to Harry yesterday about a 510 caliber barrel and he told me that he now only makes 8-groove either in 1:10 or 1:12 twist rate. A stainless version runs about $275 plus shipping. I just might go with his 8-groove 1:12 twist barrel.



Nickudu,
Yes, my original parameters called for a 600-grain at around 2400 fps at around 55 ksi. I am changing the parameters for this wildcat cartridge as I am getting more info. I think that I have to settle on a 570-grain at around 2400 fps and below 45 ksi. This is a big cartridge that ocupies a large diamter in the barrel shank so it would be wise for me not to exceed 45 ksi. Now that I got some 505 cases in front of me, I am thinking about changing the design so the 500 wildcat will use the same base-to-shoulder length as the 505 but I am thinking about cutting the case length back to 2.95 in and form a 45 degree angle shoulder. This way making brass for this wildcat will be a real piece of cake with the 505 brass. This configuration would only have a .460 in neck length which is perfect for the 570-grain Woodleigh soft point. However, case capacity would go up to around 170 grains of water. I am calculating some ballistics data now so hopefully will come up with something soon.



This picture shows the 505 Gibbs, the 416 Rigby, and the 450 Rigby. Don't they look impressive together?

BMG,
Send the picture to me and I will see if I can post it for you.

PC,
Necking the 585 down to a 510 cal is something very similar to what I am doing right now with the 505 Gibbs/500 Ninja. I am not sure about necking it down to a 416 cal though as the case would be way oversize. However, I guess that anything is possible if you want to play with it bad enough. Have fun.

Later guys! Cheers!
Ming

Ming,
Thanks for doing the drawing. So kind of you to take the time. You are a swell guy. I surely would like to receive the PDF file, please.

Thanks for the update on the McGowen barrels. I have used 5 of his barrels in the past with excellent results.

Since you will have greater velocity potential with the 500 Ninja, though still not up to the 50 BMG speeds , the 12" twist makes great sense, and besides, the number of revolutions per second of your bullet will be the same as the number of fps at the muzzle, easier to calculate.

Nickudu and I batted around the idea of a 505 Gibbs simply necked up to .510 bullet diameter, a while back. I begged off because the .510 JAB did all that I could want with .510 bullets, and I have two of them! I see that you are going for the extra capacity of the full length Gibbs with a different shoulder and neck. The JAB throat would work well there too.

Sounds like a great project.

Do you have the specs on the 408 Chey-Tac? It might be interesting to look at that cartridge to see what they did to the 505 Gibbs case in necking it down to .408.

Thanks again. Keep us posted on any developments with your fascinating project.

Ming,
Ken Howell shows two drawings of the 505 Gibbs.

The "Birmingham Proof House" version omitted the shoulder angle, but showed a shoulder-neck radius difference of: (0.6000" - 0.5380")/2 = 0.0320". Then the neck tapered down to 0.5350" at the mouth of the case.

The "CIP Maximums" version shows a shoulder angle of 45 degrees, and a shoulder-neck radius difference of: (0.6000" - 0.5350")/2 = .0325". In this version, the neck is straight 0.5350" from base of neck to mouth.

BTW, it is interesting to note that the 500 A-2 and 510 JAB have a better shoulder than the 411 Hawk, but they rely on the belt instead of their miniscule shoulders.

411 Hawk: 0.012" and 17.25 degrees.
510 JAB: 0.015" and 30 degrees, plus belt.

[ 09-29-2002, 09:05: Message edited by: DaggaRon ]

Nickudu !!
I find it really strange that the .505 Gibbs with water cap. of 180 gr.(horneber) compared to the .500 A2 with 153 gr, won't get more performance,,cause the .500 A2 is listed with 2600 fps and 600 gr. bullets by Mitch,,and even tough it is bored up to .510 the Gibbs is still much larger.(maybe mitch has the combi of a very good gun and careful handloading,,as well as loading it a little bit harder than "normal"(55.000 c.u.p).Could you please explain to me why people won't try this case's real potential(maybe recoil !)

