Hi all, I am definitely not trying to start a religioius war here, but of the folks that have real world experience with the Barnes 570g TSX, 570g Banded solids, and Woodleigh 600g softs and and solids on Alaskan Brown Bear and Cape Buffalo. What are your recommendations and why? DWG (Dangerous Water Jugs) and DWN (Dangerous Wet Newspapers) don't count lol.

I'm planning to load 535g Woodleigh soft points to 2150 fps just for the local game (deer, elk, and black bear), but eventually want to work up to a load for what the rifle is meant for. I plan to load the either 570g Barnes or 600g Woodleighs to around 2150 fps. I figure that should be more than enough on both ends.

Regards,

Chuck

G'Day Chuck
I currently have,shoot and love a .500 jeff custom built on a mauser 98 action here in Aussie and I have only ever used woodleigh 535grn solids,softs and protected points(l like them the best).I can't tell you what the others are like but i can tell you that they kill cape buff really well.Others may say differently and that the softs can loose a lot of shape and weight but they knocked my two buff's down no worries. As for the loss of weight i don't give a shit because the buff are dead, not making more than twenty feet after the shots!!!! I reload all my ammo and don't shoot them over 2150fps I don't see the need to try and drive them to hard, makes no difference really on the game to my seeing. I also have a couple of mates with the same rifle who tried the 600grn bullets and didn't acheive anything the 535's couldn't with less recoil I might add(not that its a problem it is a big gun) hope this is of some help and enjoy the fantastic calibre

CHuck
You will think the 500 jeffe with a 535 at 2150 is "easy" to shoot .. SERIOUSLY, that's inline with cast loads in a lott, or a ticked off 458 winmag level of recoil. and a 600gr at 2150 IN A WELL FITTING STOCK isn't much more. You are going to be stunned at how easy that is to shoot, as when I built and fired my first 500 jeffe, I was prepared for it to tear my arm off.. as Neal says "bang -- that was fun, lets do it again"

I am a fan of the 600gr woodleigh protected point bullet .. and I am chomping at the bit for the hornady .510 DGX/S bullets to come out later this year.

Here's something to ALWAYS keep in mind -- the 500 Jeffe is LARGER than a 510 wells in case capacity ... you are barely at idle for 2150.. in fact, its hard to stay under 2400 fps and keep a pretty full case

Something to consider. Recoil is reduced but efficiency is not.

quote:

These two bullets were used for texas heart shots on previously wounded Buffalo. Both penetrated the entire length of the animals and were found just under the skin of their chests. The one on the left hit and broke the spine (the animal was running downhill) and the one on the right hit below the tail/spine. ...... pretty neat huh! - Steve "Shakari" Robinson - www.kuduland.com October 2006.

500-grain or 540-grain FNs instead of 570-grain GSC FN?
And what was the weight of that cute little HV in .510 caliber? 450-grainer?

Got a 1:9" 500 Mbogo No.2 in the works.
It will handle even the stubbies inside of 500 yards range.

But, I still think the 570-grain weight is tops in .510 caliber.
Hence I will probably be trying those Barnes TSX bullets of that weight for varmints and such ... as well as the 450-grain HV and 570-grain FN for serious business.

Thanks all, I'm looking forward to shooting my 500 Jeffery real soon. Thanks again for all of the great advice. I love this forum.



Chuck

Chuck:

Barnes 570 grain TSX bullets and banded solids were designed for the .500 NE, not the .500 Jeffery. The crimping groove is not in the right place for the .500 Jeffery. However, Barnes does make a 535 grain banded solid especially for the .500 Jeffery. I have some. They work great.

If you are bound and determined to shoot a bullet heavier than 535 grains, I would suggest you stick with the 600 grain Woodleighs that were specifically designed for the .500 Jeffery.

Dave

I prefer Woodleighs in my 12.5x70 Schuler. I use both 535 and 600 gr. and prefer the 535 pushing the magic 2400 fps muzzle velocity.

Woodleigh recommended impact velocity is about 2300 fps.

P.S. I think jeffeosso's comment "Here's something to ALWAYS keep in mind -- the 500 Jeffe is LARGER than a 510 wells in case capacity ... you are barely at idle for 2150.. in fact, its hard to stay under 2400 fps and keep a pretty full case" is very important. A reduced load hang-fire is devastating, possibly worse that an overcharge due to pressure curve.

Hi Dave, I'm not bound and determined at all. I'm just trying to figure out what my optons are. Also I have two reloading manuals (Barnes Manual No. 4, and "Any Shot You Want" with load data for 570g bullets (and Barnes has load data for their 535g Banded solid as well) and none for the 535g Woodleighs which is kind of strange. If someone has a load for the 535g Woodleighs to get them going around 2150 fps with good load density (95% or higher), I'd really appreciate it. I have emailed Geoff MacDonald at Woodleigh, but he hasn't gotten back to me yet (hopefully he's out hunting ).


