The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores The 416 Ruger gods have it in for meGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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 So the only dies I could find for the 416 Ruger are Hornady dies. Not my first choice but for now the only available to me ! But then I found that the Hornady shell holder for the Ruger does not fit in my RCBS press  So then I do a search and it says go number 4 on RCBS new cases , I run the prep ! Imperial wax first case goes through no problems... camfer the mouth in and out Great next one ! The case goes in and the downcycle and then disaster when I raise the lever the case loses its rim and now Im stuck with a 416 Case... no rim stuck in my die ! I am pissed ! Looks like this Ruger thing has a vendetta against me !  | ||
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Yeah...MORE WAX NEEDED...and an RCBS stuck case remover...mine has paid for itself time after time(does that tell you something about MY resizing methods)  Don't feel too bad, I ripped the half the rim off the first 6.5 Wby Mag case I tried to resize but was lucky enough to loosen it enough to grab the other rim half and it came out. Polished the ID a bit and now it's slick as .....New dies are PITA'sGood Hunting   | |||
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Before you panic too much, I know that RCBS has a case extraction program - just mail the die in. I'm betting Hornady does as well. Alternatively (and I've done this), drill and tap the primer pocket and fill a container (like a film canister) with a penetrating oil like Kroil. Put the die in and soak overnight. When you pull it out, lock the die in a vice and use a combination of a bolt/washers and an appropriate sized socket. Put the socket on top of the die in the vice, put the bolt/washer, threaded through the top of the socket and use a wrench to screw/tension the case. Go slowly and you can back the case right out of the die. Good luck and don't panic! Regards, Robert ****************************** H4350! It stays crunchy in milk longer! | |||
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rnovi did agood job of describing a homemade RCBS Stuck Case kit. It has happened to me more times than I will admit. That cheap little RCBS stuck case remover is an indispensable tool. Rip ... | |||
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Karma  Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Mike Just for interest: The Hornady no 5 Shellholder does not fit the RCBS ram but the case sits nice and snug in the shellholder ! no wobble of wiggle room. The RCBS No 4 is listed as the shellholder for the 375/416 Ruger but the case fits loose in the holder, lots of wiggle and more when it pulled the rim off it did so on two opposite sides and not all the way around ( ie 3/4 of the circumference ) this is concerning because it means the shellholder is not gripping the rim 3/4 way around as it should ? I really have not liked Hornady dies especially the older ones with the smooth rod. This evening a ordered a set of Redding Deluxe dies and a No 6 Redding shellholder. Will see how it works out. | |||
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There are as many shell holder designs as there are ticks on a deer. I have at least a dozen from various makers for ONE family of cases...I also have a a set of Lee shell holders that cover all but a few "different" case bases. I bought one supposedly for the 26/28 Nosler cases and it wasn't right...the inner diameter was slightly too small and the bevels weren't right either, but I dug around and found one of the Lee holders worked perfectly...and so did several of the run of the mill "standard" belted mag holders...could have saved my money. If you have a lathe/mill/drill press you can make a stuck shell remover very easy and a 17/32 drill or mill and you can hog out a few 1/2" washers( or some steel flat stock drilled out, a socket works great also) with a round mill file and use them along with a 1/4-20 tap/machine screw(allen head or whatever you have on hand) and a .201/#7 drill...the washers go over the case and against the bottom of the die, enough to leave about 1/16 - 1/8" gap on top for the case to end up, another 3/8 washer or two plus a 1/4" washer so the machine screw will hold. Pull up the priming pin as far as it will go, drill out and tap the flash hole...stack the washers, insert the screw and turn the wrench. I did this several times before I popped for the RCBS set...Not my idea totally, it came from a gunsmith mentor and a shop teacher showing students how to pull bearings, and how to make do or make tools. It's nothing but physics...one force, the screw in the case, pushing/pulling on an "immovable" object, the die. Good Hunting | |||
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So , Alf; if for some reason you ever came to the Copper Basin and brought your 416 Ruger. But your ammo didn't make the trip. You would be OK. They have 5 boxes of factory ammo in stock out at Wenger's General Store . Mile 10ish . Edgerton Hwy. Kenny Lake. Saw them there today. For those that may not know. ( understandably most everyone on this forum) Wenger's , well Kenny Lake for that matter. Is kinda out in the middle of nowhere. Oddly enough, I didn't see any 375 H+H there. But they do have some 375 at Tazlina Trading Post in Tazlina. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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3/8 bolt "just long enough", 7/8"or so 1/2 socket, couple washers .. drill and tap the case for 3/8, put socket mouth to case, drop bolt through washers, through socket, tighten .. case pops out opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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LMAO opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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stick the die in the freezer for a few hours. The brass will shrink away from the steel die. You then can remove the brass pretty easy. | |||
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The brass will shrink more than the steel die ? Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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No, the die shrinks increasing the inside diameter of it. Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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Back on track and tomorrow the battle continues! A package arrived today Redding 3 die set ( full length and neck) new shell holder and a set of 30mm Leopold medium mounts. Will fit a 30mm tube 1-4 German scope. Some loading ahead ! Im not worried about velocity so much as long as it's over 2100 fps but accuracy is mandatory ! | |||
