This has probably been asked before, but is there a big bore caliber who's recoil compares to a 12 ga. shooting stiff 3" shells, like Nitro-Mags? Is there a fair comparison or am I way out of the ballpark and maybe more in the medium bores? I do not currently own a big bore but would like to build a 375 someday and was just curious. I have never had an opportunity to shoot anything bigger than a 300 H&H.

Prewar, you are very close to the .375 and may have surpassed it. The weight of the gun has a lot to do with any recoil equation. A .375 270 grn in a 10 lb gun has about 39 ft lbs. of recoil. Hope this helps you out. Charlie

Prewar70, For the best "killing power" with the least recoil, duplicate the original 450/400 in the double rifle or the original 404 Jeffery IE. a 400 grain bullet at @ 2150fps.
For the least amount of "fuss and muss" get a 416 Mag in around a 9.5 to 10 lb rifle, and load 400 grain bullets to 2150fps.
For the best of the best of the best get a 450/400 double rifle.


I will never knock a 375 H&H... But it ain't no 400

Well, how did you like the .300? Recoil is something you can get used to. After a 30 round bench sesion w/ my .404j, my .338mag seems mild & my 7.25# .280 down right pleasent.
If you can easily handle the recoil of a .30-06 w/ 180gr loads, you can learn to handle a properly setup .375h&h (9# min. including scope). The comparison to a 12ga mag is only relevant if it's not a semiauto. I think a .375 is about like shooting mag buckshot from an 870pump.

Prewar,

The .375 H&H is a wonderful cartridge and not at all unpleasant to shoot unless your rifle is a light-weight. My Ruger M77/MkII .375 fully loaded and with scope/rings weighs in at exactly 11 pounds. It's recoil, to me at least, is a pussycat even off the bench - I'd guess it feels like firing a skeet load in a Rem 870? (I do wish this rifle was about a pound lighter though, it's my ONLY critisizm about the Ruger RSM otherwise it's an awesome rifle).

My .458 Win M77 with full power 500gr loads is really not bad either (9.5 lbs loaded) even off the bench - I'd say it's sort of like shooting an 870 with 2.75" heavy field loads perhaps? That rifle does have a good recoil pad on it though and the rifle fits me like a glove - which is very important by the way in how a rifle's recoil will feel. Grip and mounting of the rifle are also really important obviously - snug it into your shoulder firmly and get your cheek down firmly onto the stock and you'll have no trouble.

I know there are some rifles that will rattle your teeth no matter what you do, but the recoil in the .375 H&H and .458 Win are not bad at all IMHO. It's something you can deal with if you just get used to it with some practice and learn to RELAX and not worry about the recoil, just ride with it.

tip number 1
NO SCOPES until you are pretty at ease with a big bore

#2 .. a stoeger coach gun, compared to a lott or big, feels like a maiden's caress....

anyone that tells you a light 12, with hot bullets, is like a 375 + is trying to get you to understand that you CAN shoot bigstuff...

jeffe

I appreciate all the replies and that really helps give me an idea. The 300 H&H was nice to shoot even though it's a vintage Model 70 with a steel buttplate. I have always heard references to a 12 gauge and I've shot plenty of 3" out of my old 870 so it's good to hear I'm not too far off with a properly weighted 375. Right now a 9 or 10lb rifle isn't too much of an issue. Of course that might change later in life but by then I should be used to the recoil.

Go shoot that 3" 12 ga. off a bench, then compare them..Thats an eye opener...I think a 12 ga. and a 416 are close...

Can I ask the question this way. What 12 guage load would be like a 300 grain 375 H&H? Thanks.

I think most people can learn to shoot a 375 H&H. My wife shoots & hunts with my 375 H&H and she can shoot it as well as I can. The recoil of the 375 is slow enough (not a fast recoil like you can get from a 338) that you can roll with it. I wouldn't worry about the 375 beating you up - it won't!

I don't have a good comparison with shot gun loads, but a "proper" 375 (that is one of correct weight and set up right) will not hurt you even off the bench. I love my 375s, and cant imagine being without with at least one! To me they represent the best combination of "big bore" and user friendliness in a rifle. The 416s (and I like my Rigbys too) are a step above and you will notice the recoil difference. You need to try out different rifle/calber combinations to see what you are comfortable with. I can't imagine someone buying a 375 (again properly set up) and being dissapointed. The 375 is a great classic round and it has earned it's reputation.

John

MHC_TX,

"The recoil of the 375 is slow enough (not a fast recoil like you can get from a 338) that you can roll with it. I wouldn't worry about the 375 beating you up - it won't!"

That's a good way of putting it... My .338 Ruger M77/MkII honestly felt more abusive off the bench with 250gr loads than my .375 with 300gr/2500fps loads. Now my .375 IS a bit heavier on the scale, but the .338 was around 9 pounds I'd guess and it just knocked the snot out of me for some reason. The .375 on the bench is really no big deal at all.

Leo M,

Ref your question above... I'd say a standard high base 2.75" shell in an 8 lbs Rem 870 is pretty similar.

I traded for a CZ550 Safari Magnum (hogsback stock) in 375 Hoot & Holler some months back. I dreaded that first shot, but a huge grin appeared on my ugly mug after touching it off that first time. It certainly pushes a fair amount, but it don't belt you, it's not "snappy" like a .300 mag. It doesn't punish no where near as much as my .45-70 1895 Marlin with "enthusiastic" loads. After shooting a .375 H&H of proper weight, you will be hooked!

I second BlackHawk1's observation that a 375H&H is real nice compared to the fully loaded Marlin with a 400gr moving at 1700fps or so.
Cheers...
Con

I guess I always thought those big 3 & 3-1/2" 12 ga shells were about the worst thing a man could ever have to shoot. The guns are light for caliber and it seems to me that shot shells, though slower in velocity, reach their peak velocity a lot faster than big bore rifles. Maybe that's not right but they just slap the hell out me. If you can handle a steady diet of the those shotshells I wouldn't worry much about getting a big rifle!

I second BlackHawk1 that a 300 Mag certainly draws your attention.

I thought the 300 Win Mag to be nastier recoil-wise (I have to admit that the pad on my Tikka M65 is really lousy on a high power rifle) than my 458 Winnie.

Now when I finally got my 340 Wby I realize that it is more "unpleasant" than the other two.

Do not want to think about how bad the good 'ol 378 Wby must be! A heavier bullet than the 340, with higher velocity. Must be a bad combination.

Not saying that I wouldn't like to try the 378!

^^I am torn between the 378 and the 375 H&H...not sure which to buy, but the seemingly legendary recoil of the 378 is making me lean more towards the H&H.

fusino: you always have the 375 Wby and the 375 RUM which offer interesting alternatives between the H&H and the 378.

^^I'm reluctant to go with the 375 RUM or the 375 Wby because of the newness of the RUM and the only recent re-introduction of the 375 Wby. Am I justified at all in this paranoia?

I'd say you'd go fine with all of them.

The 378 does seem to be a tad "extreme". But I haven't tried it so I really shouldn't say too much.

IMO you should go with the H&H or the 375 Wby. Just my 'ol two cents.

I guess I could see an advatange in the RUM in that it headspaces on the shoulder and the rest don't. Maybe increases accuracy to a certain degree. It's a tough decision, but somebody's gotta make it =)

I won't complain about having to decide on a new rifle...it's a nice problem to have.

It's definitely a nice problem to encounter!

I will own a 378 before I die. I've been dreaming of one for the last three years. Practically unbeatable.

Any man who can handle a 378 without recoil-suppressor has my devoted respect!

If you can't handle it - don't use it!

fusino,exabit the .378 WBY.has more recoil than my .470 n.e. and may have as much as the .500 n.e. I am a WBY. fan and own several i just could not see the recoil increase over a .375 for the velocity gained. A larger bore with heavier bullets will get the job done quicker. Take the Rem. Ultra in .300, it only surpasses the .300 WBY. by at most 150 fps, and the recoil is more than a .375. Doesnt make any sense in my book, or others who understand return for investment. Thats what i think. Charlie

^^Charles, thanks for the perspective. I have never shot anything above 30-06, so I am out of my element to a certain degree. If the recoil of the 378 is comparable to a 500 N.E. I would definitely say it's not worth it. A .416 Remington or something would probably be a better choice.

I might have been a bit over board on the .500 but take my word for it in a 9.5 lb. gun the .378 will ring your bell The .375 H&H has taken and will continue to take any thing on this planet period, and with less recoil than any of the .416 bore will. If you hunting for deer to brownies you wont have too much or not enough gun with the tried and true .375 H&H. I even hunted squirels with mine. (.36 cal. pistol ball 7 to 10 grains of unique and fill the case with pillow ticking we used to call kapok, crimp the case mouth over the ball). it will hit at p.o.a.. to 50 yds or so. The .375 also has the unique ability to put 270 and 300 grains full power loads into the same p.o.a.. Hope this helps you out. Charlie

Yeah I was thinking more 10+ lbs for a big bore. Anything under 10, I would think would be on the light side of things

I had a 378 for many years and just recently sold it. I liked the gun and it shot well but I can to the conclusion that for more fire power I wanted a bigger caliber and bullets.