Once again thanks much for your help everyone.

Regards,

Chuck

Chuck:

Here is some information that was provided to me buy Johan Loubser at Western Powder:

Dave,
We suggest the following guidelines.
Caliber: .500 Jeffery - Rimless.
Barrel length: 24”
Reduced loads:
Powder: Accurate – 5744.
Bullet weight: 575-600 grains.
Start load: 42.0 grains (1300 - 1400 ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 68.0 grains (1900 – 2000 Ft/p/sec).


Regards
Johan Loubser
Ballistician
Ramshot/Accurate Powders
Tel: (406) 234 04 22 email: johan@ramshot.com
Western Powders Inc -- Miles City – Montana.

To the best of my knowledge, Accurate 5744 is not "position sensitive" that is you will not need a filler in the case but I would strongly suggest that you CALL JOHAN PERSONALLY AND TALK TO HIM ABOUT THIS BEFORE YOU LOAD THEM UP AND SHOOT THEM and I am not sure these loads will be appropriate with the Barnes bullets.

Dave

Thanks much Dave, I appreciate all of your help. I'll definitely call Johan before I load any cartridges. I'll let you know how things go once I get to the range. It may be a bit, the rifle's not here yet and it's snowing. If I hear from Woodleigh I'll post and PM you the data if you're interested.

Regards,

Chuck

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Chuck:

Here is some information that was provided to me buy Johan Loubser at Western Powder:

Dave,
We suggest the following guidelines.
Caliber: .500 Jeffery - Rimless.
Barrel length: 24”
Reduced loads:
Powder: Accurate – 5744.
Bullet weight: 575-600 grains.
Start load: 42.0 grains (1300 - 1400 ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 68.0 grains (1900 – 2000 Ft/p/sec).


Regards
Johan Loubser
Ballistician
Ramshot/Accurate Powders
Tel: (406) 234 04 22 email: johan@ramshot.com
Western Powders Inc -- Miles City – Montana.

To the best of my knowledge, Accurate 5744 is not "position sensitive" that is you will not need a filler in the case but I would strongly suggest that you CALL JOHAN PERSONALLY AND TALK TO HIM ABOUT THIS BEFORE YOU LOAD THEM UP AND SHOOT THEM and I am not sure these loads will be appropriate with the Barnes bullets.

Dave

Any info for the XMP5744 and lighter bullets or cast bullets in the 500 Jeff? I have a bunch of that powder I bought for shooting cast loads in my 470...then sold the 470. Are the loads above for cast or jacketed bullets? Thanks.

In Terry Wieland's Dangerous-Game Rifle book, there is an section on calculating (Appendix two) 5744 loads for cast bullet loads.

I've used this with success in my 470 (480-500 grn) and 500 (570grn-600) using Hard Cast GC slugs.

Once done shooting your cast, I finish up the practice session with 4-6 full power loads and you're good to go.

hth

Thanks lamgene, I have Terry's book. I'll definitely look it up.

Chuck

Chuck, when is your greatly anticipated 500 Jeffery supposed to arrive? We want pics!

I'm not sure, but soon. I got an email from Harlan with a bill saying it would most likely be done by the time my check arrived. I sent the check out Monday, so I'm hoping it arrives next week. My bullets and brass should come in next week too. Then look out water jugs! lol



Chuck

I have 115grains of AR2209 behind my 535grn woodleighs I know you have these aussie powders in the state but under a different name I beleive ? sorry i just don't know what that name is

quote:

Originally posted by zhaba:
I have 115grains of AR2209 behind my 535grn woodleighs I know you have these aussie powders in the state but under a different name I beleive ? sorry i just don't know what that name is

HOGDON H-4350

Chuck,

Start off with 110gr of IMR4350 for an ~ 2150 fps load with those 535gr Woodleighs. This should be a mild pressure load with adequate case fill. You can work up from there at a later date for more velocity (I would guess that you will find something like 120gr of IMR4350 to be your hunting load if you like 2300 fps+). Make sure you HEAVILY crimp your bullets and use CCI250 or Fed 215 primers.

Just my $.02, and enjoy that new cannon of yours when you get it.

Happy Easter!

Chuck:

I have used Accurate 5744 for some reduced loads in my .500 Jeffery. However, after shooting it a while, I just decided I didn't need to shoot the reduced loads. It is indeed a handful from the bench so sighting in a scope is a task. However, shooting from a standing position is not difficult.

I have a CZ also. Mine has a laminated stock and I put a Leupold Ultralight 2.5 fixed power scope on it because that particular scope is almost recoil proof. The scope is mounted in Talley QD rings which probably added a bit more than a pound to the rifle.

