The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Model 70 pre-64 in 416 Rigby from Factory?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
One of Us |
Saw one coming up for auction, SN# 1963 manufacture year. It has all the original Winchester markings on the barrel indicating 416 Rigby. Assume this was a rare factory offering or a custom order from Winchester? Could it hold 3 down or limited to 2? Any thoughts? "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | ||
|
| One of Us |
https://www.proxibid.com/Firea...Information/50315695 "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
|
| One of Us |
https://images.proxibid.com/Au...5785_webimage_12.jpg "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
|
| one of us |
thanks to all | |||
|
| One of Us |
Did you work on this rifle? "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
|
| one of us |
No this was a reply to a differnt post I should not be allowed around a key board | |||
|
One of Us |
Pretty cool. But why only a grand so far? | |||
|
| One of Us |
Auction house, not gunbroker.com I got a ZG47 based 30-06 for $650 from an auction house. "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
|
| one of us |
Sit and watch, that $1500 will go sky high in the last few hours of this gun, and its jumped to $1500 since your post..Im tempted to bid on it but it would be folly, the big boys will pay whatever it takes.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
|
One of Us |
I have not heard of a Model 70 in 416 Rigby until they made the custom African Express model a few years ago, certainly not pre '64. That said, I never say never (usually...) and if this is a legit factory made 416 Rigby it will go stratospheric in the pricing department. The fact that it has been restored: "Metal surfaces expertly restored to Winchester factory new condition. All markings sharp with Winchester proof markings" makes me doubt it is the real deal though. Who would refinish all of the metal if the markings are so perfect? Anyway, even Griffin & Howe shied away from building 416 Rigbys on the Model 70 but maybe made a few. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Weren't some made on the M98, about the same length as a Pre 64. | |||
|
| one of us |
Yes, that is true, like Harry Selby's .416 Rigby, standard M98. I heard the Winchester Custom Shop made one or two .416 Rigbys on the Classic action, before they swore off. I never heard of a Pre-'64 M70 made into a .416 Rigby. Ditto Huvius. Suspicious. | |||
|
one of us |
There was a Classic Model 70 416 Rigby from the custom shop on Gunbroker a few years ago. ------------------------------- Some Pictures from Namibia Some Pictures from Zimbabwe An Elephant Story | |||
|
| One of Us |
Sold for $4000.00. | |||
|
| one of us |
1963 SN action, Roger Rule book of 1982, THE RIFLEMAN'S RIFLE, makes no mention of .416 Rigby chambering. Yet it went for half the collector value of a pristine Pre-'64 M70 African .458 WIN, much more common with 1,226 made. Must be because it was "restored" after hard use in the field by someone less famous than Harry Selby.  Good price for a shooter, or curio? Item Description: .416 rigby Serial # 574393 Super Grade Pre-64 model 70 in rare .416 rigby. Professionally restored. Metal surfaces expertly restored to Winchester factory new condition. All markings sharp with Winchester proof markings, refinished wood with sharp checkering. No provision for rear sight with rear receiver mounted peep sight, Winchester recoil pad. Barrel 25" C&R. Was that a re-bored .375 H&H barrel with the roll-stamp altered to say "416 Rigby" ?   Versus the factory Pre-'64 H&H action, opened to both front and rear?  Roger Rule says bridge hole spacing is 0.425" not 0.437". Take your pick. Not much room left here to convert a 3.6" box into a 3.8" box:   | |||
|
| One of Us |
I have a pre-64 416 Rigby built by Frank Wells that I am very fond of, and when this came up I did bid on it and I paid more than I wanted...Will tell you folks more when I get it. JM | |||
|
One of Us |
If that roll mark on the barrel is fake, someone did a very good job. | |||
|
| one of us |
Here are 3 letters of master engraving I had done about 2001. It is on a Winchester M70 Connecticut Classic .375 H&H barrel that started off at 24" length. It was cut off at the breech to 23" length for setback re-threading and re-chambering of the .375 H&H to .375 RUM. The "RUM" used to be "H&H." Not meant as a fake, just a redesignation of chambering:   BTW, that .375 RUM was done with a CZ 550 Magnum action that had serial number "AHR 50001" with all action markings below the wood line. I found the loose action in Great Northern Guns, Anchorage , AK about year 2000. The custom walnut stock was found at Boondock Sporting Goods, Eagle River AK, about 1994, made originally for a BRNO ZKK-602. Despite what the rollstamp on the barrel says, my "parts gun" was put together in Murfreesboro, TN.    It was my first "WinCZechster." I have another one of a different sort: A CZ .458 WIN barrel on a Pre-'64 M70 action.  Rip ... | |||
|
| One of Us |
I called Montrose Auction house and asked them to post the rolled stamp cal. It was not in the photo's at the start of the bids..It still confuses me as the only roll stamp was on a later version of the Safari..will take a better look at it when I receive it..Jm | |||
|
One of Us |
