Here are pics of a few mono-metal solid bullets.


Bridger .474, North Fork .474, Nosler .458 all 500 grain weight.



noses of same.

the Bridger measures 77% of bullet diameter, the North Fork 77% and the Nosler 70%.

With that, the question is "What do you estimate the affect of the Nosler FN will be?" Will it approach the penetration ability of the Bridger or NF?

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Here are pics of a few mono-metal solid bullets.


Bridger .474, North Fork .474, Nosler .458 all 500 grain weight.



noses of same.

the Bridger measures 77% of bullet diameter, the North Fork 77% and the Nosler 70%.

With that, the question is "What do you estimate the affect of the Nosler FN will be?" Will it approach the penetration ability of the Bridger or NF?

465H&H

With the Handgun hard cast bullets 77 to 78 percent meplat seems to penetrate better than 70 to 72 percent. Don't know what effects the higher rifle velocity will have on the difference in meplat size.

The reason I wonder is that the Sledgehammer .458 solid has a meplat of only 59% yet it has a very good reputation for penetration. Perhaps a meplat of 70% is a good trade off for more sure feeding in factory rifles.

465H&H

I was always under-impressed with the penetration of the Sledgehammer out of my 470. They have a rather small meplat and I wouldn't think that their penetration is in the same league as the newer flat nose solids

I doubt if anyone at this point has used them enough to really make a positive statement.

However, my choice would be the Bridger, Northfork, then the Nosler and in that order. I used to grind the noses of the ITTC RN monolithics to flat and used them a bit and I don't think they killed as well as the Bridgers, which are my all time favorites. but I wouldn't bet money on it, just my opinnion based on some stuff I shot with them..The North forks seemed to perform almost as good as the Bridgers I suppose.

One thing that facinated me with Bridgers was the "cutting shoulder" made neat round wounds like a wadcutter in the buffalo skin and it also shaved the hair off aroound the hole for an inch or even two inches in some cases..I suppose that was as the skin went inward with bullet impact then popped back all shaved like a barber had gotten hold of it. The Bridgers seemed harder and the edges were still sharp on recovered bullet from lengthwise shots..I got the impresion the entrance hole bled better, but who knows..

As far back as the 60's I tried to get Barnes and other bullet makers to duplicate Elmer Keiths simi wad cutter in big bore rifle rounds, monolithics or steel jacketed solids, but it landed on deaf ears. GS customs was the first as I recall and as soon as I heard of them I started using their bullet.

At any rate most of the available solids today have "enough" penetration and you seldom hear of bullet failure anymore.

Anyway for what its worth and I make no claim to accuracy of the above statements, just opinnion arrived at for whatever reason..

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:

With that, the question is "What do you estimate the affect of the Nosler FN will be?" Will it approach the penetration ability of the Bridger or NF?

465H&H

I don't know - just to backup Ray's notes on Bridgers - here are results of 9,3 mm Bridgers on buff's head:

Recovered bullets:



Buffs head and lower jaw before boiling - pure mess (left side of the jaw was broken by frontal shot with NF FN and the right side by side head shot with Bridger after passing through head):



Skull after boiling - tho shot was a near miss of the brain it killed buff stone dead:



And I have allready described the effect of the same 9,3 Bridger on eland shot between neck and shoulder - exit on the opposite shoulder - run 80m and died - permanent tissue damage on lungs was app 15 mm dia - guy was spiting blood and pieces of the lungs all around (some can be seen on the pic as we found him) - all in all - results worth of a premium soft.



IMO Bridgers, NF and GS flat nosers put all the calibers in a higher class and certainly put FN nosler on a high test.

I believe that the Bridgers would be the best choice with pentration about equal with the NF's. But the Bridger is a harder bullet which I think might be better.

I'd guess the Nosler will not be quite the equal for peneteration. But I'm sure that if driven at the same speeds, penetration will be mare than adequate, and better than a similar bullet with a round nose or smaller meplat.

JPK

That is going to be an awfully long bullet for the 458 Win Mag at 500gr.

If I was a 458 bolt gun user I would try to get them to make a 450gr solid.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
That is going to be an awfully long bullet for the 458 Win Mag at 500gr.

If I was a 458 bolt gun user I would try to get them to make a 450gr solid.

Better yet, to put a tungsten core in the rear of the bullet.

They measure 1.031"

465H&H

UPS just dropped off a box of the new Hornady DGS 458 Win ammo. The meplat on this steel jacketed solid is 61% of bullet diameter.

465H&H

465H&H,

I'm betting that the Hornaday will be a great bullet. The round nose steel jacketed 500 grainers, either the Woodleighs or the old steel jacketed Hornadays work just fine at 2100fps+, as you know, and 2100fps isn't a challenge at all from a 458wm. And while the new flat nose doesn't share the large meplat of the NF, GS Custom, etc mono solids, it should outperform the round noses which work plenty well already.

I think 450NE No2 is right about the length of the Nosler, at least for the 458wm.

Also, I think a rear tungsten core would make a bullet tumble at the first opportunity, where a more forward tungsten core would help with straightline penetration. Thinking badmiton birdie anology here.

JPK

quote:

I think a rear tungsten core would make a bullet tumble at the first opportunity

Yeah, bad idea. And that might be a/the problem with all jacketed or any ass heavy bullet.

Correction!

The length of the Nosler solid is 1.503" not 1.031.

