I've looked around at custom barrels for the larger bore rifles, with a particular eye to getting the quarter rib, recoil lug, sling swivel and front sight base all integral. I have seen several rifles with these soldered and screwed on, and find that inevitably this causes irregularities in the bore and makes the rifle more sensitive to load variations.

Cutting the barrel from a single chunk of steel solves this problem. The proper sequence seems to be: drill the blank under bore, cut the outside profile, then ream the bore and cut the grooves, then chamber.

Right now I find that Cutrifle and Badger Barrels are the best sources I can find for these barrels. Cutrifle is essentially a true custom shop, Badger seems to be set up to get economy from a multiple run. (Badger has computer controlled equipment that can duplicate the external profile.)

My idea was that if we could agree on an external profile for big-bore calibers, we could get Badger to make a production run. The profile should be good for .375 to .510 bore sizes, with emphasis on .4 to .5 bore size. Standardizing the external profile is where the savings would be realized, the bore size, chamber, throat and rifling details could be custom for each barrel.

I suspect that getting even six in the original batch would get us down to a reasonable cost per barrel. The profile would be stored on computer, and would then become a standard product from Badger.

If there is enough interest I will investigate this further, I did not want to bother the folks at Badger without some basis to start.

Variables to fix profile.
Barrel length: (to front of front sight, could have length ahead of FS that could be ported/threaded/cut off)
Barrel diameter: base/muzzle
Front sight base:
Rear sight base:island/quarter rib/full length rib
recoil lug: solid/dovetailed like CZ 550
sling swivel: integral barrel band/simple boss

I'd say 24 inch, quarter rib, solid recoil lug, barrel band swivel that looks just like the add-on, barrel 1.25" dia, at chamber, .7 inches at muzzle, front sight for Masterpiece replaceable elements.

I think the material could be either stainless or CM steel, as an individual choice, but I have not verified this.

Any chance we could agree on the profile?
What would we name the profile?

Don

[This message has been edited by Don G (edited 06-29-2001).]

Have you looked at the barrels from Wells Sport Store in Prescott, AZ?

They offer:

1. integral 1/4 rib
2. integral recoil lug
3. integral front sight ramp/band
4. integral rear sight island
5. integral swivel stud
6. half octogan, full octogan, etc.

At the SCI show this year they were talking $1K to $1.5K for a barrel with all the bells and whistles.

But why go chrome moly? You can get special blueing salts that will blue a stainless barrel black. Then you will have a black barrel with the corrosion protection of stainless. Just and idea.

Cutrifle does the barrels for Well's Store. The numbers you quote are about 1/2 the list price on the Cutrifle web page I pointed to above. They say $3000 for a full dress barrel. Bill Thompson, who works at Cutrifle sometimes posts here, and talks sense. If I wanted a full custom rifle and money was no object I would probably consider his barrels. Unfortunately money IS a problem right now!

I expect we could get the price down into the $700 range from Badger if we had several people interested. Stainless is available, I just like CM. The only problem is that to get the economy allowed by the computer controlled (NC) milling equipment the outer dimensions of all the barrels have to be exactly the same.

Getting 6-8 people to agree on that profile is probably unrealistic, even though the same profile would fit most practical action choices.

Don

[This message has been edited by Don G (edited 06-30-2001).]

Don,
I would be very interested in this project. I'm having a 470 Mbogo built later this year.I am only wanting a 23" barrel, but should be no problem to shorten an inch. It might be easier to leave off the front sight mount so that different length barrels would not be a problem.
Todd

500grains,
You are correct as far as the Safari Club Intl. show was concerned for the barrels that we were making. Dan Pedersen (Cutrifle) deep drilled the oversized blanks and I ran the exteriors, 1/4 rib and recoil lug only, and then Dan did all the rest of the interior work. We showed these at Safari Club for $1200.00 as a show special.

