I like a traditional Express V rear and bead front sights but have been shooting some air rifles with the kids that have fiber optic sights and they are so much easier to pick up. Maybe I am just getting old.

I did a search and see that some like the fiber optic front bead but did not see many that voted FO for the rear sight.

When I was at DSC I spent some time in the NECG booth and he recommended the skeletonized rear sight with the fiber optic insert.

This one:



Has anyone used that on a big bore? Or has anyone modified an adjustable read like the Masterpiece to take a fiber insert?

Maybe I just have too much time on my hands and should start cleaning out my study or sharpening knives, but I was thinking about having H&H-style banded front sights with flip-up night beads put on a couple of my rifles. Maybe this would be better?

Do you carry a back-up bead in case the FO gets broken?

Gunbuilder D'Arcy Echols sometimes put those on his 458 Lott rifles and they seem to hold up but are high enough to pose a danger to migrating waterfowl and low flying satellites.
Plus my son describes using them as looking at a bad geometry problem.

The rear sight on my Chapuis 9,3x74R has 3 luminious inserts.
In the right light the 3 orange show up well and are quick to pick up. In bad or very low light you still see the rear blade.

I have shot a fair amount with the iron sights with this rifle and they work good.

My new Heym 26 B has an reddish/orange front bead and the rear sight has a lime green fiberoptic center line. I have not shot any game with it yet, but the one time I had it in the field I liked the way it looked. It showed up well on a couple of black pigs I aimed at, [15 yards] but I did not shoot them as they were only around 80 lbs or so.

Thanks for the info gentlemen.

We have used them. The only problem is they are not adjustable for elevation and can't be filed in. You must use an adjustable front bead like the NECG Universal Banded front sight.

quote:

Originally posted by Bitterroot:
We have used them. The only problem is they are not adjustable for elevation and can't be filed in. You must use an adjustable front bead like the NECG Universal Banded front sight.

That is indeed a drawback I saw. I wonder if you could do it as an insert to the Masterpiece rear sight? It would look a bit more normal too.

Probably cost too much to be practical, and there may not be enough meat to insert a piece there.

Thanks for the input.

I have straight up Williams Fire Sights on my 30-06.

My 375 H&H work in progress will have a Williams streamlined ramp with red F/O insert and the rear will be a Marbles #30 with green F/O inserts. Granted it is not the high dollar look but it will be functional.

Thanks. I was thinking I could just swap out the front bead and rear blade with FO and see if that works.

Charles,

I had a flip up night sight instaled on my double rifle. Save the trouble, it just doesn't add any utility, imo. For the double, I find that a bead filed at about a 30* angle, from lowest closest to breach, highest furthest from breach, will pick up enough light in almost every situation including shadows. Dark gloomy days and dark targets can be slow though.

For my 375H&H bolt, I use the NECG (Recknegel?) fibre optic beads and they work very well in conjunction with a windowed hood. The fibre optic beads look fragile and that is the main reason I stick with the hood. Its been mangled a few times, and the fibre optic has not, so either the fibre optic is tougher than it looks or the hood has done its job. Choose the same size fibre optic bead and it will look a heck of a lot bigger than the same size brass bead, especially compared to an unfiled bead. Maybe consider going down one size? I carry a spare fibre optic front bead for my 375 in the pistol grip cap trap of my double rifle. Never used it, don't even know if it and the spare for the double are still there. Ought to check, eh?

The only fibre optic rear sight that I have used had two green beads on either side of the V, and it was on a black powder rifle. In conjunction with the different colored front bead, it was easy to see and line up as I recall, but I use a scope on that rifle.

I've wondered if that skeletonized rear blade could be made to fit my double rifle. Kreighoff offers one for their doubles. Probably made by Recknegel too. But I wonder if it wouldn't fit a regular height rear island, like the Masterpiece, or 1/4 rib better. I think it would make seeing the target a whole lot easier, especially an elephant head.

Currently my double has a gold fill verticle line up the rear blade where the fibre optic insert is on the skeletonized sight you show. It works well in good light. Put the brass bead on top of the gold blade, quick and easy. So the fibre optic ought to be the same and better in low light.

JPK

Thanks for the info. I was thinking about the windowed hoods as well.

My .375 has a Williams rear sight and I think I can get a fiber optic insert for it. Might give that a try with a new front bead and see if I like it. Might be able to get the Recknagel blade in the same size as my .458 standing blade too (they are not all as high as the picture).

Let me know how it works out, please. I am going to have to try something, even over the last two years I've noticed real deterioration with my eyes. Still using 125 or 150 reading glasses, but all of the time now, instead of just smaller print in darker places. I figure I've got only a couple more years and it will be mandatory.

Thinking fibre optic front bead and ghost ring on my bolts and maybe the Recknegel/NECG/Kreighoff rear skeletonized fibre optic blade or even some sort of ghost ring on my doubles.

I'm not adverse to having something made or fitted, even if it violates the purists astetic senses, if it will keep me elephant hunting with open sights.

