How do I get 4 rounds in my Whitworth .458. I can get 3 down and no more and won't feed a 4th. Same with my Browning FN .458.

Any suggestions?

Butch,

Why do you want the extra round, I thought you liked wrestling buffalo down.

Good talking to you today.

Sure get new bottom metal.

I loaded 3 into the magazine and the 4th into the chamber. Eased the bolt over the rounds in the magazine and pressed in on the side of the extractor to allow it to slip over the rim of the chambered cartridge and that's all it takes to have 4 rounds ready for use. I do the same thing with my Winchester Model 70's and a CZ .

without changing parts, you can't

If you really must have a 4th round on hand then you can chamber a round set the safety and open the floor and drop three in the mag and close the floor plate.

Von Gruff.

Give Duane Wiebe a call. He has the bottom metal you need, or perhaps just a slightly dropped floor plate for you to fit. I used one of his bottom metals on a Mark X Mauser Lott and 4 down it is. Makes it a 5 shooter without loading from the bottom. Stuff 4 in the magazine, slightly depress the 5th, close the bolt and.... Seems awkward as heck to me to bottom load.

Luck,

Stephen

quote:

Originally posted by Lord Frith:
Seems awkward as heck to me to bottom load.


Stephen

It is just a way of having 4 ready to go if the mag well and bottom metal will not acomadate 3 + ! easily. On my 404 I spaced the mag well down by 5mm and stocked it to suit standard 98 bottom metal and easily load 3 + 1.

Von Gruff.

BENGO do not worry about it. 3 down and one up is plenty enough.

I have done all my African hunting with double rifles, 2 Up and NONE down. I am still alive...

LIsten to 375ej, he told you how to do it..

You press firmly on the extractor with your thumb and push the round that you dropped down the barrel into the chamber,The extractor will over ride the case head and all you have to do is close the bolt..It works on Mausers, FNs and Model 70s, now your loaded and ready with 4 rounds.

Other options are drop boxes and that requires a new stock and quite expensive or you can have a good gunsmith add a milled out 3/8 inch floor plate to allow the magazine to take another round for about $300....Remember you can still get an extra round in there with any of options by squeezing the extractor..

Some gunsmiths convert the extractor lips to over ride the case head on a Mauser or Mod. 70 an all you have to do is drop a round in the chamber and close the bolt on it...IMO this practice has no business on a DG rifle that your staking your life on as by doing this procedure you have weakened the extraction capabilities of the round and those lips are thin from the procedure and its prone to breakage and could result in a stuck round in the chamber during a buffalo charge or whatever and that isn't my cup of tea...

Thats your options.

Thanks for the information gents,

Good ideas.

Is bottom metal a drop in affair? I kinda like the pot belly look of a drop box. Extra rounds would be nice to have on board too.

375ej and Atkinson have both give extremely good advice regarding “how to chamber a 4th round in a CRF rifle” – especially one that did not come from the factory with extractor lip designed to slip over the rim of a chambered cartridge. The only comment that I can add is that most of the commercial M98s manufactured after 1950 – which should cover your Whitworth and Browning – were manufactured at the factory with the extractor lip modified to slip over the rim of a chambered cartridge.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
375ej and Atkinson have both give extremely good advice regarding “how to chamber a 4th round in a CRF rifle” – especially one that did not come from the factory with extractor lip designed to slip over the rim of a chambered cartridge. The only comment that I can add is that most of the commercial M98s manufactured after 1950 – which should cover your Whitworth and Browning – were manufactured at the factory with the extractor lip modified to slip over the rim of a chambered cartridge.

Agree. I have a Browning Safari FN Long Extractor 458 win. mag. made in 1965...and three down with one up the pipe works just fine.

I close the bolt over the Belt of the third round and then clip the fourth one in then close it up.
I have done this with two Whitworth's in 458Win.

Ray
At what stage of production was the Model-70 not designed to allow the extractor to override the case lip ?

D'Arcy,
I have no idea,and that is an interesting question. I have had hunters whos M-70 would not close on a round they dropped in the barrel and I took the rifle and put their round in the magazine and closed it and handed it back to them on a couple of ocassions?? I assumed all Mod 70 were that way, so based on your post I took out my old 300 H&H I have owned for 40 years and ola!! it did accept a round down the tube and closed with a tad of resistence,a real surprise to me as I had never tried it. My sons Mod-70 will not close, so I went across the street and tried several others and they all closed. It is a practice that I never use as I load the magazine and close the bolt so my post was an assumption I suppose..What you have done is totally put me in a state of confusion and I am so grateful to you for complicating my life!