Don,
You are correct for the daily output of Cutrifle and Wells Sports Store. The full integral everything barrel normally runs about $3000.00, which is lug, 1/4 rib, front ramp and sight and sling swivel band, etc.

Now I'm sure some people are going to say "Hey, that's $1800.00 for a couple of small add ons."
The difference is that the barrels at Safari Club were run on my CNC mill, which, after the programming and tooling, were relatively "easy" to do. The barrels that Dan runs at Wells/Cutrifle are all done on very basic manual machines. It takes me about 2-1/2 hours to run the 1/4 rib, lug and contour the area around these objects. It takes Dan several DAYS to rough out a total integral barrel and then a few more to get the exterior finish nice. I know that nobody believes gunsmiths, but we have bills to pay and wives and all those other neat things that cost money besides the overhead of the shop and tooling. I'm not trying to be a whiner, but we put enormous amount of time and effort in to client projects because we have to have everything right.
Bill

Bill,

I wasn't putting down either your product or your price. You usually get what you pay for when it comes to custom rifles - either that or the 'smith isn't around very long.

I have not had the priviledge of viewing either your work or Dan's, but I know the price is outside my range.

I understand that the barrels from Badger will still need chambering, threading and fitting - and that these operations are not as simple when the sights have to wind up right side up. The finishing and polishing operations are labor intensive, and still need to be done to the Badger barrels also. I think a lot of the members here are like me, and would enjoy doing the simpler labor intensive operations themselves. Of course the 'smith could do them as well.

As I understand it, Badger's edge is that the rifling process is done on CNC machines as well as the profile. This means that after the program is proven, the remainder of the barrels have a lot less labor in them.

By the way, I'm guessing on the price per barrel. I think the Stallmans are in Australia about now, so I can't ask. I know they are interested in defining a big-bore profile for .375-.458, I added the .510 on my own hook. I figure if we can show enough consensus we can help them define it the way we want it!

Boltgun,

You have a good point about the front sight. I'd rather have the sight base integral, as soldering the front sight on inevitably distorts the barrel at the muzzle where it counts a lot. At least it might not walk from heating as bad as soldering furniture on further back. Why don't we keep track of all the votes and see if we can get a consensus? I wouldn't sneeze at a 23 inch barrel, or a 25 inch one! What would you prefer on diameters, etc?

Don

The best source I have found to do this is Lothar Walther at $1200. for one such barrel..They do a very good job in any caliber.

I'm still satisfied with screw and solder, like on the Holland and Holland, (due to costs) It has proved satisfactory. I have never had one problem and it cuts the cost by half and gives a better market, but no doubt the solid barrel is better IF done properly.

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Don,
I know you weren't being critical. It's been a long week.
I have all the drawings done.

Ray,
I think that as far as affordability an quality is concerned, you are correct. Woody Woodall puts an enormous amount of effort into their work and their output. I for one would love to see their factory in Georgia.
Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Tompkins (edited 06-30-2001).]

Don,
Somewhere in the .720 to .750 range at 23".Walther may be a good source also, as Ray mentioned. I live within 3 hours of the Walther plant.I have seen their barrels on a number of sniper rifles. I have never heard of a bad experience with one. On the front sight issue, I don't beleive that it would be very hard to change the CNC program as to where the front sight is located as long as the other items remain the same. Walther may already have this program available, since almost everyone has a certain barrel length that they prefer. Keep me posted on what you come up with.
Todd

Ray and Boltgun,

I will add Lothar Walther into the mix. I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression that they were not much interested even in adding new chamber reamers to their list. In other words, I thought L-Ws forte was good mass-production runs, vice Badger small semi-custom (dozens), vice Cutrifle true custom barrels.

I will have to ask about changing the barrel length and moving the front sight. I was under the impression from talking with Gerri that changing anything at all on the outer profile was expensive. Since the barrel is tapered I think it is not a simple matter of changing one number.