You can in this instance. I did see a sample model at the Winchester (USRAC) at DSC a few years ago, but I can tell you there was never a 416Rigby before 1964...or 2002 for that matter USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
|
| one of us |
Ive been around way too long to accept this rifle as anything but a fake..If not then get me a factory letter from Winchester..and it makes no difference how nice it is a fake is a fake... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
|
One of Us |
So what do you think its value might be, Ray, just as a shooter? | |||
|
| one of us |
Somebody paid $4000 for it as a curio, not a shooter, hopefully, unless with 28,000 psi plinking only.  | |||
|
| One of Us |
$4000 plus 18% for the house plus shipping.... | |||
|
| One of Us |
Given the amount of money for a Pre 64 Super Grade in 375 and also 458, then $4000 for that rifle suggests it is fake. If that was a genuine faxctory Pre 64 in 416 Rigby it would be worth a lot more than a 375 or 458 Super Grade. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I was totally convinced that the roll mark was fake and then took a look at many other pre '64 Model 70s and now I'm not sure. Hope it is a good serviceable rifle for the new owner. | |||
|
| One of Us |
| |||
|
| one of us |
Copyright September 2000, Catalog for the 2001 year of Winchester Rifles and Shotguns: Sweet Thanks for posting that. !New! that year in the M70 Classic were RUM, WSM, 6.5x55 Swede, .470 Capstick and .416 Rigby. The latter two apparently only as Custom Shop offerings. The .470 Capstick was also included in the 125 matching sets of five M70 rifles, the "Big Five" collector series. Those .470 Capsticks had over-sized grooves of 1:10" twist with rough segments you could feel a patch snagging on when cleaning them, after noting keyholing at 100 yards with .474"-diameter bullets. I heard it through the grapevine that only two .416 Rigby rifles were made on the Connecticut Classic action. Apparently they are indeed ultra-rare. I wonder why they were not more popular? It is still a shocker to see a "factory" Pre-'64 M70 .416 Rigby. I still think the roll stamp is a fake. Below is the mid-1990's roll stamp of a .375 H&H Connecticut Classic that was changed to "RUM" in 1999-2000, before the factory .375 H&H RUM M70 Classic was available from Winchester. It is pretty easy to fake something like this, reminder: Cerakoted. Rip ... | |||
|
| One of Us |
I called Winchester once when I saw the Rigby listed to see how to get one as the company I worked with didn’t see it was available. The person at Winchester told me the 416 Rigby offering was a “printing mistake.” I said, “But you have a separate part number?” “Like I said, it was a printing mistake.” | |||
|
One of Us |
Hmmm. This would be an interesting factory letter to read. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I have seen that before about the print error. Pehaps you previoulsy posted about the letter. I am not 100% sure but I think there has beem at least one other in reference to a calibre/M70 combination. | |||
|
One of Us |
Please do let us know. Might it be possible to get confirmation from Winchester based on the serial number? When did Frank Wells make you the M70 416 you already owned? That too would be an interesting rifle. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Frank and I are partners at my gunshop..We built 2 416 Rigby rifles 2 yrs ago one on a pre-64 win and one on a granite Mt action..I have received the Supergrade in question and provide the following..the stock is a late model Supergrade and inlet for a African action with recoil lug..Under the barrel is stamped "SUPER 416R" the barrel has no provision for rear sight, Lyman 48WJS peep, the front sight is a later #7 ramp. The barrel markings are the same as a short mag marking of the late pre-64. No barrel band. Floor plate stamp same as late model super grades. This is not a factory rifle..the box is 3.6 and has not been widen. the follower is for an H&H..so it does not accept the 416 Rigby length std round very well if at all. the chamber seems fine.. We had to get a Montana box and follower and modify to get my Rigby to feed well. I will shoot it soon..The stock was sprayed with oil before wrapping so I need to try to clean off the plastic from the wood and put some bedding in it. I think this rifle was put together by someone with a late pre-64 H&H super grade and spent some real time putting the barrel together..When we have time I think we will work on the box and follower see how it shoots...I have 3 416's 2 458 Lotts and a bunch of 375 H&H so I will be covered for the next trip in Oct....More latter as Frank will have looked at it..He might know who the smith was..jm | |||
|
| one of us |
If you have any pictures to add to this most interesting thread, please let us know. Sumbuddy ought to take care of that, to further this most interesting topic. Please send me a PM if you want me to post a pic, thanks. Rip ... | |||
|
Moderator |
Rip is correct, Winchester "fesses up" to exactly 416 rigbys, from the custom shop, pre bankruptcy, in total opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
|
| new member |
I have a custom shop model 70 in 416 Rigby. It’s the only one I’ve ever seen. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I’d love to see pics of that. | |||
|
| One of Us |
| |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Model 70 pre-64 in 416 Rigby from Factory?
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia