quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
The Schuler is technically a different cartridge but that's not the give away it could be..

Yes, I guess I knew that there was a difference. The rifle came with an unopened box of 535g Soft Nose Kynoch Factory ammo (5 rounds) and 2 unopened boxes of 535g Solids Westly Richards Factory ammo. (10 rounds) It chambers these OK, but I haven't fired the rifle yet.

this does appear to be a recent re-imagining of a classic 500 Jeff - though, with no proof marks, how the barrel is stamped (it's individual characters), the parts used, the finish on the parts, etc,

Yes. The BITER stamp on the bottom of the barrel is the only stamp that is a "one-line" stamp.

and there only being the one crossbolt, with a butterknife on a 500 jeffe, this wasn't built for an experienced owner (or perhaps gunsmith, but that's conjecture)

i am shocked at the thumb cut not being paired in the wood - this would be really darn helpful in a reloading situation -

Yes, that's something I plan on correcting, just to make it look right.

it's a neat looking rifle - i doubt it's been shot much, if at all -- the tang is RIGHT ON the wood, which we generally see that this leads to splitting the stock right there -

i am guessing it's also not bedded -

Actually, it "is" bedded. The entire action with the tang and the bottom metal, and about 6" of the barrel are glass bedded with a redish color bedding that looks like it might have been the now discontinued Micro-Bed, or something similar. I was told the rifle has a Mecury Recoil reducer installed in the stock but I haven't removed the buttplate to confirm this.

I agree about it not being shot much. In addition to the Factory ammo, it came with 10 empty Westley Richard cases in their original boxes, and a box containing 17 empties and 3 loaded rounds that were custom loaded by NYATI INC. That box has their printed label that reads; "50 yard Practice Ammunition" "Not For Dangerous Game Evcer". Hand written end labels by NYATI read; "440 SP 2000 fps" & "440 SP 1300 fps black tip". I'm guessing that's a total of only 27 shots through the rifle as the former owner did not reload. I was also told by the former owner that the rifle went to Africa and took 2 Buffalo and an Elephant, evidensed by the 2 empty boxes (with spent cases) of Westley Richards 535g solids.

I would NOT shoot it without relieving the tang -- first and foremost.

Yes, that's also in my plans.

I would then put an axial pin down the wrist, a rear crossbolt, and would have some serious thoughts about the scalpel, er, butterknife and how it's going to come back into the meat of my hand..

All good suggestions worth considering

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
BTW, watch where you put your left thumb when you shoot this -- i've got a wee scar from wrapping my thumb around the forearm/barrel with this same sight

Yes, I've got one of those too.

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
Not sure what the London practice was but I would not bother matching the wood to the thumb cut out, unless you can get some stripper clips to work through the boss.

I have managed to stretch standard Mauser clips to accept 458 WM rims but the 500 Jeffery is another 11 thou. bigger.

I'll be matching the thumb cut-out to the stock, "only for looks", not function. I have no intentions of trying to use stripper clips for loading. Especially since (as you can see in the picture) the right stripper clip slot has been milled-away to give additional clearance for loading.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
you can confirm if has merc tube by "sloshing" the rifle .. it will kinda feel like a "ocean" lava lamp .. you CAN hear it

Yes, you're right! Kinda sounds like a small water bottle in the stock. Thanks so much for you're suggestion. I really didn't look forward to removing the recoil pad.

really, do relieve the tang .. the drop in the stock doesn't concern me, if you let it roll UP and RIGHT .. don't try to hold it down!!

As you might have seen from some of my previous posts here on AR, I've got a lot of experience with "rolling with recoil" from some pretty big bruisers, from 378 Wby Mag up to 700 NE, and a dozen in between. I hope to be playing with this one some time next week when my reloading dies arrive.

i may not have the most 500 jeffe shooting experience, but i am on the list - i've built a whopping THREE of them ...

Yes, that puts you on the list for sure.

440 gr at 2000 fps isn't anything like 530 at 2400 ... about half, i'd say -- Forrest used to call me out on my full house-but-cast loads for these

Actually its nearly "4 times" as much recoil - 29.3 ft/lbs of recoil, vs 110.9 ft/lbs. (corrected)

it's a really fun round -- though not really efficient -- which is why i did the 500 AccRel

For me, the attraction was; its just another "500" that I didn't yet have. It fits right in with my 505 Gibbs and my 500 SRE, and my 500 NE.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

... really, do relieve the tang ...

I had some extra time today, so I relieved the tang, and matched the stock to the thumb-slot. I also inspected the Mercury Reducer, and while I had the recoil pad removed, I drilled another hole and added a 3/4 pound Tungsten Bar to bring the rifle's weight up to 9 lbs 13 oz (it was 9 lbs 1 oz) When fully loaded the weight is 10 lbs 3 oz. The increase in weight will reduce the recoil by over 10%. The added weight also helped to balance the rifle's heavy 26" barrel. It was somewhat muzzle heavy before - but now balances exactly on the center of the action.

quote:

Originally posted by grandveneur:
http://www.zbrojovka-brno.cz/d...40-wir-uber-uns.aspx

It's IMHO a custom rifle from this Firm.

Why you can read Ceskoslovenska on the bolt head , i don't know , may be a older BRNO system because the Republic is finish since 1993.

Biter is may be the name of the proofer with the date of the proofing.

IMHO it's a german-like rifle , but not a rifle made in Germany.

