.500 A square with a 24 inch barrel. What is realistic max
velocities that one can attain with 570gr,600gr,647gr and 700gr bullets.
Im thinking 2500-2550 with 570-600gr bullets and 2300fps with 700gr bullets have seen loads listed for a .460 weatherby with 600gr bullets at 2450fps
and 550gr pushing 2500fps. Hopefully the brass will last 4 or 5 loads at these levels. I seen the loads on the site here 2600fps@600gr 26inch barrel
using a long drop tube. Any owners input will be appreciated.

I have a .500 A-Square with a 22" barrel and get 2500 fps with 570 gr Barnes TSX or Solids and Ramshot TAC. My rifle is based on a CZ 550 and has been throated for BMG bullets but I haven't really worked up any loads for them. With the Barnes 570's, I crimp on the second cannelure ring, which gives me a little extra powder space and I still have a little wiggle room in the mag box. My cases are trimmed to 2.890" and are from Jamison. I have no pressure issues and am sure I could get 2550 or more but don't see the need. Given equal pressures and the .500 A2 will push a 570 gr about as fast as a .460 Wby with 500 grainers.

The .500 A2 is a great cartridge and it has power to spare. I'm sure you'll find a load that meets your requirements without pushing it to the brink. H4895 and IMR 4064 work well but I've settled on TAC and 570 gr Barnes bullets as my "go to" load. TAC meters well and has about the same burn rate as H4895. I hope this helps and good luck!

really? within pressure?
570gr 2600 max
600gr - 2550
700gr? i wouldn't even try pass 2300...

but, to be within reason for the shooter??
2150 is more than enough for all these bullet weights, and, frankly, at their design impact speeds

my 500 accrel will get 2300 with 570s, and the brass lasts -- about the same case capacity as the 495 a^2

one can get, with the same case design, approx 1/4 of the percentage change in case capacity gain in velocity .. at the same pressure...

but,max loads will also depend on brass -- you can get higher vels from good brass, assuming brass life matters -- norma/bell -- REALLY good .. bertram, you'll lose at least 150 fps

thanks for taking the time to reply.
Would Jamison .460 Weatherby basic brass be as strong or stronger than
Norma/Weatherby brass?

Jamison, now Captech International, brass is as good as any IMHO.
I use their .338 Lop'wah Magnum basic to make wildcats, no headstamp.
I use their .505 Gibbs and .408 Chey-Tac brass for their intended, properly headstamped purposes.
It's all good.
I have always just used the Norma-made 460 WbyMag brass for my 500 A2.

Allowable MAP for the 500A2 is 63,860 psi.

If you get over 2500 fps with a 600-grainer you are "pushing the envelope."
Hurts my shoulder when I do that.
Caused a funny-bone-shocking-sensation from my shoulder to my right hand,
one time when I got too relaxed with that load.
Do your pushups before trying that.


For slow (2150 fps) and sub-0.2-MOA fun loads use the 4350 powders with 700 to 750-grain target bullets.
You will easily find a good load.
Start with 100 grains
of H4350, AA-4350, or IMR-4350
and work up to 2150 fps, somewhere around 110 to 115 grains.

With faster powders and lighter bullets, most of the good loads are going to be in that range of charge: 110 to 115 grains

A 50 Peacekeeper claim of 2300 fps in a 23" barrel with 750-grainer is suspect.
Absolutely no difference between that one and the 500A2.

The standard 500A2 throat will handle any 50 BMG milsurp or fancy target bullet.
You just may not be able to use a COL of 5.000" unless you get a longer throat.

Rip
.

quote:

Originally posted by RLD:
thanks for taking the time to reply.
Would Jamison .460 Weatherby basic brass be as strong or stronger than
Norma/Weatherby brass?

I'm not sure if one is better than the other. I've only used Jamison in my .500 A2. I got 200 pcs with head stamp and 100 pcs .460 basic and don't feel a need to look elsewhere due to the high quality I've gotten from them. However, in my .375 & .300 Wby the Norma brass has also given excellent results.