The closest I have ever come to getting "scope eye" was with my 378 shooting off a bench..not being use to the gun...it slide off my shoulder just missed my head, thankfully!

I meet another hunter, in the Selous, last September shooting a 378.. he had a difficult time with that rifle..showing not one or two but three imprinted rings just over his eye..

It is hard to beat a 375 H&H...it works and recoils is hardly an issue. The 416 are a notch above the 375...I have loaded my 416 Rigby to 2600+ with 370 grain North Fork Cup Points and I am unable to tell much of a difference from my 458 Lott, 500 grains @ 2300fps in terms of recoil.

If I was in the market for a 375 cal...it would be either a 375 H&H or a 375 Weatherby...

quote:

I meet another hunter, in the Selous, last September shooting a 378.. he had a difficult time with that rifle..showing not one or two but three imprinted rings just over his eye

Reminds me of a New York deer hunt I went on years ago. I heard a lot of shooting and pretty soon this guy comes stumbling down the hill with his face covered in blood. Scared the hell out of me since I thought he was shot but it turned out he had three beauties right above his right eye.
As for the 375 H&H I don't think they're that much of an issue to shoot. I'd agree that if you can handle 12ga slugs you can handle the 375. To me even the 458 it's any more than the 12ga. The 416s however start to get my attention.

^^what caliber was the fellow in New York shooting for deer that cut him so badly?

It was a 12ga pump and he was shooting 3"mags as I recall but don't remember the make of the shotgun.It was in the allegheny state park which is part of the allegheny national forest extending from Pennsylvania. Used to be a lot of deer in there and was limited to shotguns with slugs.

fusino-I have a 338,378,416 rigby and have recently sold a 500 nitro double(new 500 due any day).I have taken a buff in the NT of Australia and a Cape Buff in Zim with the 378.The 378 is a unique beast-with the right projectiles it can do things that no other cartridge can do-but recoil is very real.I think the problem is that most guns are just too
light.A 378 that an ordinary man could hope to shoot with even a modicum of accuracy would need to weight about 12lbs IMO.

these responses also helped me. I'm wanting either a 375 H&H/weatherby/or RUM. to date the hardest kicking gun I have fired was my 3-4lb single shot 12 gauge with 3 in mags. I have a stock marlin guild gun and firing buffalo bores 430 grs at 1925fps doesn't kick nearly as much as my 3-4 lb 12 gauge. I can handle the 12 qauge without much pain or no pain with a sweater on. Do you think I'ld handle the 375 H&H fine? how about a 375 RUM?(in a 8-9 lb rifle)
I know no one can tell me specificly what I can handle, but am looking for opinions based on the descriptions i gave

I'd bet your single shot 12 weighs more than you think. Try puttting it on a postal scale. My bet is it weighs six pounds. Even so any gun can be a real kicker - relative to its guage or calibre if it is light or doesn't fit the shooter. I bought my son a little switch barrel single shot with 22lr and .410 barrels. I shot the thing with the .410 barrels and the std 2 1/2" shells and was suprised at the recoil!

A 375H&H in about a 9lb or 9 1/2lb rifle is not unpleasant. For comparison, I find shooting a 7 1/4lb 12 ga off the bench with 2 3/4" slugs much more unpleasant. A 375H&H shot standing offhand is no issue. Shoot at game and recoil won't be noticed. Recoil is mild enough that I don't loose sight of the game through the scope when I shoot.

I see no need for more velocity than the 375H&H offers.

JPK

Also the 375 is much more of a push then you find with the hotter cartridges. Not bad at all. I have a 375 Model 70 which has less felt recoil then my 338 Win Mag Tikka. Granted the Tikka is a few pounds lighter.

quote:

Originally posted by gohip2000:
these responses also helped me. I'm wanting either a 375 H&H/weatherby/or RUM. to date the hardest kicking gun I have fired was my 3-4lb single shot 12 gauge with 3 in mags. I have a stock marlin guild gun and firing buffalo bores 430 grs at 1925fps doesn't kick nearly as much as my 3-4 lb 12 gauge. I can handle the 12 qauge without much pain or no pain with a sweater on. Do you think I'ld handle the 375 H&H fine? how about a 375 RUM?(in a 8-9 lb rifle)
I know no one can tell me specificly what I can handle, but am looking for opinions based on the descriptions i gave