The next problem is the cartridge because since the CIP normalisation you have 2 cartriges not similar in size , the 500 Jeffery and the 12,7x70 Schüler.


http://www.cartridgecollector.net/500-jeffery

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
I don't normally go out on a limb to disagree - though i don't think this is a ZB. BRNO RIFLE - as they make firearms commercially - and while biter and date make be maker, it's NOT proof marked / not how proofs are done

quote:

Originally posted by grandveneur:


The action is a old system from a VZ 24 Mauser rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by grandveneur:

The design of the stock , with a lateral reinforcement around the action , is a very old design , typical for a lot of old rifles made in Germany.

quote:

Originally posted by grandveneur:

500 Jeffery was the universal name in the nineties for all this cartridges before the CIP normalisation.

quote:

Originally posted by grandveneur:

May be it is a rifle made in USA , why in this cases the gold inlay's in the czech name of the firm and the old design of the stock for a rifle made 1998 ?

quote:

Originally posted by grandveneur:


The best way is to ask CZ/USA , may be they have a answer.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
i don't think it's from a military,
therefore vz24, i think it's from a BRNO 98,
which isn't a rework, rather it may be a commercial action, built for the trade -
many FNs and Mausers were made this way
with no crest on the front ring.
it precludes military contract. Looks more like brno 601 than military

quote:

Jeffeosso: I entirely suspect it's a US made 500 jeffe, on a brno action, with an oberndorf/model A type rifle as inspiration, built to "classic" (thank goodness no whiteline spacers) design, for iron sights shooting, and was made about late 1998, to look like a classic rifle....

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:
I've run across some rifles over time that were inspired by German and/or British designs....

Early in 20th century many gunsmiths in America either came from Germany or were descendants of German immigrants. So the roots were strong.

This particular rifle at least to me looks like a combination of ideas both German and American but isn't really either. Maybe the customer wanted a German style rifle and this is what the gunsmith came up with. The caliber choice was just what was requested.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
If the date stamp is German then it was built on April 12, 1998. If it's American it was built December 4, 1998.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson: .... pretty sure its an American made gun, .... the puter-together is a guy named Biter.... a low grade of California English, .... off color American black walnut, .... other marks that are out of order .... a poor hot blue at best .... its a bastardize English copy .... Just my opine ....

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I'm pretty sure its an American made gun, and my best guess it the puter-together is a guy named Biter...built in 1998 is somewhat of a clue, the cross bolts are Talleys, The rear sight is NECG, the front is a somewhat modified Lyman or Redfield, the wood isn't European, but is either a low grade of California English, or perhaps an off color American black walnut, with a terrible varnish finish, and no schnable may back up the other points?? and the checkering is American, I also, as someone else stated previously suspect of the Brno lettering, and the other marks that are out of order on the action, including some that were not quite ground out, add to all this the blue is not a rust blue but a poor hot blue at best... In general its a bastardize English copy..not a bad hunting gun by any means, but its not English. Just my opine..

Aut vincere aut mori

quote:

Originally posted by z1r:
The rear sight insert is from a Mk X/Whitworth rifle: http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/mk10...dbottomesssight.aspx The front ramp is a Williams streamlined.

quote:

Originally posted by grandveneur:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ALF:
Just read the article in Cartridge collector pages on the 500 Jeff and I respectfully disagree on some issues.

In original form Kynoch never loaded for the Jeffery though a drawing for the cartridge exists as submitted to the Birmingham proof house.

Further this the cartridge was not loaded with cordite as claimed on this web page.

Are you sure ? In the Gun Digest of 1960 you can read on a page about British Cartridges a load of 95gr Cordite for the 500 Jeffery.

Unlike Gibb's 505 ( preceded the Jeffery by 18 years ) which was exclusively a cordite round in original form. The Jeffery was a post cordite era cartridge and the 24 rifles built , 21 for Jeffery and 3 for Gibbs, were all proofed by the Birmingham Proof House , using flake powder as stamped on the rifle barrel ( The barrel has a short stepped portion the same circumference as the front ring )

I make this statement based on the fact that no example of a original Kynoch headstamped cartridge for the 500 Jeff exists !
A further point is that when Jeffery sold their original rifles they did so with Gecado (Dornheim) loaded ammo as this was the only ammo available at the time !

Fletcher Jamison the most famous 500 Jeffery user was unhappy with the Gecado ammo and actually pulled the bullets changed the powder charge and replaced the bullets. The Surviving ammo sold with his rifle has the plier marks on the bullets where he pulled the bullets.

There are also some pretty wild assumptions made about the rifle in question.

In the meantime i think so too that the rifle was built in the USA.

First off the action is a Brno VZ 24 military action with appropriate marks and banner
The bolt handle is a add on albeit a poor one.

As to the stock ? enough already said !

The biggest issue about this rifle is going to be the million dollar question:

How does it feed and more importantly what is the shootability of this rifle ?

The big problem with many 500's built by random builders is that they are uncontrollable ie the shooters hands loose contact with the gun during recoil and getting a 500 to feed in a standard mil action and standard mag box takes some skill and workmanship.

The rifles built on standard action and vertical magazine need spring clips to hold the cartriges , like the rifles of Schüler. Better you use a magnum action , the problem of the rebated rim will stay again.

Jeffery's original 500 was / is a big gun !

My rifle built 1998 on a Mauser magnum action by Ritterbusch in Germany is a light version with about 8 Ibs of weight without the scope. The recoil with my full load of a 535gr Bullet at 2400 ft/s is very strong. I can handle it but you must be in good shape !

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Further this the cartridge was not loaded with cordite as claimed on this web page.

....Jeffery's original 500 was / is a big gun !

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:Just a note on this rifle and its builder.
Based on my past research into the 500 Jeffery / Schuler connection I believe this to be a crude attempt at copying the Model 34 Schuler rifle.

The model 34 Schuler had the side panels and a double stack 2 round only magazine in 12.7mm x70 ......

quote:

Originally posted by buckstix:
".....Based on how the stampings look, I'm pretty sure the stamp "BITER", with the date stamp "12.4.1998" below it, must be the gunsmith who built the rifle....."