I was unable to load the BMG Hornady 750 gr A max, 647 gr Barnes, or any of the various Military BMG bullets my gunsmith had laying around in my A2 without additional throating. I guess they can be seated deeper but I wanted to be able to seat them normally or even seat them out some. I intend to load up on IMR 4350 and send some down range this spring.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Jamison, now Captech International, brass is as good as any IMHO.
I use their .338 Lop'wah Magnum basic to make wildcats, no headstamp.
I use their .505 Gibbs and .408 Chey-Tac brass for their intended, properly headstamped purposes.
It's all good.
I have always just used the Norma-made 460 WbyMag brass for my 500 A2.

Allowable MAP for the 500A2 is 63,860 psi.

If you get over 2500 fps with a 600-grainer you are "pushing the envelope."
Hurts my shoulder when I do that.
Caused a funny-bone-shocking-sensation from my shoulder to my right hand,
one time when I got too relaxed with that load.
Do your pushups before trying that.


For slow (2150 fps) and sub-0.2-MOA fun loads use the 4350 powders with 700 to 750-grain target bullets.
You will easily find a good load.
Start with 100 grains
of H4350, AA-4350, or IMR-4350
and work up to 2150 fps, somewhere around 110 to 115 grains.

With faster powders and lighter bullets, most of the good loads are going to be in that range of charge: 110 to 115 grains

A 50 Peacekeeper claim of 2300 fps in a 23" barrel with 750-grainer is suspect.
Absolutely no difference between that one and the 500A2.

The standard 500A2 throat will handle any 50 BMG milsurp or fancy target bullet.
You just may not be able to use a COL of 5.000" unless you get a longer throat.

Rip
.

Haha! I've gotten that same funny bone sensation when shooting mine! The big boys will sure wake you up if you fall asleep at the wheel!

quote:

Originally posted by RLD:
.500 A square with a 24 inch barrel. What is realistic max
velocities that one can attain with 570gr,600gr,647gr and 700gr bullets.
Im thinking 2500-2550 with 570-600gr bullets and 2300fps with 700gr bullets have seen loads listed for a .460 weatherby with 600gr bullets at 2450fps
and 550gr pushing 2500fps. Hopefully the brass will last 4 or 5 loads at these levels. I seen the loads on the site here 2600fps@600gr 26inch barrel
using a long drop tube. Any owners input will be appreciated.

What make is your rifle?

In my 23".500 A2 Hannibal, I've run 600 grain bullets up to about 2540 fps before I stopped.

That said, velocities under 2400 fps lack a nasty recoil "edge" that higher velocities generate, at least in my rifle. My normal practice loads run about 2325 fps.

Between 2,150 and 2,250 fps "makes a nice sandwich"....don't need any more than that.

I don't own a 500 a2. I am still trying to figure which big bore caliber would be right for me.
I had the a-square reloading manual 'any shot you want' And read about the 500 a2. I am glad some owners of the caliber posted
their experiences and advice in this thread.

Don't have an 500 A2, but have a 500 Jeffery. Got my Barnes 570g TSX up to 2510 fps. Didn't like it much, throttled back to a sedate 2300 fps.

CZ makes a nice 500 Jeffery.

quote:

Originally posted by RLD:
I don't own a 500 a2. I am still trying to figure which big bore caliber would be right for me.
I had the a-square reloading manual 'any shot you want' And read about the 500 a2. I am glad some owners of the caliber posted
their experiences and advice in this thread.

The .500 A2 is an affordable (for its class) rifle build. Jamison .460 basic brass is of very good quality and value and is readily attainable, as are other components. There is an excellent selection of bullets from about 300 gr to 800 gr bore riders and even heavier cast bullets. I find the recoil to be stiff but manageable. Full power loads have about all the recoil I want in field conditions where i may have to shoot in an awkward position and need followup shots.

The .500 A2 is a fantastic and surprisingly versatile cartridge. While it isn't the biggest thing around, I think it may be the best of the ultra-bores (to me that's all calibers bigger and more powerful than the .458 Lott). I can't imagine needing a larger and more powerful rifle for anything that walks now or maybe ever. Of course "need" has little to do with it and to prove that point my next rifle is likely to be a .600 Overkill. That said, My .500 A2 is 11 pounds with scope, sling, full mag and rounds in my butt stock cartridge carrier. The .600 will probably be a "stunt gun" that I sucker my friends into shooting and very rarely hunt with, but that's me.