We haven't heard from any of the .5xx caliber folks. I wonder what muzzle diameter it would take to handle .50 caliber? What about .585? I bet they'd want .900 inch muzzle!

Don

Boltgun,
I'm not a gunsmith,but being an nc machine operator and programmer I can confirm what you are thinking,it is not all that bad to make such minor changes as the frontsightbase etc.
One or two hours of programming can do miracles,once the machine is tooled up and the workpiece properly clamped.And I believe labourcost is not 100 Dollar an hour even in the States,or am I mistaken? In that case I will move.
Don,
I think it is an interesting plan.
Hugh.

Hugh,

Glad to have you around! Welcome to Saeed's House.

It sounds simple to me, but I don't have to do it, or pay for any mistakes!

I think that most CNC owner/operators are not good programmers of same. Once they get a working recipe they like to just crank them out. If you think of it, any mistake on a barrel profile usually means it's an expensive piece of scrap.

Don

Hey Don,
I am getting my barrel from Woody in GA for my .510". I sent in my CZ-550 to the same gunsmith Ron uses.
Side note: I haven't gotten back to you on the .416 cast bullets because of this, sorry.
The blanks tubes from L-W run 1.2" in diameter. I am thinking of getting mine 1.2" at the chamber end for 3" and then down to 1" the rest of the length (except for the last inch or so ramp it back to 1.2" for the MB to have a shoulder to square up on). This will add to the weight of the gun, but so what, it will have less recoil then.
Also, when the gunsmith removes the barrel, I am having him send it to Woody in GA. Woody will get all the measurments of it and then tool up to accomidate that thread for all the CZ-550's so they can be ready to screw on & headspace. I've dealt with Woody before and he has always been helpful and profesional. That shows a lot about the commitment of a good company to their customers, at least to me. Also, if I ever get this .510 barrel/CZ-550/de-milled bullets/feed from mag round worked out, I'll probably send him the reemer if he wants to use it for a while.

BMG,

Is that a stove pipe or a rifle barrel? Wow!

What does a custom barrel cost from L-W?

Is the 1.2" barrel blank the biggest they work with? That would be bad news for getting the integral hardware.

Don't worry about the cast bullets. I shot up the last of my 500, and didn't want to wait 12 weeks for more. I ordered some 350 gr. Speers instead.

Don

Being new to big bores, is there a list of big bore gun smiths anywhere in this forum? These calibers require highly specialized tooling, feeding, throating, and barrel profiles. I would be reluctant to pay for any learning curve. Smiths invested in their well practiced skills should be rewarded and customers might realize pricing and performance benefits as this thread discusses.

quote:

---

Originally posted by BMG:
Hey Don,
I am getting my barrel from Woody in GA for my .510". I sent in my CZ-550 to the same gunsmith Ron uses.
Side note: I haven't gotten back to you on the .416 cast bullets because of this, sorry.
The blanks tubes from L-W run 1.2" in diameter. I am thinking of getting mine 1.2" at the chamber end for 3" and then down to 1" the rest of the length (except for the last inch or so ramp it back to 1.2" for the MB to have a shoulder to square up on). This will add to the weight of the gun, but so what, it will have less recoil then.
Also, when the gunsmith removes the barrel, I am having him send it to Woody in GA. Woody will get all the measurments of it and then tool up to accomidate that thread for all the CZ-550's so they can be ready to screw on & headspace. I've dealt with Woody before and he has always been helpful and profesional. That shows a lot about the commitment of a good company to their customers, at least to me. Also, if I ever get this .510 barrel/CZ-550/de-milled bullets/feed from mag round worked out, I'll probably send him the reemer if he wants to use it for a while.

---

Don G,

Regarding the .510 guys. I already have one and my wife would kill me if I got into this venture with you, but this would be what I would recommend for a .510. Since the Jeffery and Gibbs both have large case diameters I would recommend a shank diameter of 1.30" - 1.35" running straight for 3" then tapering down around 0.010" per inch resulting in a muzzle diameter around 0.850" - 0.780" depending upon barrel length. By the way, I will keep my eye on this post and if the price is reasonable I maybe interested in a barrel with only a 1/4 rib that is integral.

