Well this seems like the place to ask the question. How is the best way to get into a 458 Lott for a big bore newb?

Is a factory rifle like the Ruger M77 Hawkeye a good option? Other factory options?


or. . .
Is a custom Rifle like the ones made by the Montana Rifle Company a much better option. It would look like this: Montana PH action, ~20" heavy barrel, Laminate or othe basic stock, Barrel band hooded front sight. Quarter rib with 3 leaf express on the rear, about 10 lbs, attractive, but functional metal finish. . .


What do I give up by going the factory route. . .other than saving a few $1000 dollars?

Get the CZ, it's the cheapest bang for the buck, and besides it's a great foundation to build on. Completed new rifles SHOULD be under a thousand. Here's a pic of my CZ in .458 Lott and it was only $869- retail new. Rodney.

get a CZ for less than 900, BED II and shoot

I forgot to mention the barrel band sling swivel and the mercury recoil reducer, but it looks like CZ can do that too. I see the crossbolts in the post picture, but not on CZ's website. . .So, on a new one, will I have crossbolts?

How is it to shoot with open sights?

Nathen, I don't know your area but there has got to be a gun shop or chain store like Cabelas or Gander Mountain somewhere in your area that stocks CZ rifles. Maybe even a gunshow, checkout the classifieds here but there IS an affordable CZ bigbore out there with your name on it if you want it. Rodney.

Nathan,

I'll also recommend the CZ550 as a base point. As of a couple years ago they all started getting crossbolts installed from the factory.

Once you get it, send it to Wayne at AHR and have him do his Upgrade #1 as well as bed the rifle (and any other customizations you must have like a barrel band swing swivel, NECG sights, etc). Wayne will make the rifle function flawlessly and you wont be parted from you rifle for too long (I think mine was gone a total of 3 weeks). All said an done, you'll have a flawlessly functioning semi-custom rifle for about the same or less than the Ruger RSM.

The stock can also be made up real nice with the help of some sandpaper and elbow grease.

I got a CZ 458 Lott at Cabelas about a year ago for $999. The gun fits me real well. But I had a feed problem and it was just a tad on rough side. Binding, which I smooth out myself. I think I can live with it now. At that time, in that store the Ruger was 1999. Double the price.

I just looked and found the cheepest CZ .458 is $1100 at Cabelas, today.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas...05_cz550s458_leh.jsp

Here is a new Ruger .458 at a Cabelas for $1700

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas..._rugrm77458l_lav.jsp

If you buy the CZ and just shoot it, You are way ahead. If you want reliability and smooth operation, bolt safety, new trigger then that will cost you another $500 at American Hunting Rifle (AHR) plus round trip shipping. And not everybody is up to the extra effort.

Both guns, the same price in the end.

I like the CZ with 5 shots in magazine and 1 in the chamber is a 6 shooter. The Ruger holds 3 in the magazine. Weight about the same. American vs. import if that matters to you. I like the CZ but I don't see any slam dunk obvious choice. I have a Ruger .416 and can say they are NOT EVEN CLOSE for out of box quality and reliable function. The Ruger is way better, unless you drop the extra 500 for AHR treatment. Then I hear from reliable sources (here)the CZ is better. My Ruger wood is nicer than my CZ, if that matters.

I am no heavy weight guy. I find the CZ in 458 easy to handle. No need for mercury reducers. Try it, I bet you will be surprised. I also like the feel of the CZ, which some call clunky. Opinions vary. For me it feels perfect. I like the 25 inch bbl. Maybe someday I will someday go for the AHR upgrade. The Ruger has classy sling stud on bbl while cheeper American safari CZ has the stud on the stock. CZ has set triggers, ok with me, I never set it - but it really puts some guys off. I prefer the Ruger safety and trigger.

The CZ used to have stock cracking problems. Those are corrected on current generation factor guns with dual recoil lugs and some bedding. But the old bad reputation dies hard. I think.

If you want minimum cost, buy a CZ and leave it alone. Do nothing, or tinker on your own.