My starting load (which came from AR reloading pages) was a Horneber case, Federal 215 Magnum primer, 110 grains of Reloder 15 with a 535 grain Woodleigh RNSP. Pressures are very modest. If I recall, that load was running about 2260 fps. in my rifle. My son used that combination just a couple of weeks ago to shot a bison. It was a broadside heart shot and penetration was complete. The bison only went a few yards.

The NEW Jamison brass (third edition) is top notch and built to spec. It works well in my rifle.

When you get your rifle, if you need any help, PM me.

Dave

be VERY careful with low capacity using loads.. 4350 at the even charge weight is right at 81% ... which MAY give you hangfires. Use federal 215!

Thanks Jeffesso and Dave. I will be very careful. I plan to load at the bottom end of the recommended loads as Dave suggests, 110g of RL 15 with the 535g Woodleigh. I need to shoot the Woodleighs for barrel break in. I do plan to move up to the 570g Barnes TSX and solids as my standard DG load at about 2150 to 2300 fps. I have load data in the Barnes manual which is nice. If I can't get crimping groove for the TSXs and banded solids in the right place due to cartridge OAL limitations, I'll have my chamber's throat reamed out a tad to accomodate it. The CZ's magazine is definitely not the limiting factor.

First things first though, I plan to shoot the 535g Woodleighs for a while.

I've been corresponding a bit with Phil Shoemaker on the 24hourcampfire forum who uses a .510 Gibbs for a brown bear stopping rifle. He switched over to the 570g TSX from the 535g Woodleigh based on some real world charging experience, and after all that's what the 500 Jeffery is for. This should be an adventure even before I go hunting lol

Regards, and as always thanks for the advice

Chuck

Chuck:

Just bear in mind that in its' original guise, the .500 Jeffery was NEVER loaded with 570-600 grain bullets. Here are the specs:

.500 Jeffery

S.A.E. (in.)
Metric (mm.)

SPECIFICATIONS
Bullet Diameter:
.510 in.
Max Overall Length:
3.500 in.
Rifling Twist:
1-in-1.15 in.
Rifling Lands:
6 
Case Capacity (avg):
160.0 gr. water
Primer Size:
.210 
 
NOMINAL PERFORMANCE
Bullet Weight:
535 gr.
Muzzle Velocity:
2400 f.p.s.
Muzzle Energy:
6800 ft-lbs.

Note that even with the 535 grain bullets, if you load it to 2400 fps, it is packing 6800 ft-lbs of energy! Imagine what it would do with a good solid. I guess the only time I would consider the 600 grain Woodleigh is if I were specifically after an elephant. Then, it makes some sense. Otherwise, the heavier bullets just increase recoil....

Your on the right track Try the 535s first, maybe pick up some 600 grain Woodleighs to try before you go putting a longer throat in the rifle.

Dave

I am not sure why many insist on using bullet weights that are heavier than the original cartridge was designed for. We have bullets now that are much better in construction and design so they will perform even better than the originals. How about a 900gr, .510 bullet. That surely will be much better than a 535gr Woodleigh or even a GS custom. JUST KIDDING!

Actually I've never used Barnes bullets. In my 270 Noslers and A-Frames, and in my 375 H&H A-Frames and 350g Woodleighs seem like the right choices. I know Saeed swears by the mono bullets, but if you always hit them in the brain, bullet choice is a little easier lol.

So I'll start with the 535g Woodleighs and then see if the Barnes work without any mods. I still have a couple of years before I can even begin scheduling an Alaska or Africa trip.

Regards all,

Chuck

Chuck, I have used the big Woodleighs, but I prefer and have settled on the Barnes 570 grain TSX and the Barnes 570 grain Banded Solid as the "go to" bullets in my .500 A-Square.

I load them to 2,500 fps. They work. You should be able to come close to that velocity, or, if you wish, maybe even exceed it, in your .500 Jeffery.

Check out the recovered bullet photos in this thread to see how they performed for me on cape buffalo and elephant last year.

Tanzania 2008 Hunt Report

I also killed a hippo with a couple of 570 grain TSX bullets to the brain as he stood on the opposite side of a narrow korongo about 35 yards away. We did not recover those bullets. Hippo are big!

Thaks much MR. What an amazing safari, maybe my sons don't need to go to college lol. I was thinking of loading the Barnes to a leisurely 2150 fps myself duplicating the 500 NE ballistics. Phil Shoemaker swears by them now for Alaskan brownies at very close range frontal shots as well.

Regards,

Chuck

Chuck, 2,150 should be fine, too, since the bullets were designed to perform at .500 Nitro Express velocities. They are versatile.

What I love about the Barnes bullets is that they are so tough that they will still perform perfectly at 2,500 fps.

That is definitely not true of the Woodleighs. The Woodleighs are good to .500 NE speeds (and I killed a bull elephant with a 600 grain Woodleigh solid at about 2,300 fps from my .500A2) but I would not use the Woodleigh softs at much more than 2,200 fps or the solids at much more than 2,300.