Hey guys,
i just spoke with Jeff at mrc. On the PH model, they are at 245 orders for the PH, and need more to justify the run.

yes, i know the charter payment method on the longs was a pain in the backside

so, here's the deal...

the ph will be offered for 525 bucks, usd, and not billed until the actions are in production. this is a win-win situation
1 more orders means quicker product launch
2 more orders means it will be in your hands quicker
3 this action is bigger than a cz, and will hold more/longer rounds

so, if you like, call or email jeff at
jeff@montanarifleman.com
Or
406-755-4867

and talk with him about getting on the charter issue.

525 bucks for a giant, square bridge model 70, with the model 70 trigger and 3 position safety...

or, frankly, 1/5 the price of a mauser square bridge.

http://www.montanarifleman.com/prohunter.htm



here ya go fellas

jeffe

Jeffe, wasn't a large part of the problem the fact that (on the long actions)

production started and billing was done
then it was months and months before delivery, and the first ones had finish problems right?

I am not saying it isn't a great deal, I just am thinking that people need to be more aware of exactly what is going to transpire. I don't hvae a horse in the race and didn't the first time, but I remmeber how bad it got at times with people getting pissed off and bringing it on here.

Red

Red,
good points... in fact, would like to hear both sides of it...

eye's open and all that

jeffe

Jeffe, how many orders do they need to begin production? Will they be available in stainless? Will a "drop box" magazine/trigger guard be available?

I waited a little over a year for my intermediate version but was happy with it, no fit or finish problems.

Will the left-hand PH actions start at the same time as the right-hand models ?

Or do they have a different counter to get started ?

Hammer

I would like to buy a couple of these, but only after seeing them in person to confirm quality.

Also, $525 may be a good price, but a double square bridge Mauser action will never be worth very much as long as it has a Sako bolt release. That makes it a bastard child, second class citizen. There would be wider interest in it if it had an authentic Mauser look.

The total for production was supposed to be 400 pieces, right and left combined. I'm in for 2, one on a 505 Gibbs bolt face. If you can find one of the old Kimber BGR .505 barrels by McGowen, they have the MRC PH thread pattern already but no chamber. There was an eBayer selling them a while back for $179.00. Should have bought several! I think he goes by "Bob at WayBack Machine". He bought all or most of the Kimber of Oregon barrels at the auction. My other is to be a 416 Rigby.

I agree about the bolt release. I hope they changed it on the PH. If not, for $525 I can afford to have it changed. Jeffe and I already discussed milling it off and putting a standard Mauser ejector box in its place.

I am down for one, but really it has been this long for 245 orders to be reached I can't se it happening at this point.

In all honesty, there hasn't been much advertising about it. I think the push that Dan made here on AR and the subsequent grief from impatient charter members put a little damper on things. That and CZ keping MRC pretty busy with the stainless short actions. Unfortunately, CZ doesn't need a big action.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
I would like to buy a couple of these, but only after seeing them in person to confirm quality.

Also, $525 may be a good price, but a double square bridge Mauser action will never be worth very much as long as it has a Sako bolt release. That makes it a bastard child, second class citizen. There would be wider interest in it if it had an authentic Mauser look.

Although the MRC has some Mauser-like features, externally it is closer to a double square bridge Model 70 than a Mauser. Though it does resemble that of a Sako, the MRC bolt release is no worse than that of the M70 (IMO).

Is the bottom metal/trigger guard cast material?

Is it aluminum or steel?

Thanks,

Mike

It is CNC machined steel or stainless.

I've got 4 on order and I think this is a hell of a good deal. The guys up at MRC will make good on whatever problem there my be on the first run. I'm going to stick it out and hope for the best. If in the end I'm out 2K well I won't like it but it's no worse than dropping $5 twice a week on the lotto or powerball.
John

Thanks Tiggertate.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
525 bucks for a giant, square bridge model 70, with the model 70 trigger and 3 position safety...

was just checking my original post.. sure enough, model 70... the PRICE was compared to a sqaure bridge

Harry,
I still don't see that it'll be alot of work to do the SECOND one with a mauser release, though it's a taste thing.. at least it's not the bastard "hold the trigger back"

Everyone who don't like the release should email jeff at mrc, with a simple email "hate the push button, want a mauser release" and he can share it upstream. heh, might save me a couple hours work for some guiness...

jeffe

If you are left handed you need to get in at the charter level. There is no action at this price with these features. Just sign up and be patient.
John

I placed my order for one for my .416 Rogby project last Fall.

The said they hoped to do the run in the Fall of 05. Looks like it's getting pushed back :-(

Jeff,

I sent MRC an email about the bolt release. When they first announced this project a couple of years ago, I provided the same feedback.

One thing's for certain, you can't beat the price!