Mingo,
The 510 JAB suffers from a too short neck and a belt, though it works great, and sure is practical, easy.

You have the chance to create a case that is truly NoImprovementNeededJA. I let 470 Mbogo present a cartridge on a platter. Maybe a couple of years from now we will be ordering 500 Ninja dies from CH4D and brass from Quality Cartridge?

BTW, why I have been calling you "Ming" instead of "Mingo" I do not know. Must be dyslexia. Did you ever use Ming instead of Mingo as a handle, or just my discombobbulation?

Per577,
In the past, the 505 Gibbs was handicapped by brass availability, having only the weaker balloon head stuff that was designed for 40,000 psi use and the traditional Gibbs tropical loads. Now there is stronger stuff with heavier case heads, like the 408 Chey-Tac (by MAST?BeLL?) and the Horneber brass.

The 460 Weatherby Norma brass is about as good as it gets and is meant for the 60,000 psi redlining.
Hunting loads don't need to be any hotter than 50,000 psi with the 500 A2, and sometimes more is less with a hunting bullet, soft or solid, ja?

Time for Nickudu to post now.

Per577 - I thought your ".505 Ballistics" thread produced the answer to this question.

Thanks DaggaRon for the info about the two versions of the 505 Gibbs. This explains why my Honeber 505 Gibbs brass has a big radii around the shoulder area. The 505 Gibbs looks big but its size is just about right for a 510 caliber cartridge. I plan to order some "real" brass for this cartridge but also would like to be able to make brass out of the standard 505 casing. That's why I have been playing around with different dimensions to find a good solution but it looks like the shoulder will have to be pushed back one way or another. I can assure you that it will have a neck length of around .500" per your suggestion when it's finalized. I have never heard of 408 Chey-Tac before until you mentioned it. I will look into it to see if it's brass can be used for the Ninja.

By the way, I sent you a PDF file of your 510 JAB reamer design. Later.

Thanks!

[ 09-30-2002, 06:42: Message edited by: Mingo ]

DaggaRon,

I forgot to mention that I was changing the cap of my name at AR but made a typo but I like it so I will keep it. I am still Ming regardless.

Thanks!
Ming

Mingo,

If you go to

www.longrangehunting.com

You will get plenty of info on the 408. There has been a couple of big threads on it. I think the brass is supplied by Warren Jensen of Lost River Ballstics (I think that is the name) and is supposedly a 505 Gibbs Improved necked to 40 caliber and with brass that is also supposed to be hard and made by MAST. I think it is $1/70US per case.

Mike

Thanks Mike375 for the link. This is good news for me as my new wildcat is using the same brass. I hope to get it done soon.

Cheers!
Ming

Ming,
Thanks for the file, but in the process of saving it from hotmail to disk I lost it! I am a klutz with komputers! Could you send it again please? Sorry.

Along with the link Mike375 has supplied, try this:

http://www.snipersparadise.com/ELR/CheyTac.htm

It says that the MAST Technology cartridge cases with the improved head are available as formed for original .505 Gibbs and .408 CheyTac.

Note also that Dave Manson made the original reamer for the .408 CheyTac.

Cheers!

Daggaron what action is required to build the .408 cheytac ??

Are dies available yet ?? and it seems brass can be fromed from Hornebr .505 gibbs brass for the .408 cheytac ??

PC,
They use an action suitable for 50 BMG. Wind Runner, McBros, and such. Maybe the Armalite folks will chamber this next as the AR-40, ja?

BTW, that is a nice monster rifle, your Nyati, and a similar setup Rigby makes a nice battery, a walkabout rifle and the heavy artillery for seige work. Good job!

I will be away for a couple of days, see you guys later.

Cheers!

