I'm not trying to pick a fight...This are honest questions I have.

I had about convinced myself to order a new Searcy PH then I saw a "field grade" a couple of weeks ago (gun made in '03).

Overall the gun was fine: they're boxy (but that's what they are) it had good balance, seemed to handle well, and I'm sure both barrels when bang when the triggers were pulled, etc...

BUT... a close inspection of the barrels showed pretty sloppy soldering job. Maybe sloppy clean up job of solder is the way to put it.

I'm sure all of the parts were stuck together well, but
1) some joints had more solder left behind than others

2) they're seemed to be a pretty poor fit of the front sight ramp and quarter rib to the top barrel rib. Both had pretty good gaps in the middle where they met with the low part/middle of the rib.

Overall, it just seemed that the barrels were lacking a bit in attention to detail.

So...
1) is the way they all are?
2) is this the way the "field grades" were and now the PHs are better?
3) am I being unfair in comparing a 10K gun to 30K guns and this is what I get for the difference?

Just your honest input, please. No searcy fights.

Hmmm, that must be one of the rifles Butch had manufactured in South Africa.



Just kidding!

George

Myself,
I would have rung butch up and talked to him first, before putting it on AR.

http://www.searcyent.com

you can edit your post (little folder and pencil icon)

jeffe

Forum defined:

A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper or a radio or television program.

A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Myself,
I would have rung butch up and talked to him first, before putting it on AR.

http://www.searcyent.com

you can edit your post (little folder and pencil icon)

jeffe

Jeffe - Those were my honest observations and are legitimate questions for owners of the two grades of rifles.

I'm looking for the exprience of owners' and there seem to be more here than anywhere else.

I think the questions are honest and fair.

All posters had legimate points. But seeing that Mr Searcy visits theses forums and seems to be easy to get ahold of and talk to ( I know he answered all my emails) I would ask him directly. Not many of us here have the opportunity to handle one Searcy let alone enough to compare differences.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
I would have rung butch up and talked to him first

I think this may be asking a bit much. I mean, how is that conversation supposed to go anyway? That said, I think those who own Searcy rifles would attest to the fact that any problems with a Field Grade would be taken care of by Butch without too much inconvenience.

Best,

JohnTheGreek

Guys - pay attention... if I wanted to know what the manufacturer thougt, i would have called the manufacturer.

I want to know what the owners on this forum think. They really are simple questions... let's not make this something it's not by trying to convince other members here how they should ask their questions of other members.

Snowwolfe - what grade do you own? PH or Field?

Do you have an opinion on the questions I asked in my post?

I am going to assume that this is an information query without an unfortunate motive:

The solder job on my field grade is fine. Don't have any experience with the PH grade guns.

quote:

Originally posted by mstarling:
I am going to assume that this is an information query without an unfortunate motive:

The solder job on my field grade is fine. Don't have any experience with the PH grade guns.

That's exactly what it is... just wanted input from guys that own them before i order one.

Thanks, mstarling! I appreciate your reply.

Do you know when your gun was made?

I doubt there's 10 guys in the world that own both, and have them side by side to compare.

I've actually found butch very willing to chat, you could send him photos, and ask.

Like I said, i would have STARTED with butch

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
I doubt there's 10 guys in the world that own both, and have them side by side to compare.

I've actually found butch very willing to chat, you could send him photos, and ask.

Like I said, i would have STARTED with butch

jeffe

I hear ya Jeffe - which model do you own?

Maybe you can help me with the questions I posed?

Listen guys there is no reason to get upset over nothing, The question was asked, and why doesn't someone answer it?

New_Guy, I don't own either of the rifles you are asking about, but I have handled, and shot both on several occasions. I have known Butch for several years on a casual basis from the old days in Farmington, New Mexico. I can give you my opinion of the rifle you are looking at, if that will help. In my experience, no double rifle ever left the hands of Butch Searcy in the condition you discribe. It is my guess, the rifle has been buggered up by someone who didn't know what he was doing. Sounds like someone tried to reblue the barrels with hot blue, and had to re-solder the ribs, as a result. The PH model is much trimmer, and slimer than the older Field grade, and IMO, points, and handles much better. However, the fitting of the ribs, and sights has never been an issue on the Searcy rifles I've had anything to do with. The conditions you discribe, are not indicative of anything I've ever seen out of Butch's shop. If I were to be in the market for a NEW double rifle that would be built for me, it would be a B. Searcy PH model, chambered for 450/400NE 3", with a 3/32" Bead, and a flip up moon sight, and QD scope bases and rings installed, with a #1 wood up-grade, as nere as is posible to 9 LBS!

This is only my opinion, but one born of some knowledge of Butch's work!