Todd G

Todd,

How do you get by without a barrel lug on a .510??

Don

Don,

Allow me to correct myself. I would be in be un for a barrel with a integral 1/4 rib and recoil lug. To answer your question I do not get by without a barrel lug...it is soldered on.

Todd G

From another one of the ".510 guys"...

Todd - That is similar to what I arrived at for my .50 Alaskan barrel profile (see earlier topic posting). I like a barrel that is closer to the 1.4" front ring diameter than a 1.25" barrel offers. I had a tapered scalloped octagon blank cut on a 1.75" D .510" blank, leaving a "lump" on the top three flats for an integral rib, by stopping the mill cutter 12" from the breech end of the barrel. I also had about 3" left full diameter on the other 5 flats and subsequently had these milled to a 1.360" D to further define the rib. I wrote a Windows program (I'm a SW developer) to analyze the geometries involved with the various profiles and also to better determine what the "scallop" transition would look like. I spec'ed a muzzle .810" across the flats at 24.5" long. From my earlier posting ".510 barrel profile suggestions" I believe .790 to .815 was recommended for the .510" barrel muzzle diameter.

I also had the opportunity to examine and measure an original 11.2x72 Schuler with a full tapered oct to round, full integral rib barrel in a friend's collection. The rib on this sat under the front receiver ring diameter and the round muzzle diameter was .720" D.

In my case I wanted to be sure that I started with a heavy enough blank diameter to end up with a barrel rib that would sit proud of the front ring giving me enough for a nice rib/sight base and providing enough for an integral scope dovetail into the rib. I had Jim Wisner make me some special QR lever rings for this purpose.

I know that this is a fairly heavy barrel as well but that is what I wanted in this type of rifle, targeting 9.5 to 10.5 lbs finished weight. Time will tell if this is a workable solution! If I remember in talking with Bill Thompkins at the time he recommended something like 12 lbs finished weight for a 50 Alaskan on a Siamese mauser.

I didn't have metal retained for an integral barrel lug either but have planned to have one soldered & screwed in place. My gunsmith has no problem with doing this. I from the start wanted an octagon to round transition barrel ala Schuler and so decided to go with an add on front ramp...makes life a whole lot simpler. My gunsmith Dick Hart, is 70 years old this year and as such has done most everything, so I don't have any doubts that is will get done correctly.

I too might be interested in one of these "standards" if the correct bore is available... .475" (470 Mbogo) or .510" (.500 Jeffery/AHR).

Regards,
Jeff Pfeifer

I have the octagon barrel program that I have worked up. It runs on any Windows PC. I haven't looked at it in a while to see if it is really ready for use at the moment, but if I get enough requests for it, I suppose I could bring it to that point again. I think it's fairly easy to use but the geometries do get a bit involved. It has bitmaps for all the parameters so one could see what they are referring to. Eventually I'd like to add in the capability to integrate volumes to approximate the finished barrel mass - given alloy density, but just haven't made the time to do that.

All,

The reason that I suggested 10-1/2 to 12lbs. is very simple. We built a .50 Alaskan on a Ruger #1 with a 24" x .800 at the muzzle barrel. We started shooting 600+ grain lead gas checked bullets at moderate velocities. It was enough to literally rock your world. We added a one pound lead babbit to the front of the barrel to temporarily help out with the recoil.

I never developed an appreciation for that cartridge in that rifle. Instead, I much prefer the .510 Wells Express.

Bill

I cannot imagine shooting one lighter than at least 10.5 and thats way too light...