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Use a 7-9 power scope for load development, then mount your 1-4 power scope Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Really? A barrel heats up, it gets larger in ID and OD. A barrel cools down, it gets smaller in ID and OD. I learned that here at AR. Rip ... | |||
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Alf, good luck with the more fragile Leupold rings holding a 30mm-tubed scope. Ruger does make some rings for 30 mm. If you use the Leupold rings, better off with a light 1"-tube scope. Rip ... | |||
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Stayed tight for 40 shots of .458 Win.Mag. 500 grainers worked up to over 2200 fps, the main mounting screw clamping head properly seated before tightening showed no loosening at all with recoil:  The action screws stayed tight and the scope mounts too, for the equivalent of average load like a Hornady Superformance 500-grainer X 40 shots. The 6.5-ounce Leupold 2.5X Ultralight does not stress the mounts much at all. This rifle is as solid as it gets.  True, these older, smoother-finished rings did not suffer quality control issues, except for the tiny T10 torx screws in the ring tops. They hold up well, but might break the silly, tiny torx bit if I ever tried to remove them.  Rip ... | |||
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Well I learned it from teaching mechanics to use cryogenic couplings used in the aerospace world. Now sticking something in a home freezer doesn't do much with it relatively limited ability to get cold enough. Cyrofit couplings and bushings are stored in much much colder LN2 until used. A little trick used in class to demonstrate how cold is to take a balloon, dip it into the liquid nitrogen than throw it on the floor. It shatters. Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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Well, I used to use liquid nitrogen to remove warts and pre-malignant actinic keratoses from little old ladies ... irrelevant! Balloon tricks too.  You may be right in your technique of removing stuck brass case from a steel die by cooling it, but not for the reason you say. CTF is on the right trail. The thermal expansion coefficient of copper is greater than for steel. Brass too. Aluminum is way more still. Brass shrinks more on cooling than steel does. Cool the steel die and both the O.D. and I.D. of the steel die will decrease. Heat it up and the hole (I.D.) gets bigger, as does the O.D. and length of the die. Thermal coefficients of expansion: Aluminum ... 21-24 Brass ...... 18-19 Copper ..... 16-16.7 Steel ...... 11-12.5 Steel Stainless Ferritic (410) ... 9.9 Brass shrinks more than steel when cooled. Grows more when heated. Hey! That would help brass cartridges seal a steel bore when fired, and ease extraction as it cools. https://www.engineeringtoolbox...efficients-d_95.html Heat up a machinegun barrel and the bore gets bigger and accuracy suffers. Cool it and the bore shrinks back down to good acccuracy if you have not melted it! Rip ... | |||
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Once again thanks RIP for adding the details. Yes the CTE of the materials you listed are right.  But, fittings used on aircraft tubing must decrease the inside dimension in order to seal as they warm. That's just the way it is.......  Now let's get back on topic. Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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I know that the inside diameter of a hollow, round piece of steel . Decreases in the cold. At 50 below its actually dangerous to fire a gun with above 0° ammo. And even with same cold temp ammo. If it has a temp stable powder and hot primer. I've always had to use extra force to chamber a round at colder than 40, 45 below . Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Learned something useful there, in case I go hunting in a polar region. I never had to think of that before. To decrease the inside diameter of a tube/pipe as it warms, might there be a fitting of lesser TCE around a tube of higher TCE? Like steel around brass, copper or aluminum? Hey, that is like a stuck case in a die.  Or brass around aluminum? The fitting would not expand as much and the tube would expand more, inside the fitting, maybe choking down the ID of the tube? I am going to have to go sleep on that one, at a Holiday Inn Express ... Rip ... | |||
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I had a similar experince with 416 rm and Redding dies. I was ready to get a piece of pipe but pounded the arm down. Went in fine with Imperial but pulling it over expander ball just about flipped the bench over. Tried jewelers rouge, didn't work. Sprayed a 410 swab with tetra cleaning lubricant. It cleaned and lubed inside of necks and NO problems after that. | |||
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I hope I'm not coming off as argumentative. I don't mean to be. But that has been my experience. Since I loathe stuck cases in a die. I tend to lube them quite well. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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If your careful and go slow, you can heat the resizing die just enough for the case to more ofter than not just fall out. However I do use channel locks while doing this to put some pull pressure on the case.. I also have a RCBS stuck case remover, I have the older one that you just use a wrench and push the case out the bottom..Saved me many heasaches...BTW adding more Imperial or any case lube is not the answer, the less you use the better the resize within reason and there is not any better lube than Imperial..A can of that stuff applied by hand will last two lifetimes. Cases get stuck through carelessness and were all guilty of that, Ive stuck many a case in the last 60 years, fewer as the years went by however! Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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With a less than Maximum load of RL15 and a Hornady 400, I achieved that and very good accuracy.  Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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