I'll let you know if I stumble on a solution or have an epiphany.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
Let me know how it works out, please. I am going to have to try something, even over the last two years I've noticed real deterioration with my eyes. Still using 125 or 150 reading glasses, but all of the time now, instead of just smaller print in darker places. I figure I've got only a couple more years and it will be mandatory.

Thinking fibre optic front bead and ghost ring on my bolts and maybe the Recknegel/NECG/Kreighoff rear skeletonized fibre optic blade or even some sort of ghost ring on my doubles.

I'm not adverse to having something made or fitted, even if it violates the purists astetic senses, if it will keep me elephant hunting with open sights.

I'll let you know if I stumble on a solution or have an epiphany.

JPK

Thanks. I have the same motivations. I have had trouble explaining to the eye doctor the kind of vision I need to hunt with open sights.

They also said installing younger eyes was not an option!

Charles, the best combo I have found, and the one I use on all of my big bores, is a fiber optic (or ivory) bead front, with a windowed hood, and an express rear blade with a wide gold centerline below the point of the "V".

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Charles, the best combo I have found, and the one I use on all of my big bores, is a fiber optic (or ivory) bead front, with a windowed hood, and an express rear blade with a wide gold centerline below the point of the "V".

Thanks. When I did a search I saw that you used the fiber optics, but only in the front. I have not tried the gold centerline yet for myself. Maybe it would help, although it seems the fiber optic might be brighter if it is rugged enough.

Charles,

I tried the optomitrist solution. It provided some limited help shooting the rifles, but a counter veiling reduction in overall eye sight.

I tried varible prescription contacts to provide better short range vision so I could better see the express sights. My full prescription in the center and less toward the edges. It worked a little bit, providing a sharper view of the rear sight, but I lost too much overal acuity and ditched them. the front sight isn't an issue. (yet?)

JPK

i made a set for my merkel 470 that embeded a green front and orange rear. all you do is to put the green light on top of the orange one and kaboom. works great for eyes that can't see the irons so well anymore

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
i made a set for my merkel 470 that embeded a green front and orange rear. all you do is to put the green light on top of the orange one and kaboom. works great for eyes that can't see the irons so well anymore

Thanks for the first-hand information. Since the doctor refused to give me younger eyes, this looks like a good possibility so long as I can convince myself that they will hold up.

I'm in the "I can't see my iron sights" boat with y'all. I am going to try a Burris "FastFire" on one of my doubles as an experiment. As for now, I can't find focus between the irons and the target.

Seems I've tried every magnifier trick available and they just don't work. I hope the "red dot" works. It would be a simple solution, before going to a scope.

quote:

I hope the "red dot" works. It would be a simple solution, before going to a scope.

I have an Eotech on a rifle and it has been described by friends who have shot the rifle as so easy compared to iron sights that it is like cheating.

I think what is most important is having an egraved mental picture of where things should be and not having to clearly see anything, including your sights.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I think what is most important is having an egraved mental picture of where things should be and not having to clearly see anything, including your sights.

zen and the big bore skidoo ballerina

I had a Heym Straight pull in 35 Whelen that had a red fiberoptic front sight and the rear had a vertical Lime fiberoptic insert in it. The unusual thing was that the rear sight blade was shaped like a pyramid. These were the quickest sights I have ever used. the rifle was built for shooting running boar in Germany. These were ERA sights with the rear being adjustable for windage and the front adjustable for elevation. Have never seen another rear with the Pyramid shape.

Very good Phil, most people have a hard time with theKISS theory!

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
Gunbuilder D'Arcy Echols sometimes put those on his 458 Lott rifles and they seem to hold up but are high enough to pose a danger to migrating waterfowl and low flying satellites.
Plus my son describes using them as looking at a bad geometry problem.

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
I had a Heym Straight pull in 35 Whelen that had a red fiberoptic front sight and the rear had a vertical Lime fiberoptic insert in it. The unusual thing was that the rear sight blade was shaped like a pyramid. These were the quickest sights I have ever used. the rifle was built for shooting running boar in Germany. These were ERA sights with the rear being adjustable for windage and the front adjustable for elevation. Have never seen another rear with the Pyramid shape.

I think NECG had that setup on a rifle in their booth at DSC. I remember the rear sight was definitely different.

quote:

Originally posted by Charles_Helm:

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Charles, the best combo I have found, and the one I use on all of my big bores, is a fiber optic (or ivory) bead front, with a windowed hood, and an express rear blade with a wide gold centerline below the point of the "V".

Thanks. When I did a search I saw that you used the fiber optics, but only in the front. I have not tried the gold centerline yet for myself. Maybe it would help, although it seems the fiber optic might be brighter if it is rugged enough.

I ended up with what I use because it works for me. (And I'm not a stickler for traditional materials.) The fiber optic front beads with windowed hoods are very bright. Ivory beads work well too, but ivory is not as bright as fiber optic.