You guys are going to hurt yourself bigtime with thoes big bore rifles at thoes light weights, just like Mohmmed Allie, you shoot them enough and your brain won't take it..your eyes can disconnect and bursitas is a sure thing...and sorry to say the same for the 12 lb. guns..I have seen these things happen, and I know of one concussion, a detached retina ( I built that one ) all sorts of pain...I, personally have cronic bursitas and I can't hear squat, all from big bore rifles,not muzzle brakes...

You wanna play, you gonna pay!! thats my promise to you.

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Check out the barrel on H.A., African Hunting. It's all integral. Cost $1200.00

Butch, that seems to fit the bill! What are the particulars as to length, diameters etc?

Don

Will it fit an Rugger #1... sans the recoil lug?

Bill & Ray,
I appreciate your advice...on target as usual. The two Alaskans are my next venture into the big bore realm, stepping up from the .45-70 and .50-110. My initial energy target with this rifle was 5000 fp. - a 500 grn bullet @ 2150 fps accomplishes this nicely. I've never had the desire to shoot the 600 grn heavies in this rifle. I was thinking a more reasonable load would use a 500 or 525 grn bullet max. So I had Mike Murray (ABW) make me some Kodiak 500 grn bullets for that reason...actually he had just made some and I was able to get him to re-punch a nice wide semi-pointed nose on them for better magazine feeding. This rifle may yet be over the 10.5 lb estimate as well, as the piece of walnut I have is a nice hard dense piece of Am Blk.... but that IS a bit of weight to tote around. One of my very "buff" hunting buddies used to tote around a 13 lb M1A with bipods and scope, during hunting season. My practice has always been to develop handloads and work up to something suitable for the task at hand.

Bill - I'd like to hear more about the 510 Wells Express...What case is that built on and how does the case volume compare to other 50 cal cartrdges - ie. the 50 AK, 500 Jeffery, 500 NE? There is a very noticable difference in recoil in the .50-110 I've shot, just in the propellant selection due to the propellant burn profiles - 3031 being quite a pain but slower powders not so bad at all. Curious to learn what there is that might make this more pleasant to shoot?

Jeff,

The .510 Wells Express is the .460 WBY necked up to .510 and fireformed. It is similar to the .500 A Square and several others. We have shot 440 grain Woodleigh's up to some custom 600 grainers. My son shot the 440 Woodleighs when he was 15 and 6 feet at 135 pounds. He thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. He kept asking for another cartridge so when I ran out of the 440's I gave him one of the custom 600's without saying anything. His form was good and I certainly wouldn't allow him to be hurt, but the look on his face after he fired that round was absolutely priceless. He took three giant steps backwards but held onto the rifle. He very quietly handed me the rifle then punched me in the arm with the requisite "thanks a lot Dad!" We still joke about it.

It is a terrific cartridge with good statistics and can be handled in a balanced 12 pound rifle. I honestly think that a correctly measured wood stock works better that the fiberglass ones, but we did do several in the McMillan Express stock and they were fine.

Bill

Yes!!!
The 510 Wells Express is what started the the .510/460 clones. Or did John Buhmiller do it first?
I agree with Bill Tompkins recommendations on 12 pound gun weight. Wood is nice too, but the McMillan stock I have is the cat's meow on my Brno 510 JAB.

600 grainers at near 2500 fps and 750 grainers at near 2200 fps are a hoot! 1/2 MOA is possible with good bullets. I like a 1 in 10 twist barrel and the Hornady A-Max 750 grainers at 2150 fps for long range big bore plinking.

------------------
Good huntin' and shootin',
RAB

Bill & RAB,
Thanks for the info on the .510 Wells. I know that I have runn across this one before somewhere. The other one that I seem to recall is a 5xx Mills(?). My friend with with the .50-110 is a cast bullet guy like myself and somewhere along the line picked up a .512" 700grn paper patched bullet mold for this bugger. It is a whopper, the bullets don't cool for an hour or so as they have so much thermal mass!...learned the hard way on that one!

