Gentlemen

Stay away from the Bertram brass, it is too thin and will not hold the bullet snug when crimped in a .500 Jeffery die-set.

Cheers,

André

quote:

Originally posted by JefferyDenmark:
Stay away from the Bertram brass, it is too thin and will not hold the bullet snug when crimped in a .500 Jeffery die-set.

I second that! For crimping I recommend Lee's Factory Crimp Die. I sent them an empty case with a seated bullet and recieved a crimp die in less than a month after confirmation. Outstanding service. Works great!

Boha

I have a custom die-set from German Triebel.
The bullet seater die also gives the case and bullet that "death crimp" you want when loading BIG bore cartridges.
If you get a good custom bullet seater die you have one less work process to do.

Cheers,

André

Andre,

Are the two rounds at the lower right factory loaded or handloads?

Great porcupine quills - lots of good luck.

They are all hand-loads made by me.

The top ones are home made bullets.

Cheers,

André

Max brass length:

12.7x70mm (500 Schuler) is exactly = 70.00 mm
500 Jeffery is exactly = 69.85 mm

Schuler neck length = 8.70 mm
Jeffery neck length = 8.33 mm

Shoulder semi-angles (max brass spec, not chamber mini spec, mind you)
Schuler = 19.9503056 degrees
Jeffery = 12.614028 degrees

Schuler: shoulder diameter = 15.32 mm, base diameter = 15.73 mm
Jeffery: shoulder diameter = 15.42 mm, base diameter = 15.72 mm

Schuler rim diameter = 14.65 mm
Jeffery Rim diameter = 14.61 mm

I still like the Schuler better. It has a longer neck and less rebate, more body taper, and a more positive shoulder.

RIP,

You did a lot of hard work to summarize differences. Thanks for posting. Couple of questions:

1) Is this the 1928 Jeffery Kynoch drawing specifications compared to the 1940 Schuler RWS drawing specifications?

or

2) Are these the CIP 2000 .500 Jeffery case deminsions?

For both cartridges, the simultaneous May 15, 2002 CIP maximum brass specs, of course, and all I did was some arithmetic and converted the minutes and seconds of angle to degrees, for fun:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
CIP Listing:

http://www.poliisi.fi/intermin/images.nsf/files/AE55118...DE/$file/TABIcal.pdf

Thanks to ForrestB.

************************************************

The specs in this are all I know.
They are CIP. No others need apply for the title of "500 Jeffery" or "12.7x70 Schuler (500 Schuler)."

The finer points of mass confusion since the 1920's will have to be left to scholars like ALF.

Which came first, the Schuler or the Jeffery?

Good clean fun.

Well, it looks like we missed an opportunity to standardize the better case design for some reason or another on 15 May 2002.

I like the Schuler much better. As long as you know your chamber specs and have dies to match everything is jake.

Plus, I think the 12.7x70mm Schuler came first and is the original classic.

Buliwyf,
Agree 100% with your post above. The 500 Schuler is the better, the original, AND the lesser of two evils.

Ginger or Marry-Ann

Cheers,

André

boha - regarding your 500 pictured earlier, what does this rifle weigh? I ask because it appears "slim" and very much a rifle that would be a pleasure to carry / hunt with.

Thanks!

KMule

quote:

Originally posted by KMuleinAK:
boha - regarding your 500 pictured earlier, what does this rifle weigh? I ask because it appears "slim" and very much a rifle that would be a pleasure to carry / hunt with.

Thanks!

KMule

4,7 kg empty (10,36 lbs)

My 500 Jeffery was made using the Schuller reamer design. It will shoot either the Westley Richard ammo marked 500 Jeffery OR the Kynoch ammo with the shorter neck. The main difference that I feel is in the loading of the rounds in the chamber is the Westley Richards rounds and my reloads have a slight feel when the bolt closes and the other rounds by Kynoch have more of a crush fit feel to them and do take a slightly firmer bolt stroke than the other. My dies are by RCBS and labeled 500 Jeffery. Both shoot fine in my rifle. I am able to shoot about a 2" group at 100 yards with the Irons. At 50 yards it is a little under an inch. I sent my rifle back to the maker to have another floor plate made similar to a Rigby. The original floor plate caused a bit of a bind in the box. Now everything is free and easy and nice!

RIP, My loads are slower than when you shot the rifle last year. That 105-107 degree heat must have elevated the pressures on the loads that day cause they are now averaging 2211 f/s with 98 gr. Varget with 5 gr. Dacron and a Woodleigh 535g. With the 540 gr GS FN they want to go at 2175 f/s. Is it worth it to get the additional mileage and add a couple of grains to get it up 2300 f/s??
Leoanrd

lb404,

Is the factory Westley Richards ammo headstamped "500 Schuler" or "500 Jeffery"?