AD

OK OK I'll make a post. Here's the deal guys. 400 is for each version ( Right or Left) doesn't matter if SS or CM because we use the same molds. Right hands will be first and we are looking at doing the Mini RH at the same time. If all goes well I would like to see them end of 1st QTR 2006. BUT, that is not a promise. You guys are right about the grief we took over the long wait time. I have never had so many people call me a snake oil salesman in my life! We are just trying to run a business and we did the first run of Long and Short Actions the best way we thought we could do it. Yes, there were some QA things that came up and we have consistantly tried to fix those as they came up. The good thing is that as we go along there are less and less problems because we have learned along the way. The design of the PH is finished! But we did not want to start on the PH until 2 things happened, 1- we have 400 orders for each -RH & LH (it costs around $100k to have everything finished up) and 2- we had enough funds ourselves to do it. We just didn't want the headache we had before. However, there are a few things in the works that could change that! If... we hit the 400. Was that vague enough? haha I do want to thank everyone for their business and look forward to this project getting off the ground. On the bolt release issue, well it'll be discussed. The bottom metal, well while we already have a design jeffesso has given me a few ideas to pass along as well. Thanks guys- oh and buying more of what we have now, will increase our funds = more $ to put towards the PHs.....hint hint.

Jeff,
seriously, unless you guys just want to fund me a safari for converting these to something more like a mauser, please please please don't use this release...

but,
if that hangs us up another 3 months, let er roll!!!

On the 400 EACH for lefties and righties... you guys really want to rethink that.... adjust the mix/threshold... or the lefty will never make it out.. just not enough giant bore shooters in the world... as I am sure you are aware, lefties run about 11% of the population..

so a FAIR mix would be 400 righties and 44 lefies!!! that would actually represent you immediate population of lefties.. and not "penalize" them for thinking with their right minds (sorry, i hate that joke)


jeffe

Have to agree with Jefe, 400 LH magnum actions is a pipe dream.

Actually I have a customer that may buy 200 left hand PH's on his own, so if he decides to do that we should be golden on both the right and left's. So no worries all you lefties we want to cater to you as well. My dad shoots left so he's got a personal interest in getting the lefties out too. I don't want you guys to think that was going to be that far out.

jeffe,

400 PH, LH, is a pipe dream. This would need a completly different set of molds, with the same setup cost as the right handed ones. Like you said, there are not that many big bore shooters. To find 400 big bore custom rifles to be built on lefthanded MRC PH actions, would take a life time, IMHO.

The only way that I can see a custom lefty PH action is, CNC milled actions at X times the cast action pricing. At 11% of RH action sales, the volume is to low even seriously look at. They are only slightly over 61% for RH now.


Hog Killer

Jeff,

What is the charter price of the left-hand PH in stainless ?

Hammer

and this is where jeffe the dreamer machinist has a nasty bout with reality and jeffe the accountant.

Keith....
shouldn't cost a cent more to make lefty molds than to make a second set of right handed molds... and setup costs would be shared, if planned, not in addition too. trigger, bottom metal, threading, are all the same... mirror image on the rest.. which, in a cam program, is a MINOR change... safety, bolt, rails, action, follower.. DONE

yes, they'll have to be prototyped, but to actually mirror them... well, send me the right hand drawing in a cad/cam program, and i'll change to left handed for 1/2 of the 100k we are talking about.

Yes, there's some fixures and changes in position during polishing and QC... which again will be mirror images...

Seems to me that if china can make left/right versions of anything for no difference in price (yeah, i know, scale), then adding these together makes good sense...

or, if there IS a huge difference in molds/toolholding/whatever ... PLAN that it will be ambidexterous from the begining, and work that out in the design... remember that cad/cam makes life pretty easy.


So, let's look at it this way...

setup costs,
RH 100,000
LH 100,000
OR
both, directionally increase of 20% (from my experience, this can be made up in planning) $120,000

Mold cost -- X RH or LH

10 RH molds 10 x (assumes lives through 40 uses each)
1 LH mols 1x (assumes lives through 40 uses)

RD/SETUp Tooling costs (do it ONCE and together)
RH Y
LH Y

both y+20%

So, assuming zero profit for the 400 rh hand units (to be conservative) at retail.. 210,000

assuming the same for the 400 LH . .. 210,000
total .........................420,000

assuming PLANNED RH/LH run at 20% uptick in single line cost

$252,000

which works back into selling 480 total (don't care which) actions at 525 to "break" even....

or a savings of 168,000, which means 320 LESS actions have to be sold, TOTAL (don't care which hand) to depreciate the cost of delevlopment in the first run (rather aggressive)

In short, it's ALWAYS cheaper to do 2 projects that do EXACTLY the same work in parallel than in series.

and that doesn't take time to market into account.


Jeff, if you dev costs are more than 20% higher to do an exact mirror image, you seriously need to outsource daftsmen


jeffe

Hammer, Same cost if you order now, $525/ea

jeffesso -You know we lost our bean counter about 5 months ago, you need a job???? haha Geez, I'm trying to push you off.......Under Promise, over deliver. I just don't want to tell you it will be "X date" and then run 4-6 months past that. Actually if it were that simple we would have done it that way on the longs, but since we have to make two seperate molds the price is pretty much the same, but you are right on all the other parts because most of the same parts work in both RH and LF and there will be savings that way.

Oh and the designing isn't the big part of the bill it's the actual molds themselves.

MontanaJeff, seriously consider an extended magazine for this action.

The Picture above does not show it but there will be what we call a "pregnant floorplate" and after discussing this with jeffesso I brought his insight into his "coffin box" to the management meeting this morning and we are all in agreement here, that all cartridges that will work in this action will be at minimum 3 + 1.
Jeff