I guess my only complaint about this case would be the belt as I have an aversion towards these!... but then again what ground do I have to stand on with the Alaskans and their rims! Initially I just thought it would be neat to have a nice CRF higher pressure handling action for something like the .50-110 and the 50 Alaskan on a Siamese came to mind!...same parent case dimensions w/ the exception being the case length. I'll talk to my gunsmith and see where he thinks the final weight will end up on this 50 AK. I don't think 12 lbs would be hard to acheive with this stock. He is planning on making this one up by hand fitting it to me. He is 70 years old and does things the right way...Just takes time.

I have some other questions along these lines so I will start another topic...as I belive I am derailing DonG's oringinal topic which I would like to see come to some further conclusions - sorry DonG! Let's keep this barrel discussion pushing forward...

Jeff Pfeifer

Jeff,
Don't worry about it, I can already see it is headed nowhere. I guess that's why they're called custom guns.
Don

Any more people willing to help define a profile? I am astonished that this does not stir more interest!

Maybe Boltgun is right and we should leave the front sight mount off. Then at least the barrel length would be independantly selectable.

How far from the front of the action should the sling swivel be mounted?

Don

Don,

Would it help if I sent a xerox of a drawing approximately 24 x 36?

Bill

All,

Bill has offered to give me a cut rifled 416 barrel with integral quarter rib and lug. This is one of the barrels done for the SCI Show special offer - it is thus a "normal production" barrel using their standard methods, not a cherry picked ringer like most of the big rifle manufacturers would send to one of the well-known gun rag writers.

The barrel profile was machined by Bill and rifled by Dan Pedersen of Cutrifle. Bill is letting me "do what I will" with this barrel - no strings, no promises.

I am paying normal price for all the remaining gunsmithing, furniture, etc on this barrel, by a smith of my choosing.

I intend to have the barrel installed on my M70 Classic 416Rem by John Ricks. I know John will do his normal "best effort" job, which by reputation is very good indeed. At first he will not install a barrel band or front sight. The barrel is blank other than the profile. It needs to be threaded, chambered, cut and crowned etc. as does any other barrel.

The barrel will be tested for accuracy from cold start in three round groups, each group to be fired without allowing any extra cooling time.

John usually tests his barrels for accuracy himself, posting some impressive groups on traditionally built Pac-Nor button-rifled barrels with furniture both soldered and screwed on. We have not worked out the details enough for me to know if John will do accuracy tests on this barrel as well as I - or if it will just be me. I will encourage John to post his observations here (and anywhere else he pleases), but he is free to do it or not, as I can't afford to pay extra for "expert testimony" or special testing.

Since I was going to bed the rifle myself it may be difficult for John to test it, but we'll work out something.

I (or John) will add the barrel band and front sight base later, after testing the barrel as profiled and as my wallet allows.

Don

Bill,

What did you draw it on? I will check the formats I can handle at work. I know our MEs have several different packages that can accept standard input file formats, but I forget the extensions.

24x36 is too big for me to scan and post, but if I can get it into a computer I can probably figure out how to do it.

What's your opinion on how easy it is to change barrel lengths with an integral front sight base? Did you write your own program for the barrels you have done?

Don

Don,

You lucky dog!

As far as the barrel profile, I just don't think you can have a single profile that will make the 416, 458, 475, 510 and 577 guys happy. I'll e-mail you the picture John sent me of some Ruger #1 458 take offs on an M70 and a 98 mauser. While I think the profile is ok for a 458, 475 and 510, it is borderline too thick for the 458, and definately too thick for a 416. I would also think a tad more meat would be wanted for a 577.

Asside from that, it would be great to have reasonably priced integral barrels available. I was fortunate to pick up the Ruger #1 take offs, as the barrel w/ the barrelband attachments, and the quarter rib cost me 1/2 the price of a plain tapered barrel.