JPK,

I agree that a more forward placement of the tungsten core would be ideal but the cost of such a bullet might be prohibitive as some material lighter than tungsten would be needed to plug the rear portion of the bullet. The Sledgehammer has such a construction using lead in the rear core and I haven't heard any significant problems with tumbling with it.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Correction!

The length of the Nosler solid is 1.503" not 1.031.

JPK,

I agree that a more forward placement of the tungsten core would be ideal but the cost of such a bullet might be prohibitive as some material lighter than tungsten would be needed to plug the rear portion of the bullet. The Sledgehammer has such a construction using lead in the rear core and I haven't heard any significant problems with tumbling with it.

465H&H

465H&H,

I think I would disagree on reports regarding the Sledgehammer. There are many reports of bent bullets, especially the .375" bullets. Bent bullets are ussually a result of tumbling, imo.

JPK

The Sledhammer has a small Meplat and the wider the Meplat the better the shoulder stabilization of the bullet and the less likely hood of the bullet not tracking straight.

likelihood

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Correction!

The length of the Nosler solid is 1.503" not 1.031.


I agree that a more forward placement of the tungsten core would be ideal but the cost of such a bullet might be prohibitive as some material lighter than tungsten would be needed to plug the rear portion of the bullet. The Sledgehammer has such a construction using lead in the rear core and I haven't heard any significant problems with tumbling with it.

465H&H

465H&H,

I think I would disagree on reports regarding the Sledgehammer. There are many reports of bent bullets, especially the .375" bullets. Bent bullets are ussually a result of tumbling, imo.

JPK

JPK,

There have also been reports of .375 diam. Sledgehammers breaking in half because they are too long for caliber but I was talking about real elephant calibers not the 375 although before anyone jumps on me it is one of my favorite calibers for anything up to and including buffalo. I just don't think it is a reliable elephant stopper. I am speaking here specifically of the .458 diam. bullets.

465H&H

465H&H,

Yes, it is true that the .458" Sledgehammers enjoy a far, far better reputation. I would hunt with without hesitation if that was what was available. The Federal 458wm loading is fairly available even in the bush, and a good Plan B if required. Shoots ok in my rifle too, good enough for elephants or buff, crossing at about 25yds.

I'm with you regarding the 375H&H on both counts as well. The best thing about the 375H&H is it's do everything versatility, and if the true elephant rifle breaksdown or is out of suitable ammo, it will do for eles if required too.

I keep meaning to kill an elephant with my 375H&H, but when my 458wm is there I just can't make myself reach for the 375H&H. Once when I did, PH Rich Tabor asked me what the hell I was doing, when I told him he asked why in the world would an apparently sane man do that when there was a perfectly good 458wm and plenty of ammo right there!

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
"What do you estimate the affect of the Nosler FN will be?" Will it approach the penetration ability of the Bridger or NF?

The Nosler will have reduced penetration because it has an ogive rather than a frusto-conical shape.

Further, the Nosler is too long, which reduces penetration. Its weight should be reduced 10% to get it back to proper length, or a barrel with an extra-fast twist is needed.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
"What do you estimate the affect of the Nosler FN will be?" Will it approach the penetration ability of the Bridger or NF?

The Nosler will have reduced penetration because it has an ogive rather than a frusto-conical shape.

Further, the Nosler is too long, which reduces penetration. Its weight should be reduced 10% to get it back to proper length, or a barrel with an extra-fast twist is needed.

The Nosler 500 grain solid is actually .001" shorter than the 550 grain Woodleigh solid and I "KNOW" it stabilizes well and penetrates wonderfully out of the Lott with 1 in 14" twist.

465H&H

quote:

The Sledgehammer has such a construction using lead in the rear core and I haven't heard any significant problems with tumbling with it.

My PH did not care for them as he had seen a number of them bend.

I think the main problem w the Nosler solid will prove to be that it is not really a Truncated Cone bullet like the GS, Bridger and North Fork.

I am pretty sure the meplat is too much like a RN profile for a vapor barrier to remain intact. In other words it will be outside of the bubble and create drag.

The ratio of meplat to diameter is interesting and useful though!

Also from the reloading bench, why on earth didn't they put more than one crimping groove on that bullet?????

It is for .458 winchester and/or Lott only.

WAAAY to short for a Dakota, Rigby or Weatherby.



Pictured OCL for my Dakota.

Come on Team Nosler, you are supposed to be making bullets for re-loaders here!

Andy

I think that about any of todays good solid bullets work...I have not seen bullet failure much in the last 10 years, its almost non existant anymore IMO...

I owuld not hesitate to use a GS customs HP or Barnes X on an elephant today, even with a brain shot if thats all I had and I betcha it would put him to the ground.

If what I suspect is true then whatever will we talk about now for goodness sakes! Probably the same old stuff just like it still existed!

Ray,

This isnt the same old stuff.

The question is, why did nosler not make a bullet that was suitable for a 460 GA, 450 Rigby, 450 Dakota or 460 Weatherby?

Andy,

Enlighten me. Why isn't it suitable?

465H&H

The OCL for a Dakota is as pictured. There is no place to crimp the case despite nosler literature saying there are multiple crimping grooves.

(Where are they?)

The win mag and Lott can be crimped into the rear of the single, wide crimp groove.

Other calibers cannot.

The OCL as pictured will not hold up to even one or two shots in my 11 pound Dakota.

Andy