Dagga I have a cavity in the stock were I store emergency panadol

Well ,yes Nickudu,,i really appreciated those answers as one really don't need to have a rifle of 9000 ft/lbs power on a hunt,,but i were kind of very curious about .505 performance in horneber brass(as i thought it were better than Norma brass,due to strenght). And Ulrik have the most impressive load data in his .577 T-rex with Horneber brass( 2704 fps and 750 gr.Barnes monolithic solids,191 gr.of vvn-550).You see,,? that really convinced me that one could have ballistics,,bypass anyother previously loadings with this kind of brass compared to anything else.
By the way,,i can never get enough,,when we're talking foot pounds of energy,,as is the same case with Mr. Overkill,,i suppose. It's like having a car,,and you just are'nt satisfied with it,,then you start the thinking process of planning what sorts of alternatives could bring me where i want,,,f.ex hit 400+ bhp in your Audi S4,,,i'm sure you get my point. By the way,,it's raining every day so i must admit,,life get's sometime meaningsless without the ability to bore someone with these kinds of questions,on the "Accurate re..". As honest as i can be.
I have to find something better to do he,he

"BMG,
Send the picture to me and I will see if I can post it for you."

Ming(o), what is your e-mail address? I looked in your profile, but found nothing. If you want to shoot me an e-mail instead so I can follow the thread back to you, that would be fine also.

Thanks,
BMG

[ 04-18-2003, 00:44: Message edited by: BMG ]

Per577,
I assure you, my friend, you are certainly not boring!

I understand what you are saying .... "there should be more speed with this big case" and you are probably right. My Gibbs data, along with an explanation of my intentions, are in the Reloading pages of this website. You'll note that I wanted 2,300 fps with the 600 grain Barnes solids and I wanted it with the lowest possible recoil in my hunting rifle. To that end, I started (and finished) my load developement with RL-15 powder, knowing it has a burning rate that is somewhat faster than the usual powders used in this cartridge. What it did was give me the speed I wanted while burning the least amount of powder, thereby keeping recoil to a minimum, if "minimum" is the right word in regard to a .505. Luckily, the accuracy was also there, so I was done. I have no doubt that,with slower powders and good brass, one might achieve a much higher velocity @ safe pressures. How much higher may rest on which action is selected, along with a host of other variables that distinguish one rifle from another.

Yes, thanks Nickudu for the answers.
That was the answer i was looking for, and if i choose this biggie instead of .460 Wby Mag,,i would like to have it custom built and weighing 13 pounds,laminated stock(ugly maybe) but stabile,,and heavy.Not sure what barrel as if to achieve good performance,,but maybe lenght would be 24" or even 25"(muzzle brake would be an option,,but some traditional thinking people would look upon such an action as blasphemy !).At least when thinking of a 570 gr.solid woodleigh going as fast as 2600+ fps !a brake from Vais is fine i think(I 've heard his brakes are good and not too noisy, right)?The action would be of .750 bolt diameter i think(but expensive).
Either way i want a g.505 Gibbs as my thumper & for stunt shooting with voluntari friends !
The gun could also be converted from a CZ-550 action,,or a heym express rifle,,who knows !?

DaggaRon,

Thanks for the link. It is good stuff to read as it's related to the 505 Gibbs cartridge. I was trying to call Bell find out more about the 408 brass but could not get hold of the right man today. I hope their brass will be made to the same dimensions as brass made by Horneber. Later.

Another email with a PDF file is on the way. Thanks.

Per577,
I'm not in the habit of telling anyone what to do, especially when it comes to caliber choice. I would like to say that the first thing you need to decide if this is to be a rifle to shoot for fun with your friends or a hunting rifle. IMHO, these are very disparate goals and two very different rifles would result. In a hunting rifle, it's my feeling that it need not weigh-in at more than 10 or 10.5 pounds, dry. If you were to hunt hard day after day in hot climes, you WILL wear down some packing a 13 or 14 pounder. Do not allow recoil to unduly influence you, as the truest of all axioms is that "you never feel it when you're shooting game". A well stocked .505 is much more shootable than most folks might think, especially at typical elephant and buffalo ranges. I'll wager 90% of the fellows who post here can shoot my .505 and shoot it well in no time.