I started out with a 300 weatherby. Fired 500 rounds and bought a 378 weatherby. Give yourself
200 rounds (with no muzzle break) or so and you will start to get use to the recoil. On the bench just have the rifle high enough to have the recoil go straight back into your shoulder. Its a fine rifle. I'm taking my 378 to Zambia in August for lion. You will get use to the recoil. Here's what my 460 weatherby off the bench prints @75 yards:


My point for the pic is that a heavy recoiling rifle can be managed. After you get use to the 378 I bet you move upwards.
Good luck whatever you choose. ..steve

quote:

Originally posted by Prewar70:
This has probably been asked before, but is there a big bore caliber who's recoil compares to a 12 ga. shooting stiff 3" shells, like Nitro-Mags? Is there a fair comparison or am I way out of the ballpark and maybe more in the medium bores? I do not currently own a big bore but would like to build a 375 someday and was just curious. I have never had an opportunity to shoot anything bigger than a 300 H&H.

Here are some approximate recoil energies for various loads in an 8-pound gun:

1 oz @ 1200 fps: 17.5 ft-lb
11/8 oz @ 1150 fps: 18 ft-lb
11/8 oz @ 1200 fps: 21 ft-lb
11/8 oz @ 1310 fps: 26 ft-lb
11/4 oz @ 1440 fps: 38 ft-lb
13/8 oz @ 1440 fps: 44 ft-lb
2 oz @ 1300 fps: 71 ft-lb

Compare to the following rifle data;(all figures are approximate)

.375 H&H Mag. (270 at 2690) 9.0 39.8
.375 H&H Mag. (300 at 2530) 9.0 44.0
.375 Wby. Mag. (270 at 2800) 9.5 41.0
.375 Wby. Mag. (300 at 2700) 9.5 48.5
.416 Rem. Mag. (400 at 2400) 10.0 58.5
.416 Rigby (400 at 2650) 10.0 67.2
.416 Wby. Mag. (400 at 2700) 10.5 81.6
.416 Wby. Mag. (400 at 2700) 11.3 74.7

Maybe this will help you. Lawdog

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
I'd bet your single shot 12 weighs more than you think. Try puttting it on a postal scale. My bet is it weighs six pounds. Even so any gun can be a real kicker - relative to its guage or calibre if it is light or doesn't fit the shooter. I bought my son a little switch barrel single shot with 22lr and .410 barrels. I shot the thing with the .410 barrels and the std 2 1/2" shells and was suprised at the recoil!

A 375H&H in about a 9lb or 9 1/2lb rifle is not unpleasant. For comparison, I find shooting a 7 1/4lb 12 ga off the bench with 2 3/4" slugs much more unpleasant. A 375H&H shot standing offhand is no issue. Shoot at game and recoil won't be noticed. Recoil is mild enough that I don't loose sight of the game through the scope when I shoot.

I see no need for more velocity than the 375H&H offers.

JPK

actually the shot gun is a $60 shotgun and I cannot find a brand name or anything on the rifle. So I weighed it on the only scale I had(a non-digital foot scale). the foot scale is pretty accurate and I balanced the rifle on a block of wood so all the weight was on the center of the scale and subtracted the weight of the wood block. it was tetering between 3-4 lbs. No one around my residence seems willing to shoot the thing a second time. I can assure you it is not above 5 pounds. my 500 mosberg is a pussy cat compared to this mystery brand shotgun, but anyways, I think I'll be fine with a 375 H&H, the other rifle I want to go with the 375 is a 458 win or lott.
and thanks for the info guys

Gohip2000,

If it really comes in at 5lbs or under you'll think the 8 3/4lb to 9 1/2lb 375H&H is a pussycat too. Shoot your Mossburg 500 with some 3" slugs and you'll have an aproximation.

The 458wm offers quite a bit more recoil. But recoil is something you can learn to become accustomed to. When you gwt your 458wm or Lott you can build up a tolerance by starting with light loads and working up. When you're used to the full house loads out of the 458wm or Lott your 375H&H will be a "light rifle"!

JPK

The recoil of an over under shotgun shooting those 3 1/2" 2 1/4oz turkey loads has got some recoil. It almost feels like my 375 H&H shooting 300 gr bullets.

Prewar 70

If you handle a 300 H&H, you will have no difficulty whatever with a 375 H&H. THe 375 H&H gives a "push" against the shoulder. I have shot a 12 ga. using hi base loads in pass shooting at ducks in Canada (where they came in suddenly over the tree tops) and shooting almost overhead where the shotgun really was slamming down on my shoulder -and I can tell you that the 375 H&H is easy compared to that!