Check midway's clearance section 505 gibbs brass bantram pack of 20 for $28. They don't have much left it looks like

thanks for letting us know.. bertram brass is DEADSOFT

Huntington's has Horneber 505 brass back in stock at a reasonable price.

quote:

thanks for letting us know.. bertram brass is DEADSOFT

True, but unless you are loading to ridiculous pressures I don't think it matters. The original factory load has a max pressure of around 45,000 PSI to drive a 525gn bullet at 2300fps. I use 130gn AR2209 (equiv to H4350) behind the 600gn bullet for 2300 fps, and 140gn of the same powder behind the 525 gn bullet for 2500fps, and get no pressure signs, negligible lengthening of the cases, and I am up to 5 reloads on some cases with no problems whatsoever.

338,
you might want to reconsider the word "ridiculous" .. bertram brass, for 585 nyati, 577 NE, 505, 500 jeffe, and 577/500 have been unable to make book loads without deforming and sticking. We may have different standards, but exceeding book by 200 fps in your example is certainly eye raising, for using brass that can be crushed with my thumb and forefinger.

it is dead soft, and Bruce is trying to make a turn to make it better. For example, his new 404 brass is fanstastic.

Me, myself, and I would buy jamison, for about the same rate.

quote:

bertram brass, for 585 nyati, 577 NE, 505, 500 jeffe, and 577/500 have been unable to make book loads without deforming and sticking.

Add .450 Rigby to the mix as well.
Even with very mild loads, (a 500gr bullet at 2100ft/sec.) I sometimes get primary extraction problems. I use Normas that has been fire- formed exclusivelu, for much hotter loads with no problem.

Well, your comments are interesting. My rifle is built on a Granite Mountian Arms action. It feeds and extracts effortlessly, and I have loaded up to 138gn of AR2209 (equiv to H4350) behind the 600gn Woodleigh, for 2400fps or 142 gn of AR2213SC (equiv to H4831SC) behind the 600gn Woodleigh for just over 2300fps and 140gn of AR2209 behind the 525gn Woodleigh for 2500fps and the bolt lift after firing has never even been slightly stiff. However 138gn AR2209 behind the 600gn Woodleigh results in a bit more recoil than I like to handle, so I prefer to stick to the 2300fps load, but even at 2400fps I have never had any extraction problems, or any problems for that matter. All my cases have been purchased recently. I got my first batch in March this year, so perhaps I have some of the more recently manufactured batches. I have some Horneber cases too. They are about 0.001" thicker at the neck and take a little more effort to resize, but in terms of performance I don't notice any difference between them and the Bertram cases. I have some Norma factory ammo on order, so I will be interested to try them when they arrive (I've been waiting a long time already).

338user, I rarely inject my own opinion into a tread not began my myself, but here I have no choice. The data you list scares the hell out of me. I have loaded for and shot the Gibbs and though 2400fps is possible, the pressure was getting right to the top edge of safe and in some combinations, over the edge. Granted I am not using powder from the same company that you are, but H4831 is something I have burned about 100 pounds of over the past 25 years. There are several experts out there that limit their loads to the 130-135gr range with a 600gr bullet and H4831. Phil Shoemaker(Who posts here as 458win) did say in an article some time ago that 150gr of 4831 was possible, but that was just something he was told by a guy at a gun shop. His loads are twelve grains short of yours and Phil knows big bore rifles and loading as well as anyone. In fact, Phil was getting 2350fps from 130grs of IMR4831 with a 680 grain bullet. That is out of a 21" inch barrel none the less. I can't imagine what would have happened if he was to increase the charge to the level that you are using.

Now combine the fact that the brass in question is about as soft as brass can be, and I am just astonished that you posted loads like you did. Good luck with your Granite Mountain action, they make a beautiful product.

Joe, I appreciate your concern , but every rifle is different, and no-one should just try any loads without working up from safe published values. I posted the loads more to support the fact that I have had no problems with the Bertram brass than anything else. It looks to me like the brass being made nowdays is tougher than what other people have experienced. The A square manual is the only one I found with published loads, and they list 132gn H4831 with the 525gn bullet for 2257fps. It is a bit different from where I ended up, but I have often found significant differences between published loads and some of my personal loads, and then again thre are some published loads that I can't achieve in my rifles. I started at 122gn of AR2213SC (equiv to H4831SC) with the 600gn Woodleigh when I first started working up loads. I was concerned that would be too light. The case holds 145gn of that powder (filled to the base of the bullet with no compression), and 132gn is only 84% full. I have been reloading for 29 years and I am confident that my reading of pressure signs is reliable. I get no indication of unacceptable pressure with any of the loads I mentioned. However, this doen't mean that other people with different rifles and components won't get higher pressure. I stopped where I did, not because of pressure signs, but because I was satisfied with the loads I had worked up (ie 600gn at 2300fps and 525gn at 2500fps), and the recoil started to get to where I found it unpleasant to shoot more than a few shots. I have fired several hundred of the 600gn loads, and about 50 of the 525gn loads, and in all those there has not even been anything approaching a slightly stiff extraction. I have yet to shoot anything other than paper targets with it, but I hope to get a bit of practice on the feral pig population early next year, in preparation for buffalo later on.