I suspect, most buyers never go to Africa and just shoot the big guns for fun. Thats me. The CZ seems most FUN for the buck. Almost, Dirt cheep -If you can accept it as-is.

If you live near a Cabelas, I suggest you take a look at these two for starters. Consider the quality along with up front cost.

I was real impressed handling and with the appearance at the Kimber Caprvi. It is under $3000. I dont have one, but I wish i did. It looks like a great gun. A class act with rave reviews in the magazines. Not heard a word on this forum about Kimber, but then I am new here too.

Synthetic stock optional, control feed, 4 round magazine, made in USA. Beautiful wood. Express sights, bbl mounted stud. Reported extremely accurate. Perfect...

http://www.ableammo.com/catalo...p?products_id=106479


http://www.kimberamerica.com/rifles/africa-alaska/

Nathan,

You perfectly described the Ruger M77 Safari Magnum chambered in either .458 Lott, .416 Rigby or .375 H&H. Probably the finest factory rifle ever produced. The Ruger RSM is a $5,000 plus dollar rifle for equal or less than $2,000. Others are $500 to $600 factory rifles for $1,000 plus.

quote:

You perfectly described the Ruger M77 Safari Magnum chambered in either .458 Lott, .416 Rigby or .375 H&H. Probably the finest factory rifle ever produced. The Ruger RSM is a $5,000 plus dollar rifle for equal or less than $2,000. Others are $500 to $600 factory rifles for $1,000 plus.

My thoughts also. The Ruger M77 RSM just Screams SAFARI rifle, to me anyway.

OK, I like the Ruger and the CZ550. I'm not crazy about the safety or bolt handle on either. It looks like the CZ can be modified for both and even have the barrel band swivel and the quarter rib added for a reasonable addition of cash.

I think that puts the Ruger out for now.

The Kimber looks about perfect as far as I can tell, except it doesn't use the quarter rib. i really like the asthetics of that. It also is not a true square bridge action. Again an appearance issue.

Probably all three would get the job done if I had a buffalo starring me down.

So, I have to ask. . .What is the comparison between settling for the Kimber ($2500), CZ customized some ($2200) vs. a full custom for $4500 on a Granite Arms or Montana PH action?

Starting with a CZ 550 Magnum and then making AHR-standard modifications is the most cost effective way to obtain an excellent DG rifle in .458 Lott.

Forget about the quarter rib on a CZ. If you have to have one get the Ruger. Nobody can touch one at that price. Otherwise a CZ will be fine for the money.

I own the CZ 550 American Safari Lamanated 458 Lott. It cost me under $1000. It sure shoots acturely. Three shot group is about 2" at 100yds
thats with open sights.

Get a CZ and try it out before you do any mods and then you will know what if any changes you might want. To me a rifle is an extension of ones self, it must fit well, shoulder and point with sights lined up effortlessly. Either rifle could possibly need changes as factory models are mass production and a one size fits all kind a thing. Fit is very important for recoil absorption and quick handling. I only suggested the CZ as they are good rifles with a proven history, inexpensive, and easy to customize. Rodney.

I also have a CZ 550 American Safari in .458 Lott and absolutely love it. It is very accurate and have no problems with the stock splitting (so far) and I have shot it alot. It is a great entry-level big bore. I have other more expensive big bores, but the CZ is great.

I have two cz safari's 458 win- 458 lott no problem with either till I got the bright idea to try a lead sled off the bench results- two split stocks I got the lott warranteed as it was new -the 458 I am in process of rebedding- reinforcing -adding addnl x bolt. just cant decide whether or not to put the factory recoil lug back behind the rear sight or just use glass or steel filled glass any suggestions/comments?

nathan, i am selling my cz 550 american safari magnum in .458 lott. pm if you are interested. maybe i can even figure out how to read it if i get it.