Thanks Mac... that's helpful

I have one of each. My first was a Deluxe which I still own. The second was the PH. Both are 470's. I see little difference in the quality of the two. Only difference in the PH is the lack of engraving. I was amazed at the quality of the wood on the PH...looked just as nice as the Deluxe. The only other difference was the weight of the two guns. My Deluxe is about a pound heavier than the PH however this may be because the rifles were made about 6 years appart. Other than that there is no other difference I can find. I recomend you contact Butch and get all the details from him. I will almost bet my first born that if you are not happy with any rifle that butch has made he will make it right with you.

I spent about 2 years with a deluxe,, didn't own it,

jeffe

I have a PH 470 and love it. Butch used my own wood. It is flawless. The new Deluxe grade has an upgrade in engraving (as my PH has), it also has upgraded wood, an articulated front trigger and a sear/trigger system which do not allow both barrels to be fired at once.

Searcy owners . . . honest question: boxy, sloppily soldered and fitted Searcy field grade versus PH grade: Is the PH worth it or is the field grade worthless?

Searcy owners . . . I believe Butch when he says Searcy doubles are not made in South Africa, because I really didn't expect him to post here and kinda got surprised and had to eat my words . . .

Searcy owners . . . if I wanted to know what the manufacturer thought, I would have called the manufacturer, but I don't care about that, so, just your honest answers, please . . .

Searcy owners, not trying to start a fight, and I'm sure all parts are stuck together well, but . . . just wanted input from guys that own them before I order one . . .

Searcy owners . . . honest question: Are Searcy doubles made in North Korea?

What the hell is your agenda? Pick up the phone, please.

I don't own a double, but if I did, it would be a Searcy. Why? Because I met and spoke with the man. I asked him, face to face, the hard questions. And he answered them. And I liked his answers.

This isn't some corporate behemoth you're talking about. This is a human being, a man who has posted here and who has a publicly listed phone number.

Try it.

I cannot remember a single Searcy owner that has related a bad story about his double. An as we all know yu cannot please All of the people All of the time.
I handled Rays rifle before he had the latest stock work done and I like the trimmer reciever much better. A 450/400 Searcy, like Dougaboy talks about would be a hard double to beat for the modern hunter.
Recoil way less than the 470 rifles, yet I have NEVER read of ANYONE and this includes a lot of old time hunters/poachers, who shot lots of elephants and buff EVER say anything bad about the 450/400.
A scoped 450/400.... would be a real MASTERPIECE.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
I spent about 2 years with a deluxe,, didn't own it,

jeffe

Was it a defacto relationship?

Nitro...
mate., its not like another fella's shella... no one complained when everyone took a turn!!

let's see, I shot the 3rd and 4th rounds from it, then between 1/4 and 1/3 of the shots from it, cleaned it, oiled it, loaded for it, bitched at it when it kicked me too hard, and then had to take the pics and setup the ad to sell it and brokering the deal to sell it.

defacto? no, no decasho!!

as for "bad stories" on butch's rifle.. unlike a huge company, he will fix those, if the rifle aint buggered by someone else

450#2
Have you heard of the 450/400#2 ? (new bubba'ed name)

thats the next double from a shotgun I'll be working on... it's the 500/416 (down?) loaded to 2200 with a 400gr pill for a LOW pressure double, rather than the 44kpsi from the 500/416.

MrLex...
I've told this guy to pic up the phone... he obviously doesn't want to talk to butch.

jeffe

My recently acquired 500 Nitro double from Butch-PH grade-has none of the problems you mentioned.

quote:

Searcy owners . . . honest question: boxy, sloppily soldered and fitted Searcy field grade versus PH grade: Is the PH worth it or is the field grade worthless?

Now I've handled an early field model with a rather boxy forearm, however anyone here own a rifle with sloppy soldering or poorly fitting rifle?


From what I know of Butch I don't think he'd let one of those out of the factory in Boron.

If I were to buy an American made double rifle I'd opt for a Searcy. I understand a lot of R&D on a well made double rifle over in Porter, TX but not a production model yet.

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Searcy owners . . . honest question: boxy, sloppily soldered and fitted Searcy field grade versus PH grade: Is the PH worth it or is the field grade worthless?

Searcy owners . . . I believe Butch when he says Searcy doubles are not made in South Africa, because I really didn't expect him to post here and kinda got surprised and had to eat my words . . .

Searcy owners . . . if I wanted to know what the manufacturer thought, I would have called the manufacturer, but I don't care about that, so, just your honest answers, please . . .

Searcy owners, not trying to start a fight, and I'm sure all parts are stuck together well, but . . . just wanted input from guys that own them before I order one . . .

Searcy owners . . . honest question: Are Searcy doubles made in North Korea?