The reason I have not tried the NECG rear sight with the fiber optic centerline inlaid in the sight blade is because of the adjustment problem noted above and because of the "gap" between the top of the centerline and the bead when the sights are lined up.

I have always had to file in my rear blade to suit my load of choice. And even if I didn't, I just don't like that "gap." I want the top of the centerline to run right up to the bottom-most point of the "V".

That way, even in poor light, you can line up the bead smack on top of the "post" and get off a shot pretty quickly.

Also, I have found that the gold centerline must be fairly wide and bold. As long as it is, I haven't had a problem seeing it clearly. A fiber optic centerline may be brighter, however. I have also heard that platinum centerlines are very bright.

If you do go with the fiber optic centerline in the rear sight blade, please let us know how it works out.

Rusty

The Red Dot will solve all your problems.

I have tested several and I like the Doctor Optic best overall, everything considered.

The dot looks "rounder, cleaner" to me over the Bufis Fast Fire. I have mounted a Burris Fast Fire on a Blaser BBF 308/20ga combo gun.

My 11 year old nephew killed 2 deer, a squirrel and a rabbit with it the first weekend he hunted with it.

Last week I shot it at 200 yards, 2 shots, both wouldmhave killed evern a smallish pig or a coyote.

My groups at 100 yards are comparable to a scope.

Aleko shot a sub one inch 4 shot group at 100 yards with my 308 Tracker R 93 [19 3/4" bbl] and a Doctor Optic.
If you are having problems with iron sights take alook at a Red Dot.

Zimbabwe

Most of the Blaser rifles and my new Heym 26 B have the pyramid sights you describe.

They are fast.

This is an earlier (circa 2000) Recknagel sight on my Ruger .308 I changed out the front bead to the correct height NECG white bead (for Ruger ramps). The fiber optic material is weak compared to the latest stuff available today, but is fine for the 1 or 2 times I take the scope off each season.

Jim

Thanks. I am thinking about one of those lower back blades to match the height of the factory blade rather than the higher one in the picture I posted above.

I have that exact sight on my P-64 custom "shorty" in .375H&H, along with the matching front bead. This is my backpacking rifle and I shoot 300NPs at about 2500 fps-mv.; it is for use in BC Grizzly country and also wears a Leupy 2.5C-MHD in Leupy lever QRWs.

I have it in a Micky P-64 MC stock, picked up cheap and thus like this high sight setup as I can use both it and the scope with ease given the comb height I have. I am most used to P-64s and prefer them for working rifles and am VERY pleased with this rifle, built with a take-off Mod. 70 sts Classic tube and "scrounged" parts.

We did some of the work ourselves, it looks great, handles superbly and has displaced my other heavy rifles as my regular companion. So, I would strongly recommend these sights and will add them to my .458WM Browning Safari being customized.

Thank you for the first-hand info.

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
Have never seen another rear with the Pyramid shape.

Here is mine (ERA)

Original:



Tweaked:

The "thing" about the Pyramid rear sight, or the low wide British V is that they do not obscure a lot of the animal.

These sights are much better in the field that the American "Buckhorn".

I had the NECG skeletonized fiber optic rear sight put on my 416. I think it solves a lot of problems. I am using it with a Williams 3/32 front sight, and may change to a fiber optic front. My 55 year old eyes are happier than with a standard express sight. Be prepared to try differant height front sights, since you can't adjust elevation on the rear. For about $50 at Brownell's, you can buy a front sight tool made by Williams, which is way better than drifting with a hammer and punch!

quote:

Originally posted by Marty:
I had the NECG skeletonized fiber optic rear sight put on my 416. I think it solves a lot of problems. I am using it with a Williams 3/32 front sight, and may change to a fiber optic front. My 55 year old eyes are happier than with a standard express sight. Be prepared to try differant height front sights, since you can't adjust elevation on the rear. For about $50 at Brownell's, you can buy a front sight tool made by Williams, which is way better than drifting with a hammer and punch!

Thanks!

If you REALLY want to test iron sights before you hunt with them, get some realistic animal targets and shoot them.

THAT is how you test hunting iron sights, not at bullseyes.

Real looking deer targets are probably the easiest to get.

Does anyone know off hand the correct size fron and rear insert for the Williams sights on the Interarms Alaskan? I am thinking about ordering the Williams fiber optic rear and a front fiber optic blade.

This is the rear:



And it comes in several sizes:

SPECS: Aluminum, black anodized. 3⁄16" (4.8mm), 1⁄4” (6.4mm), and 5⁄16" (7.9mm) high.

This is the front:



and I guess I need a medium although I do not know which one:

Brownell's list.

If I trusted my measurement skills more I would try it figure it out myself.

Next projects -- my front ramp may not be centered and I need to pry the McMillam stock off and put it into the Whitworth stock I bought...

http://www.williamsgunsight.co...rs.htm#GHOSTRINGLINK

Does anyone have some info on this sight from WGRS?

Does anyone maybe have an email address to get hold of them via email?

Thanks.