Pfeifer,

If you want a non belted 50, then look into a 500 Jeffrey or 500 AHR. If you plan to shoot much cast bullets, I'd give the 500 AHR the nod, with the longer neck, and brass 1/2 the price of the Jeffrey. Then again, one could just have a long magazene built for the Jeffrey, and load the bullets long, which I'll be doing. NEI makes a 680 gr 50 bullet with a decent meplat and a gas check design, I just may get one in the future.

Paul,

Yep, I can hardly believe my luck! I'm so broke I can hardly afford pay attention, or shoot the 416, much less rebarrel it.

You are pretty lucky, too. I have never found a take-off in anything bigger than .338! Getting one with all the furniture is a real savings.

I've been busy looking up the remaining bits. NECG Masterpiece front site base $58, hood $12.50, tricky folding night site front blade $40, express rear $77. Barrel band swivel $47. That's $234.50 plus shipping if I do it myself!

I figure to leave all this furniture off at first, then add it after the initial testing and as the budget allows.

I will take pictures to post, and John said he will, too.

I'm like a kid at Christmas!

Don

Paul H,
I do really like that 500 AHR too...as you and I have already had this discussion before :-)) I have 4 - 500 AHR dummy rounds sitting at home. Just need to come up with more $$ to convert the P-14 or Rem Model 30 sitting at home. Did you ever get that Enfield conversion info rounded up?

Do you or anyone here know if AHR uses different bottom metal for their .500 AHR CZ-550 Magnum rifles? I'm thinking that Ed has the folks at CZ-UB do it right with a wider magazine box...but not sure.

The 50 and 450 Alaskans on a Siamese still have merit in my mind though and I will probably use it as a learning experience.

Alright guys (& gals?)...If you had a the nice .510" barrel (integral half rib scalloped octagon breech to round muzzle; 1.360" rnd breech section) I have with a 1 in 18" twist what would you build with it? :-) Uhh-oooohhh...I don't know if I want to hear this one! But sometimes pain is for good, my dad told me.

JP

Pfeifer,

The magazine box on my 500 AHR has 375 H&H stamped in it. Therefore, I believe Ed Plummer and company use the standard 375 H&H mag box with a modified follower. As a matter of fact the action used was originally a 375 H7H CZ550 Magnum. It appears that all AHR does is open up the bolt face, lap the lugs, and change magazine follower. They also do a good trigger job.

Todd G

A classy barrel deserves a classy round, seems like the 500 Jeffrey is the natural match in a bolt gun. I believe the original 500 Jeffrey's used a 1-18 twist, plenty for pushing 530's 2200 fps. Now I'm a sick one, and want to use bmg mil surp projectiles, so the 1-15 will be better suited for me.

I didn't look into the P-14 conversion info, will get to it one of these days. I'll be curious to see how mine works out after John Ricks is done with it. That way you can just sit on your barrel, and figure out how you want to go. The only real bummer with the jeffrey is the rediculously exspensive brass, and while Midway has reduced it to ~$4 a case, that is still steep. I plan to order some 500 AHR cases, and rebate the rims myself, and trim them down. Hmmm, seems like John is moving along on the 500, I might have to get some ordered from AHR one of these days.

The barrel is on the way from Bill to me! John Ricks is all lined up, and says he will accuracy test using 400 gr. Nosler Partitions, 400 gr. Hornady RN, 350 gr Speer MagTip. I may throw in a dozen of Gerard's GSCustom 380 gr. FN as well.

Like a kid at Christmas!

Don

Todd G,
Thanks for the info on the 500 AHR magazine box...That is interesting indeed!

This has been tempting wrt to that barrel of mine. It is 25.5" long at the moment. I will try to get some pictures here shortly as I'd like to take a couple of these along the way.

Paul H,
Sounds like you prefer the smaller rebated rim of the .500 Jeffery in the P-14? Any particular reason? I do like the idea of having a longer neck as well for cast bullets...but a classic is a classic!

Jeff Pfeifer