If you are considering a powerful rifle that is affordable, with high quality components at a reasonable price, and one that everybody and his brother doesn't have, the .500 A2 is hard to beat. Power wise, while there are bigger cannons out there, I've never heard of anyone carrying a .500 A2 ( or any smokeless powder .50 cal rifle) saying they wish they had more gun. No one that's shot mine has afterwards called for the "real guns" to be brought out. The .500 A2 is serious business and significantly more rifle than most care to shoot. Whether you are gunning for elephants or water jugs and rocks, you'll be carrying the right rifle.

If you decide to buy one, I'll help any way I can.

My 20” 500 A2 will do just at 2500 with a 570 and around/under 2450 with a 600 depending on the bullet. I don’t load it much past 2200 with ether bullet and can attest to slamming elk, Black bears, feral cattle and water buffalo at 2200 you are in good company. I find the amount of velocity I get out of it amazing compared to my 23” 460 which is just at 2500 with a 500 gr bullet. Anyone with similar experience?

(i know it will look like a topic hijack)
after shooting, reloading, and building various big bores, and researching to determine what was effective and what was tolerable, i designed a series of cartridges -- and the most relevant for this conversation is the 500 AccRel -- you can load it up past the 500 jeffery factory loads, it's easier to fit into a standard action, uses less powder, therefore less recoil, and has the same shoulder as the 500 schuler/original 500 Jeffery as an homage

woodleigh is, arguably, a top resource for understanding bullet construction designed for purpose - and their dangerous game .510 bullets all have a window of impact speeds -- you can look it up yourself, btw, at http://www.woodleighbullets.co...itional/468-700-list

it's basically 2200-1700 for expanding bullets --

since a 50 is generally a stopping rifle, shots can take place at 25 feet and 300 yards (game on the run) -- with, just like in Texas, most shots occurring within 100 yards --

therefore, 2300 would be a top MV to fit these specs, maybe pushing 2400, to be at the top of, but within, the recommended window.


what happens when you are WAY above that impact speed? over-expansion on even fairly thin skinned game -- while it is IMPRESSIVE to see the results of a woodliegh 570 stop a charging boar at ~20 feet, with an mv of 2300, the penetration wasn't at all impressive ----

same can be said for the "same" bullet, though 750gr and .585, impacting at above 2300 --- didn't exit an eland from about 70 yards - through the shoulders -- retained weight was over 90%, btw -- maybe i can dig up pictures of that one ---

what's the point?

2150fps with a 50 bolt gun, at proper weight and fit, is actually fairly pleasant to shoot -- 2300 is, to me, bordering on unpleasant, and 2500 is just ugly --

I can't afford to be a safari hunter. However I think a safari rifle would be fun to own and thats why i'm here.
All the information is good. The more I know the better off I will be. I knew about the high velocity lower penetration issue. But its good to hear about real world hunting experiences with it. I also have read about the 2400fps zone with solids for elephants. If you go faster The bullet may not go in a straight line. If you go slower (not sure what the minimum velocity range is)it will not have enough velocity to fully penetrate. I'm not sure if thats right but from what I have read that seems to be case.
As far recoil tolerance I don't know how much I can handle. But it will be fun to find out. One day if I have extra disposable income I will have a .600 overkill,t-rex or other .585 built. Until then I will get something on the used market to get started.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
really? within pressure?
570gr 2600 max
600gr - 2550
700gr? i wouldn't even try pass 2300...

but, to be within reason for the shooter??
2150 is more than enough for all these bullet weights, and, frankly, at their design impact speeds

my 500 accrel will get 2300 with 570s, and the brass lasts -- about the same case capacity as the 495 a^2

one can get, with the same case design, approx 1/4 of the percentage change in case capacity gain in velocity .. at the same pressure...

but,max loads will also depend on brass -- you can get higher vels from good brass, assuming brass life matters -- norma/bell -- REALLY good .. bertram, you'll lose at least 150 fps

Just doodling, it would seem that 2600fps is achievable within pressure for a 570gr in a 500A2. I remember that RIP pushed his beltless 500A2 (500Mbogo) to 2800-2850fps with a 450gnGSC, achieving over 8000ft# of muzzle energy. That seems a reasonable, safe threshold.
However, be warned: RIP loaded down to 2654fps when going on a safari several years ago. That is just about the bar where the rifle is tolerable, hunting-comfortable, and not distracting. After all, we need to hold on and shoot these rifles under safari conditions without a second thought.