HOWEVER,all that aside, IMO modifing the lip on a Mauser to overide the case weakens the the extractor and lends itself to breakage and perhaps wear IMO. I would prefer to modify a Mod. 70 not to overide under these new circumstances. I believe that allowing and extractor to overide the case head requires removing metal in and allready thin area and is probably a poor practice. Also it's totally unnecessary as it is much easier to push a round down in the magazine and close the bolt,inasmuch as one has to close the bolt anyway, so what is the advantage or slopping it down the barrel as opposed to pushing it in the magazine??? especially if you are chasing a buffalo herd..By using the magazine you take advantage of the control feed aspect and your round isn't loose to fall out of the action, and that has happened to me and others with non control feed actions.

But thanks for the heads up, I think!

Ray was your sons rifle re-barreled or Factory ?

I read an article by Dave Scovill proclaiming the Model 70 Classic and Pre 64 as push feed only because you could drop a round in the chamber and override the rim with the extractor. But that is not the first time I've scratched my head after reading his column. Thank goodness for the clarity of the internet.

True Mauser is Controlled-Round-Feeding (CRF) AND Controlled-Round-Extracting (CRE) because of that ingenious little bevel where the Mauser extractor seats in the groove on the side of the bolt body/head.
Pulling the bolt backward forces the true Mauser extractor claw inward, tighter toward the long axis of the bolt, toward the center of the bolt face.

I have never had a Winchester M70 that would not slip the extractor claw over the rim on a direct feed by hand into the chamber,
and it does not require the "Mauser Extractor Finger Pinch" to do so.
However that does not make it a pushfeeder when fed from the magazine.
It is a CRF, just not a CRE.

The distinction between Mauser and M70 is not so much in the modified or non-modified claw,

but in that groove on the bolt head where the extractor is seated and rides when the bolt is turned and pulled backward or pushed forward.

CZ 550 actions are also CRF&CRE, like a true Mauser, but I cannot think of any others ...

From that wonderful book by Stuart Otteson THE BOLT ACTION (Vol.1) Page 13:

Required reading at AR.com University:




Extractor tongue undercuts: that's what I was trying to say.

Most magazines that will not hold a 4th round will allow a bit of downward movement of the 3 in the mag. Just place the 4th round on top of the 3 and press down as far as it will go and slide the bolt forward. The 4th round will drop enough to allow the rim to slip into the bolt face even if it doesn't drop enough to be held in the magazine.

Back in the day, mid 60's, a friend of mine using his dad's early pre 64, mod 70, 06 dropped one in the barrel and closed the bolt on it and when he fired and opened the bolt it left the spent casing stuck in the chamber ending his shooting for the day. Ever since that event when i close my bolt on a casing i dropped down the barrel i reopened it part way to check and see if the extractor engaged the case. I've never had an issue in almost 50yrs of doing it this way.

D'Arcy,
Perhaps the culpritt has been discovered..Each of the M-70 rifles that I have mentioned that would not allow the extractor to overide were custom m-70 rifles with new barrels. My old 300 H&H is an original mod 70 with the original barrel custom stocked by me in 195? and it will overide the round...

I reckon you have figured it out...Thanks for the heads up.

My favorite rifle, with all the faults of a Pre-64 Winchester M70, it ain't Mauser-perfect, but it will do:

However, the Pre-64 M70 box is "Mauser Cosine Perfect" for the .375 H&H, and thus also for the .395/.375 H&H, a simple neck-up.

Holds 4 down in the box, and one in the chamber, in the slim, flat-bellied old girl.
Feeds perfectly, even FN solids like shown, fast or slow.

One rifle to grow old with, and hunt anything with, and want nothing more: Gentle on the shoulder, and lethal at the muzzle.
With 240 to 330-grain monometals, and even a 410-grain Cast Boolitt with gas check at 2200 fps (LBT custom mould, thanks to Veral.)
.396/250gr gaschecked mould comes off the shelf from NEI.
CEB Raptors some day?