The safety on the Ruger is without question the BEST IN THE INDUSTRY! It blocks the trigger and firing pin. Modifications to the CZ are EXPENSIVE!!! NOTHING REASONABLE!!!! The Kimber is in no way in the league with the Ruger RSM!!!!! NO!!!!!! All three are NOT capable of the charge. THE CHARGE IS ALL ABOUT RIFLE BALANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Montana actions are Ruger owned Pine Tree Castings ACTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bottom Line: A Granite Arms action is $5,000 USD in the white. A custom rifle with a Granite Arms actions will cost you $12,000+ USD. It makes me wonder if you know your ass from deep center field? A CZ is a money pit. I've owned two. I didn't learn the first time. The Ruger RSM is the finest production ever produced!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The RSM is a $5,000 USD plus rifle for under $2,000 USD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have 4 Winchester M70s all in 458 Lott, and I am sorry I would not go to the field with anything else! If I backed down, the only other choice would be the Ruger, or look at a Kimber. Since I will never back down, then the Winchester is the rifle for me. Now these are extremely hard to come by these days, and if one finds one then it is very expensive, and even to the point of nearly overpriced, even by my standards. Today if I had to have a 458 Lott, I would buy a Winchester in 375 H&H and have SSK convert it to 458 Lott, end of story. Not the most cost effective way to get into one, but you get what you pay for!

Michael

quote:

How is the best way to get into a 458 Lott for a big bore newb?

Nathan, I don't know if you are going to hunt dangerous game, if you're not then why not look into a Ruger #1 to see if it will do what you want.

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
. . .
Montana actions are Ruger owned Pine Tree Castings ACTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

. . .

Ruger is know for their incredibale casting process. Why are the process owner's(Ruger) designs being attributed to the Montana design because of where it is cast?

I ask because I hear this quite a lot, but at least 70% and I would argue closer to 90% of a products quality or function come from final machining, fitting and design. I would also argue a Ruger casting is a good starting point production or custom.

quote:

Nathan, I don't know if you are going to hunt dangerous game, if you're not then why not look into a Ruger #1 to see if it will do what you want.

Ideally, that is what this would be for. I'm in a slow down regarding this activity though because of the economy's effect on my job as well as other factors. It will probably take me 2 years or so to get this figured out.

I've had good luck with my CZ Safari Classic so far as a 375 H&H. We'll see how it is when it comes back as a 500 Jeffery in a week or so. I'm hoping it's awesome. My 375 H&H was accurate, fed and extracted well, action was a bit rough, but after cycling the bolt a few hundred times it's fine and more importantly no wobble. The action is machined from forged steel. If you buy one off of the rack get it glass bedded, don't buy one without two crossbolts I think all the new ones, even the 375 H&H's have them now.

Saying all that, for any of the rounds (375 H&H, 458 Win Mag, 458 Lott, 470 Capstick) that will work in a standard length action, there are probably better options. A pre-64 or a new Model 70 (heresy, but I like the stock style of the new M70s better), would be a great starting point as would a good mauser that's already got a nice stock. Gunbroker has quite a few with FN commercial mauser actions. This is assuming that you are in the Ruger RSM price range, if not, a CZ is really your only option.

I'm not a Ruger rifle fan. I've owned one, and sold it. Actually it's the only rifel I've ever sold. An M77 (1977 vintage) in 270, it wouldn't shoot better than 1 1/2" groupa at 100 yards. After trying to tweak it for a year, I sold it that year and bought a Rem M700 BDL in 270 that shot nickel sized groups with handloads out of the box. I just handed down the rifle to my son and it's still shoots under .5" groups. I have friends that have Ruger No 1s which I think are beautiful, however the Web is full of pages for modifications/tweaks to get them to shoot accurately. Also, I think due to the stock design they tend to hurt more than other rifles in the same calibers, defintiely something you don't want in a 458 Lott.

Anyway my two cents, I'm putting my asbestos suit on now ...

Regards,

Chuck

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
I got a CZ 458 Lott at Cabelas about a year ago for $999. The gun fits me real well. But I had a feed problem and it was just a tad on rough side. Binding, which I smooth out myself. I think I can live with it now. At that time, in that store the Ruger was 1999. Double the price.

I just looked and found the cheepest CZ .458 is $1100 at Cabelas, today.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas...05_cz550s458_leh.jsp

If you live near a Cabelas, I suggest you take a look at these two for starters. Consider the quality along with up front cost.

