You are planning a trip to Africa to hunt elephant or buffalo. It will be a traditional tracking hunt. You will be hunting in the Zambezi Valley in an area with jess blocks as well as Mopane woodlands. You have three rifles to chose from to take with you. <BR><BR>Rifle One is a .404 Jeffery built on a Mauser action. It has a 24" barrel.<BR><BR><IMG class="inline_image" SRC="http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e80/MikeJines/CompletedHoop404001-2.jpg"> <BR><BR>Rifle Two is a .585 Nyati built by SSK Industries. It has a 20" barrel, plus the brake.<BR><BR><IMG class="inline_image" SRC="http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e80/MikeJines/DSC_0493-3.jpg"> <BR><BR>Rifle Three is a Holland and Holland double rifle in .500/.450. It has 26" barrels.<BR><BR><IMG class="inline_image" SRC="http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e80/MikeJines/2004104333416325018_rs.jpg"> Which rifle would you take and why? Would the length of the barrels on any of the rifles play any significant role in your decision?Rifle OneRifle TwoRifle Three

I`ll take the double.If I ever think of taking the middle one may lightning strike me or have an ele stomp me or a buffalo gore me.People who chose the middle one or anything like that,should not hunt in Africa(they were meant to hunt someplace else but I don`t know where),IMO.

I would take the Holland & Holland, then after the hunt fake my death or change my identity and not give the rifle back to you.

Seriously, I would take the H&H because it's an awesome double rifle, although the .404 Jeffery is really very nice and with my old tired eyes, the scope would be great for buffalo.

No. 2? Very well might be the most practical, but...pass.

I suppose I am one to put a lot of value in nostalgia and tradition.

On second thought I would first have to check the bores for wear.

Mike,

I would take rifle no. 3 because it's a double and you know I'm obsessed with doubles. And it's a H&H which is VERY COOL! However, your choice of weapons given is a bit limited. If I had other options, and one of those options were a double with 24" barrels, I would choose it first and a 20" to 22" CRF bolt second.

If I can get the traditional velocities out of a 24" barrel in a double (and I can with the CEB bullets in the Merkel 500NE, and the VC 577NE) then I don't know why I would choose a longer barreled rifle. It wouldn't be for a better sight radius as I'm not likely to shoot a buffalo or elephant beyond 50 yards (certainly not an elephant anyway).

Some may argue that the double rifles look better with longer barrels. I don't. I think they look better with shorter barrels. However, as you and I have discussed this previously, I will grant that with the ultra bores such as 577 and 600, the 24" barrels can sometimes make the rifle look a bit stubby due to the diameter of the barrels.

My 2 cents!

For me number two. I would prefer a 500 something over the 585, just due to recoil. But for sure the shorter rifle. The short rifles i have just balance so well and feel so nimble in my hands i would have to give this one a try.

I'll take #3 with a hacksaw a red dot sight and #2 for the PH
I'd take your gorgeous 404 because I love that gun.

I voted for #1.

If it was just elephant, I would take #3.

I just shoot better with a scoped bolt gun, but no way I would take a muzzle breaked gun to Africa. I have too much respect for my PH.

Certainly, any would do the job, but the classics are my choice. Wood, blued steel and a cartridge designed before I was born.

The list gave me the only option I would have wanted anyway so the 404 it is for me, and that is a lovley example to boot.

#3 for sure. Although the 404 may allow for more shot opportunities due to its scope a hunt like that is all about getting close so I'd go for the double. If it meant I had to pass up a few shots due to lack of a scope I really don't care. Now if if I could I would take the 404 too, after getting the buff or elephant it might be nice to have a scoped bolt rifle for some plainsgame hunting. They are both gorgeous rifles.

I have to go with the H&H, it's a dead mate to the one. That .500/450 cartridge will flat do the job. I just never was into buffalo shooting at long range.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
If I had other options, and one of those options were a double with 24" barrels, I would choose it first and a 20" to 22" CRF bolt second.

If I can get the traditional velocities out of a 24" barrel in a double (and I can with the CEB bullets in the Merkel 500NE, and the VC 577NE) then I don't know why I would choose a longer barreled rifle.

That's okay Todd, ugly guns need love too.

[None of these are mine by the way. Although I would be proud to own One and Three, Two not so much.]

None of the above--if I can afford the trip--I can afford the rifle I want-

Which this year was a 416 B&M with a 20 in barrel and a 1.5x4 Trijicon scope. it was perfect for the thick brush on the Limpopo for buff and elle- I am sure it would do just as well in the Zambezi

1 & 3 because there is no good reason not to take both!
But in saying that, my next Safari will be with a rifle similar to number 3.

I'd take the 404.

For me the larger bolt gun and the double are less versatile. I don't care where I'm hunting in africa if the opportunity arrises for a non targeted game animal I'd like to be as capable as possible. The scopes in the picture appear to me to be low power variable so close shots at dg can be taken as well as longer shots at a kudu or duiker.

I just don't feel the need yet for a huge rifle. Truthfully tho', ten years ago I saw no need for anything larger than a .300. Five years ago I felt no use for anything larger than a .375. Today I own 2 lh .458's.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:


That's okay Todd, ugly guns need love too.

how could anyone not go for the 404j?