[ 10-01-2002, 04:45: Message edited by: Nickudu ]

Nicudu,

I agree whole heartedly that a true hunting rifle (one that you will walk for km's with) should probably not top 11 pounds tops.

That being said I would not want my .585 to be much lighter than the 13 pounds it is now.

I really like your .505 gibbs and my long term custom rifle goals is to purchase two ultra mag actions and have a matching pair of rifles built in .585 Nyati & .505 Gibbs. One .585 (my current one) will be exclusivily sighted for 650 gr woodleigh's with Bertram Brass while the Ultra mag .585 will be using & sighted for 750's with Horneber cases, and I will shoot 570 gr woodleigh's in the .505.

Nicudu you are using the 570 gr Barnes X bullet in your .585 but I only see it listed as .510 cal, are you swaging it down or are they cutom made

Gents,
What a thread ! From easy & outgoing to nasty and confrontational back to easy and Informative.
My oh my but we have a lot of informed and well meaning people here for 99.99% off the time.
Now that the real meaning and intent is back on the progress is inspirational. I have just recieved 3 500 A-Square proving <dummy> rounds from Roger Rothchilds supply,I have also contacted Chris @ Pac-Nor and my 'smith...My own 500 project is commencing...These cases with the 600gr softpoints are indeed amazing,imposing and actually frightening when setting next to a accepted elk round like the 30-06 with a 220gr bullet. I can hardly wait ! My timetable is to have my rifle ready by may 2003 giving Pac-Nor and my smith 7 months to have a rifle in my hands.
An acceptable and generous time frame I think.
I will go with the 14" twist rate as a compromise..I want a repeater with the ability to single feed bmg pulls. This forum has made a 500 class rifle unable for me to resist. The ability to resolve issues,share ideas,techniques and avoid pitfalls is commendable. My hat is off to you all. It shows again how sportsmen are the best of the best. RCBS,Dillon,ect,ect..have always gone above and beyond my hopes and so have you. Thanks ! I will continue reading this thread and keeping my eyes open. 45nut

Hi,

For those of you just bought some 585 Horneber brass, how much in USD did you pay for them? I got some pricing back from Horneber but it is not very clear if the pricing is in German money or USD. Any info will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Per577,
Randy Brooks of Barnes will draw down the 570 grain/.510" "X" bullets to .505" for you if you order a certain number of bullets. I think it was 100 or more. If enough guys wanted them, he would consider a run of .505/570 gr. "XLC" (with the Blue coating) bullets.

PC,

Given that you have a 585 Nyati and after initial field use on roos, you are happy and will keep going with it, perhaps a 50/585 might be a more convenient and practical choice than the 505 Gibbs.

One reason alone being the sharing of brass. Another reason being that the gunsmith has all the feeding nice and right for the 585 case body.

Also Woodleigh make 510 440 grain Blow Up bullet

To make a 50/505 would probably cost the same in dies and reamers as a 50/585 and it also takes away some of the 505s charisma.

If the 585 reamer your gunsmith used does not have a removable pilot, you could get Manson Reamers to a 416/585 with removable pilot and then you do the lot from 416 up with the one reamer.

With the Horneber brass, a 416/585 should be interesting. About like a 408 Chey-Tac but shorter in length.

You could load the 416/585 or even a 458/585 to higher pressure (no recoil limiting problems as with the 585) and when primer pockets started to get a bit loose, you could then assign those cases to the lower pressure loadings by necking them up to 585 and they would last forever when used as 585 loadings.

Since you would have the same case body you could also do the rifles in switch barrel. It is easy to avoid the second lug on the barrel, which virtually stops you from having a switch barrel set up.

Mike

[ 10-01-2002, 07:54: Message edited by: Mike375 ]