This one belongs to me, now. Not exactly sure what I'll do with it, but IT's MINE!!
Action is very slick and handled a short .458 Win load and a Hornady 500gr FMJ/RN with equal ease. Gotta decide whether to scope it or not!

Bob

Ruger is a great product, with exceptional customer support if needed. Dr.C

I have a CZ 550 in .458 Lott. The action was very stiff when it was new. A little polishing compound and a couple of hundred bolt cycles and it now slides like it's on butter. I purchased my rifle new about 3 years ago and it came witht dual crossbolts, so I guess CZ started installing them sometime around then. You really know you have touched off something big when you pull the trigger, but it is not unmanageable. I don't think I would shoot it off the bench again unless I really had to.

Also, the Ruger .458 Lott is not in the Hawkeye series of rifles. Dr.C

You can also find a M70 in 458 & it's an eaasy conversion from there. Add a Dakota 1/4rib if you like & away you go. I had one built, worked fine, but found the 458Lott was more gun than I was willing to shoot a lot. Sold it, bought another M70 & had my 404jeff built, perfect big bore!

I love my CZ 550 in .458 Lott. It shoots VERY well and cycles great. You can not go wrong with a CZ.

quote:

Originally posted by mousegun1:-the 458 I am in process of rebedding- reinforcing -adding addnl x bolt. just cant decide whether or not to put the factory recoil lug back behind the rear sight or just use glass or steel filled glass any suggestions/comments?

.


With my CZ 550 Lott I epoxy bedded the action and the under barrel steel lug in it,s recesses . Have shot it hundreds of times since and No stock spliting issues ..... I honestly think that not releiving the wood , or fiberglass for that matter behind the rear tang and the trigger guard . is almost a guarantee the stock will split vertically into the grip ...... I,ve split 5 stocks that I can remember , and all were snug behind the tang and trigger guard ....They looked very nice , until they broke .......A little gap in the right place looks perfect ...

Nathan

I can get you a brand new RSM 458 Lott or 416 Rigby for 1700.00 plus shipping to your FFL if you can't find one where you live. They are really nice guns for the money!

I have the ruger magnum and i take her out put it on a lead sled with 25 pounds of shot and put 35-40 rounds thru her an outing.. I would not recomend that with the cz, sheels in great falls montana said they got 3 cz rifles back with cracked stocks, they may replace it, but you get what you pay for.. Iv heard of two weatherby 340/360? stocks breaking, now they come in plastic stocks wood is a whole lot more bout 3 grand. My ruger was made with a tree stump and one tough hombre.. dave. my opinion only i only have one big gun, and dont own a cz.. so your milage may vary.. If your stock breaks in a few months you shoild be ok after that you may be on your own, is what ruger told me.. dave

Hello Buliwyf,
I would venture to say that you are a big fan of Ruger's RSM rifles. Well, when you consider the features w/ the RSM's such one piece barrel/rib, barrel band, barrel band front sight, quality express rear sights, scope rings included w/ rifle and bullet proof mounting system w/ receiver milled for the rings, very smooth action and acceptable trigger for sporting rifle, quality stock, it is indeed a bargain in the market of big bore bolt guns. Ruger service for me anyway over the years has been excellent and have three of the RSM's and still less cost in what I percieve of way overpriced custom rifles. To each his own,but the idea of sending off a rifle purchased from a mfg. and then having it modifed/worked on, etc., to bring it up to acceptable standard is not desireable for me. I know many do it and they seem quite pleased with the result and that is what it is all about in the end.

If I could venture into this discussion. I own CZs (.416 & .505) and love them. However, my advise is the ask around and shoot both. I am sure many in your area will be happy to let you shoot their rifles given that you are trying to pick the one that is right for you. I say this as Rugers don't feel right to me. I know this is me, it isn't the rifle, but I am happier with CZs. When trying them caliber doesn't so much matter as long as it is .375 or up so it generates a good recoid impulse. Then purchase the one that feels better to you and go from there. You will not be sorry!