For practical shooting, Jeffeoso is exactly right. His "little" 500 AccRelNyati can reach 7000ft# energy. I've safely shot 450gnGSC at 2650fps (102gn H322, s'if'n I recollect correctly). So it would seem to me that anyone wanting a 50-caliber hunting rifle needs to ask "what level is s/he willing to shoot day in and day out?" Personally, I think that anything between 6000-7000ft# muzzle energy is about tops as a manageable hunting round. So the 500AccRel is about the ideal capacity as a cartridge. Why burn extra powder in a cavernous case?

Now this gets practical and personal. I have about 1 month to get my loads decided before I pour 100 rounds and ferry over the pond. Do I want 2650fps, 2600fps, or 2500fps? I'm starting to think that 2500fps might not be so bad for the long haul. I'm creeping up on 70 and I suspect that at 70-75 years I may not want 2600-2650fps with a 450gnGSC to shoot an impala or hartebeest, and 2500 will be more than adequate for a buffalo.

PS: Quality Cartridge (and MidwayUSA) have 500 AccRel brass available currently and it is excellent quality for the above loads. Anyone so interested for building a 500 is advised to pick up 100 or so cases. Ruger Hawkeyes make fully adequate platforms for the 500AccRel. Easy build, easy carry, BIG BIG downrange THUMP. What's not to like?

My .500a2 built on a CZ550 but with a 26 inch barrel got 2610fps with a 570gr woodleigh! It’s very hard to beat a .500a2 in versatility and capability.one of my all time favorites.

Rob, you talked me into building one a few years back. Great cartridge that can be loaded for anything from deer to brontasaurus and can be built on a workin man's salary.

quote:

Originally posted by RLD:
I can't afford to be a safari hunter. However I think a safari rifle would be fun to own and thats why i'm here.
All the information is good. The more I know the better off I will be. I knew about the high velocity lower penetration issue. But its good to hear about real world hunting experiences with it. I also have read about the 2400fps zone with solids for elephants. If you go faster The bullet may not go in a straight line. If you go slower (not sure what the minimum velocity range is)it will not have enough velocity to fully penetrate. I'm not sure if thats right but from what I have read that seems to be case.
As far recoil tolerance I don't know how much I can handle. But it will be fun to find out. One day if I have extra disposable income I will have a .600 overkill,t-rex or other .585 built. Until then I will get something on the used market to get started.

The velocity vs penetration is mostly dependent on the bullet shape and integrity. You should contact Michael458 if you haven't already, about bullet performance. To say he is knowledgeable about the issue is a real understatement.

With a proper bullet and even a mid-range power load, I doubt you would have penetration issues with any of those calibers! Haha!

Even if we can't afford a $50000 hunt, we can still have fun shooting a big bore. A guy definitely needs a stopping rifle to defend the house against all those water jugs and rocks.

My .500a2 went to Africa and terminated everything from baboons to buff. It provided dramatically better one shot stops on everything I hit as compared to my 416 Rigby which was impressive and obvious! The ability to just expand 460 wby cases to .50 and fireform with 570 gr woodleighs is a huge advantage over other cartridges with hard to find brass. No one really needs more than a .500a2 until
We really do clone T-Rex’s for hunting!

I have a Ruger No.1 500A2 that I won't be re-barreling.
It has a 27" barrel and is very accurate.
"From my cold dead fingers ..."







The best info I have seen in the last 21 years on this subject is shown below.
Consider the .500 A-Square as identical to the .50 Peacekeeper:









Rip
.