What the hell is your agenda? Pick up the phone, please.

I don't own a double, but if I did, it would be a Searcy. Why? Because I met and spoke with the man. I asked him, face to face, the hard questions. And he answered them. And I liked his answers.

This isn't some corporate behemoth you're talking about. This is a human being, a man who has posted here and who has a publicly listed phone number.

Try it.

WTF is your problem?

You don't own one, and you've got nothing to contribute.

I've never said a cross word to you here. So why start it with me?

Hey you guys who want New Guy to call Butch.

As somoene posted, how is this conversation suposed to go?

"High Butch, wanted to talk to you about a new double, but first I want to talk to you about a POS I handled that had your name on it"?

I wouldn't want to make that call. Its just a no win call. What is Butch supposed to say?

"Yeah, I made a couple of real POS, but now every rifle is perfect"? Or,"gee, I'm sure we're getting better every day, since we strive to improve every day, but I certainly can't recall sending out any POS rfiles, and can't really comment since I don't know which rifle your talking about and certainly don't have it here..."

The chances of gaining useful info from such a call is zero.

New Guy is just trying to get feedback from guys with Butch's rifles or who have experience with them. Nothing wrong with that and he beat me to the punch.

Thanks to the guys who posted useful answers.

JPK

I agree I don't see any problem with asking the question on this forum!

I also don't see a problem calling Butch - he is a straight shooter.

Butch does good work and will stand behind his product - he got my business (I've been looking & asking questions for about 10 months). And I will put my money where my mouth is - I sent my deposit to Butch this week for one of his PH double rifles.

It just so happens I talked with Butch yesterday about the 470 super Deluxe grade double he is building for me and we eneded up dicussing some of the things mentioned in this thread. He used to build a field grade double for $7500. Because quite a few people expected more out of the rifle then he could afford to put into one for $7500, he dropped that grade and went to the $9500 PH gade. Obviously you can get a lot more for &9500 then $7500.

He tried to get a factory going in SA but after many $$ had to give up hope. He currently has a factory started in Stugis SD. Some of the rifles are built there and sent to Cal for finishing including engraving and regulating. He says he may move all work there some time in the future. If you want a $7500 double buy a Merkel!

465H&H

See new_guy, it can be done. 465H&H just did it.

Here's another suggestion.

Maybe, instead of asking a question that's been asked before at least a few dozen times, it might be a good idea to try performing a search.

I might suggest the keyword "Searcy" for this one. I just tried it for the hell of it and got 1,562 matches.

Or, again, not to beat a dead horse, if you really want to hear something useful on this subject, PICK UP THE PHONE and call Butch Searcy himself and have a conversation.

Or even better, visit a show, like DSC or SCI, and meet the man and handle his rifles.

I have met and spoken with Butch. I have discussed with him whether the lack of a third fastener makes his rifles prone to shoot off the face sooner than those with Greener style cross-bolts or doll's head rib extensions. I have asked him about quality issues, about his stock patterns and about the steel and construction methods he uses. I have handled many of his rifles.

Butch doesn't bite. He is thoughtful and articulate. He answered all of my questions in a forthright way. He is an impressive person, who has a passion for what he does. And the quality of his rifles that I have examined demonstrates that.

But of course, anyone can ask any question he wants on this forum, and far be it from me to pick a fight.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Because quite a few people expected more out of the rifle then he could afford to put into one for $7500, he dropped that grade and went to the $9500 PH gade. Obviously you can get a lot more for &9500 then $7500.
465H&H

Thanks, 465 - I think that's a plausible observation. Thanks for the info.

Was Butch elected a Saint before or after he was appointed to his God like status on AR?

How many of you fellows would have commented if new_guy had of asked the question about a Krieghoff? Would you have told him to call Dieter instead of posting the question here?

Many people feel that the workmanship and finished appearance of a Searcy isn't always up to snuff. I know he has been told this before and I'm sure he is doing everything he can to turn out the best product possible.

Asking a question doesn't call for being pilloried or burnt at the stake.

quote:

Originally posted by Mickey1:
How many of you fellows would have commented if new_guy had of asked the question about a Krieghoff? ....

Asking a question doesn't call for being pilloried or burnt at the stake.

Mickey,
He was asked to call a PERSON, not a CORPORATION (even though buch is a .inc)..

Why? Because PEOPLE are accountable, companies put out a volume of PRODUCT.

Hell, Butch answered his last post, in public, on south africa, before he even posted this thread.

Or, in short, Butch has been seen to CARE for his product, while remington/kreighoff, etc, tell you to send to a repair center.

You are right, asking a question doesn't.

Not asking the RIGHT PERSON gets you told to ask the correct person.