The crush fit feel from Kynoch may be because it has a larger shoulder diameter of the Jeffery May 15, 2002 CIP specs?

Leonard, my friend,
Thanks for the excuse to post the target I shot with your rifle again.

Indeed it was hot, but I think the Varget Extreme only varies about 0.5 fps per degree F temperature change, in a .375 H&H. Maybe the Jeffery is different?

It was indeed hot that day, but your load was perfect. I wrote 107 degrees F on this target:


It was not 105 to 107 degrees F!
It was 105 grains of Varget and 107 degrees F.

Use that load, at about 2300 fps and you have perfection with 535 to 540 grainers.


You gotta get settled on a load to get the windage and elevation precisely zeroed, eh?

You have the best chambering for your rifle and a good set of dies to match, and excellent brass. Go get some big five.

RIP, I thought you are a doctor???

That script is WAY legible!!!

Cheers,
Canuck

My Westley Richards ammo is stamped 500 JEFFERY but looks Schuler to me! I chronographed three of the WR and three of the K. All appeared to be Woodleigh bullets in FMJ. None broke 2250 @ 85 degrees.I don't know if the protected points bullets act differently pressure wise but they printed a little higher than the FMJ.

Canuck,
The sloppy handwriting of a physician comes from fatigue, boredom, and haste: time pressure, and too many "very interesting" tasks.

My handwriting is worse at times. After a little shock therapy with a 500 Schuler, my outlook on life improves, and so does my handwriting.

Thanks lb404. Have you experienced any problems with the rebated Schuler/Jeffery rim?

I guess the accuracy question is answered. Way to go Ron "The Don".

Well now, I just rationalized turning that Satterlee stainless magnum Mauser action into a 500 Schuler as an antidepressant. Ought to be done sometime in the coming decade.

I'll be aiming for 10 lbs. bare weight with a 23" barrel.

MacWalnut and stainless.

quote:

My handwriting is worse at times. After a little shock therapy with a 500 Schuler, my outlook on life improves, and so does my handwriting.

Did you ever see those pictures in the '90s, where if you stared into them focussing on infinity, some 3D shapes and scenes would appear??

Thought maybe I did the same sort of thing, and stumbled on "pharmacist vision".

lol... off

Cheers,
Canuck

This thread has been a lot of fun and quite informative.

Many thanks.

Many Original Schülers actually had set triggers. I expect their owners developed into masters of calligraphy. And writers of cheerful poems.

You have to forgive me:

The Don and a shooter from Moore
whose Schülers had hammered them sore,
in joy over this:
"the half-an-inch bliss"
wrote small happy poems galore

Shooting the half-an-inch sort of gets to you.

boha

my "large medium bore" project will be shipped out of ZA in the end of this week

My compliments, sir.

In case the members are confused about it, I draw the line between Large Bore and Large Medium bore somewhere between .505 and .510.
This, of course, is quite correct.

Husky's Big Bore will be a mere .505, whereas our .500 Jefferys actually are .510 cal.

But then I am certain Husky will get the nobel price in literature come next fall, after some months of filling the big Gibbs shell with ridiculous amounts of nitro cellulose powder and squeezing off a few friendly rounds...

Boha

Ha Ha boha well done!

Hear!Hear!

quote:

Originally posted by boha:

You have to forgive me:

The Don and a shooter from Moore
whose Schülers had hammered them sore,
in joy over this:
"the half-an-inch bliss"
wrote small happy poems galore

Shooting the half-an-inch sort of gets to you.

Boha,
I do not forgive you, I thank you for immortalizing Leonard and me in a Limerick.

Haiku anyone?

The only issue I had with my rifle was that there was some overcrowding of the magazine box with the Standard Blackburn drop box magazine. I felt it needed some more breathing room for the cartridges. I sent it back to the maker to fashion a new deeper floor plate for the rifle. Now the rifle has a true capacity of three down and close over the fourth in the chamber. My rifle seems to function fine!

RIP, when I get back from Tanzania and Butch sends me my double rifle, you may have to come down to the club again and try out some of my new stuff!

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

Haiku anyone?

Why not?


Pachyderms tumble
held firm, the steadfast and true
"half-an inch" recoils

The first ever for me!

Boha

Can iambic pentameter be far behind? Epic poetry for an epic round?

Seriously, nice to see some who can turn a phrase as well as a bolt.