1st choice the double

2nd the 404 (beautiful gun!)

there is no third choice

and my choice..... take the double and the 404!

Double rifle-- no question. That is what they were made for! Barrel length no concern for me.

Which gun have you not blooded yet? (1or3)

Keith

If I could replace the stock with one of mine, take off the muzzle brake and put it in place where the sun doesn't shine.

Replace the sights on the barrel with peep sights on the receiver.

Reload the .585 Nyati to the maximum the action will take.

Not just a strength wise, but also an extraction wise.

It would be the 2nd. (NUMBER TWO)

Even if it is a pushfeed action at least it has the right size hole barrel.

If not allowed to make any of the changes it would be NONE.

Pyzda

I think either the .404 or the double would be wonderful, but...

If Mike Jines is giving away a rifle to hunt with, who in their right mind wouldn't want that Holland and Holland sidelock?

#2 is just plain ugly, and I'd never have a rifle like that with a muzzle break. If you can afford to hunt buffalo and elephant, you can afford a better rifle than that fence post.

Either one or three. If you saw what my K-Gun looks like after this trip in the Omay you would not let me take either as they are both too nice.

When given the chance, you cannot pass up the opportunity to hunt Africa with quintessential double rifle. All else is heresy!

The Double Rifle Gods in Valhalla do grant you a dispensation in this matter and will allow you to take the 404 Jeffery as well!

Absolutely no question about it ...

Gun Number 2



on anyone who disagrees!

I voted for No. 1 as I have a 404 Jeffery. However, if offered use of No. 3 I would have NO hesitation in accepting.

Whatever you take, do a favour to your PH and leave rifle No. 2 at home.

That muzzle brake is just plain rude to the poor guy who probably won't have a chance to plug his ears before you shoot.

Besides, the other two are both great rifles, with classic looks.

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:
Absolutely no question about it ...

Gun Number 2



on anyone who disagrees!

Which, I guess, means every PH who'd guide you!

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:
Absolutely no question about it ...

Gun Number 2



on anyone who disagrees!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:
Absolutely no question about it ...

Gun Number 2



on anyone who disagrees!

I voted for #3, but would take #1 and #3 and hope #1 never needed to be taken out of the slip.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
a Holland and Holland double rifle

Let's see - How hard of a decision is this really?

You have a H&H double rifle and are going to Africa.

Duh

I'm really surprised the 404 didn't win out.

quote:

Originally posted by Pyzda:
If I could replace the stock with one of mine, take off the muzzle brake and put it in place where the sun doesn't shine.

Replace the sights on the barrel with peep sights on the receiver.

Reload the .585 Nyati to the maximum the action will take.

Not just a strength wise, but also an extraction wise.

It would be the 2nd. (NUMBER TWO)

Even if it is a pushfeed action at least it has the right size hole barrel.

If not allowed to make any of the changes it would be NONE.

Pyzda

376 Steyr

I'm rather pleased to see how people make their DGR decision.

Useless piece of fancy dandy wood, Mauser traditional look and a double.

The .404 Jeff. is not a stopper, for me it's out of the hunt. FULL STOP.

The double 26" barrels??,,,,,What for? An open country and/or the jess blocks? MAKES NO SENSE.

The Weatherby Mark V pushfeed, what good we ever heard about it??? NOTHING (on this forum anyway).

However mine .460Wea. Mark V fired some 3000 rounds full trottle 500gr./2600+fps without a single slightest problem whatsoever.

Many times in 40-45*C heat. The rifle was immensely aggravating not because of the performance, but because of the length and nice shiny wood.

The Weatherby Mark V wouldn't be my first choice DGR.

However purely based on my personal experience I would not have the slightest problem to use one again if it had the right length barrel and the calibre to go with it.

MARK V 20"BARREL/NO BRAKE/.585 NYATI PERFECT.

A SHORT MANEUVERABLE STOPPER WITH ENOUGH VELOCITY for more open woodlands.

Pyzda

Oz nailed it in my opinion. Ideally, I'd take the 404 and the double. Elephant only, the double clearly gets the nod. 404 is more versatile. While I've come to prefer synthetic stocks for most hunting, I've never been able to embrace muzzle brakes. That's the only real knock on #2 in my opinion.

I'd give my left nut for that H&H. Anyone want a well used left nut?

465H&H

I've never hunted those big animals. Nevertheless, if I were faced with the choices you offer, I would choose the double if the going was slow and the brush was thick. If the terrain was open and there was to be a lot of walking, then I would choose the .404 bolt rifle.

Sorry, but a barrel heavy custom using a wildcat cartridge so huge that you can only load two down and one in the chamber, built on a Weatherby Mark-V action, set in a noisy plastic stock with a forearm suited to benchrest shooting, and blasting gases 20" in front of one's face has no appeal to me. I know it does for some and will for others. But, I consider it an ill conceived jumble of well meaning features. I'd much prefer an off the shelf and unmolested Weatherby. We all have our opinions, right?

That Holland is a fine looking piece, but I'm VERY partial to the 404 as I own a Heym bolt in 404 that has been to Zimbia and Zim and have taken 2 buff with it. It fits me like a glove and packs plenty of punch.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

The 404 is not a stopper...hmm. Learn something new every day!

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
I'd give my left nut for that H&H. Anyone want a well used left nut?

465H&H