Butch aint a saint, I don't always agree with him the second he says something, but he does grow on you. I told him about 5 or 6 years ago "just got a 416 rem".. he said "good, everyone needs a varmit rifle"... And now I understand what he said.

Take New_guy's string of questions on searcy's.. and the fact he could call the man and get his answers straight.

I suggested he GO TO THE SOURCE, as the answer to his questions.. You got a question about butch's product.. call him. If you want an answer after that, as I suggested, then put it out for discussion.


jeffe

jeffe - I appreciate your advice on how I conduct myself on this forum, and where and how I pose questions on this forum and how I'm supposed to conduct myself in other areas of my life.

I guess when I start seeing your name on the inbound paychecks and the out-bound payables then I'll take your suggestive advice a bit more seriously.

Until then, maybe we can focus on the questions I posed on this open forum. And if you don't have anything to contribute except for advice on how I should conduct myself, then see the second paragraph above, and we'll simply agree to disagree.

Sorry that my direct questions to the board got you so bent out of shape.

Because Butch provides an exceptional product which is stronger and more accurate than others for a price others cannot match, he is a target for rumors from those who cannot compete with him.

Remember the Searcy double we were told about which blew up in Africa? It turned out to be a Sako bolt rifle. There is one price on Searcy's. There is no wholesale and no discount for PH's who have offered to puff his guns for a discount or free gun. Butch's guns don't need puffing. But there are some folks who get mad that he won't do so and are told what they can do with their offers.

Searcy guns have gotten the compliments they are given the oldfashioned way...they earned them.

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:
jeffe - I appreciate your advice on how I conduct myself on this forum, and where and how I pose questions on this forum and how I'm supposed to conduct myself in other areas of my life.

I guess when I start seeing your name on the inbound paychecks and the out-bound payables then I'll take your suggestive advice a bit more seriously.

Until then, maybe we can focus on the questions I posed on this open forum. And if you don't have anything to contribute except for advice on how I should conduct myself, then see the second paragraph above, and we'll simply agree to disagree.

Sorry that my direct questions to the board got you so bent out of shape.

Actually, new_guy...

I gave you an answer to your question, that would be the shortest route to direct answers.

then I was flogged.

live and learn, i reckon.

jeffe

What are the actual differences between the field grades & PH's? oh yeah, mine was a .470 FG Searcy.

Gee, _NG, you ask for advice, several people respond in kind. In turn, you jump on those who offer you options on your requests.
Now, you seem a bit verklempt?

Are you looking for opines or just a forum to display your dislike for a certain product?

Perhaps you could help me to understand?

New Guy,
I have never seen a Searcy such as you describe, I know of a guy that had a Searcy worked over and he lived in your town and his gunsmith screwed it up big time, and that gun was in Butches shop and fit the description you describe, I gather the guy was mad as hell at Butch because Butch charged him a grand or so to fix it simply because the guy let his gunsmith screw it up...Its a coencedense that it was from your town so would that be the gun in question and is it yours or a friends gun? Just a thought

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
Gee, _NG, you ask for advice, several people respond in kind. In turn, you jump on those who offer you options on your requests.
Now, you seem a bit verklempt?

Are you looking for opines or just a forum to display your dislike for a certain product?

Perhaps you could help me to understand?

No, that's not it at all Rusty.

As a matter of fact, I do like the Searcy, and do plan on ordering one. As a coincidence, I ran into this gun a couple of weeks back, and it's just been on my mind since then.

Some have offered insight (as I requested) while others have suggested that my questions are motivated by some agenda (if I'm buying the gun - what's my agenda against these guns) and others have basically told me that I've gone about this all wrong (which I didn't ask for).

What they don't see is that I wanted the opinion of owners here, knowing (as some have suggested) that it wouldn't be the kind of questioning most were comfortable posing to the manufacturer.

I didnt' mean to step on anyone's toes, just wanted to pose a question.

I guess if I order a Searcy and then show everyone here a picture of me with it, then that'll prove that I don't have an agenda???

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
New Guy,
I have never seen a Searcy such as you describe, I know of a guy that had a Searcy worked over and he lived in your town and his gunsmith screwed it up big time, and that gun was in Butches shop and fit the description you describe, I gather the guy was mad as hell at Butch because Butch charged him a grand or so to fix it simply because the guy let his gunsmith screw it up...Its a coencedense that it was from your town so would that be the gun in question and is it yours or a friends gun? Just a thought

No, not my gun... not a friends gun, just one that I ran across for sale. However, if it fits the description - it could be the same gun.

The guy that owns it didn't mention any problems or opinions of Butch or the rifle.

Thanks to St. Ray of Leupold and Wood, another great mystery is solved!