I am looking into getting a new rifle and planning for a hunt in the next 2-3years for cape buffalo.

I am wanting to get a few details and some opinions from experienced people on the following cartridges, namely the .404 Jeffrey, .416 Remington and the .416 Rigby.

I know they are all very similar ballistically but could someone supply a url (or paste details in a reply) listing the ballistic details for a comparison between the three cartridges.

Any opinions and views from anyone that has experience with all three would also be great. In particular there performance on buff and what bullets are the best to use.

Thanks.

You can find reloading details at:

http://www.accuratereloading.com/reload.html

Just scroll down to whatever caliber you want. I wish I could offer some educated opinions, but I am not yet a member of the big bore club.

Thanks fusino.

Thought it might be on here somewhere, only just joined recently and havent had a chance to have a good look around

I forgot to mention i was also a bit in the dark about how much ammunition costs for each of these calibres, and how easily available it is in general.

I know CZ produce 404 but are there any other bigish arms manufacturers that produce them as a stanard calibre around the Ruger - CZ price range??

^^ www.Midwayusa.com carries most calibers of ammunition all the way up to 700 nitro, so you could probably get a decent idea of price of ammo off of there. Obviously you might not want to buy from them, but just to get an idea. Of course if you plan on buying in retail locations, you'll probably pay a lot more than online. From what I can gather, unless you're rich it's a lot more affordable to reload the big bores.

The 416 rem is the cheapest to feed. In bulk, brass costs look like:
416 rem @.40/ea
404 Jef @1.50/ea
416 Rig @1.90/ea

bullets cost what bullets cost, as do powder and primers. Of course if factory ammo is a consideration, then the Rem wins hands down for availibility and price.

All would be great choices for buff and premium bullets should be used.

The CZ is a good starting point for guns offered in 404 and rigby. A model 70 can be had over the counter in 416rem.

You really can't go wrong with any of them. As similar as they all are, I sugget that you pick the gun you like best and look at your caliber options.

PS - I've owned 1 416 rem & 2 rigbys, but no 404.

Newster, a few comments.

If you want to go with a 400 grain bullet at 2400 fps from all 3 cartridges, then the 416 Rigby will give the lowest pressure, the 404 Jeffery will be second lowest, and the 416 Rem will give the HIGHEST pressures. Some 416 Rem will not reach 2400 fps without high pressure, but some will no problem.

If you want a regular Mauser or Model 70 size action then a .416 Rem or 404 Jeffery are your only choices. The 416 Rigby requires a larger action.

If you are going to build a traditional, fine rifle, resale will be best with the .404 Jeffery judging the market at the present time.

I remember reading not too long ago that the .416s are not doing well at all as far as sales go. As such some manufacturers may be moving away from them? Is there any truth to this? Sorry I can't be more specific about what I read...I'll try to find it again.

quote:

Originally posted by Nevster:
Thanks fusino.

Thought it might be on here somewhere, only just joined recently and havent had a chance to have a good look around

I forgot to mention i was also a bit in the dark about how much ammunition costs for each of these calibres, and how easily available it is in general.

I know CZ produce 404 but are there any other bigish arms manufacturers that produce them as a stanard calibre around the Ruger - CZ price range??

Nevster

If you want to go with the classic Safari caliber it is the 404

If you want the pretender in the minds of a few it is the 416 Rigby

If you want the new then the 416 REM.

Animals won't know the difference.

Living in Britain I would guess that either of the 416s would be hard to get.

speaking from loads of shooting,
get a LOTT and load it down to practice

cheapest brass
cheapest practice bullets
cheapest premium bullets

and BEST bullet selection of all the big bores (over 40)

the 404, like a 16 cyclinder caddy, is one way to make 400 at 2300fps (that's it's load)
the rigby CAN be loaded hotter than it's 2400....

and the rem can make 2400 within it's saami spec....

as long as you don't build it on a turn of the last century action, reasonable pressure is not a deciding factor...

as the LOTT is the most popular PH rifle, right behind the 375, and it's loaded to identical presures as the 416 rem... and the 270 win

jeffe

458 Lott

A very flexable cartridge. The range of loadings avalible is hard to beat. It will swat anything that walks with authority, and can also be down loaded so that a youngster can safely shoot it. As jeffe stated, the easiest on the wallet to feed. Recoil is not sever even with full house loads. A good recoil pad on a rifle weighing 9 1/2 - 10 lbs, works out just fine.

Hog Killer

I bought a 416Rigby for these reasons:

1. Bottleneck case= easy to reload.(Lott is a straightwalled case which means 3 dies)
2. No magnum band= easy to reload.
3. Low pressure= less chance of pressure problems in warm parts of the world. (for this same reason I would prefer a 300H&H for a 300Win)
CZ makes the caliber and CZ is cheap to buy.
The down sides are: 1. Thick case means less cartridges in the magazine.
2.
The 404 is a good choise too. (I wouldnt

Sorry the previous post was entered before it was done.

I bought a 416Rigby for these reasons:

1. Bottleneck case= easy to reload.(Lott is a straightwalled case which means 3 dies)
2. No magnum band= easy to reload.
3. Low pressure= less chance of pressure problems in warm parts of the world. (for this same reason I would prefer a 300H&H for a 300Win)
4. CZ makes the caliber and CZ is cheap to buy.

The down sides are:
1. the 416Rigby has a thick case. Thick case means less cartridges in the magazine.
2.....???
The 404 is a good choise too, but CZ doesn't make a gun for it (at least not ovewr here)

Niels

Niels,

Actually, CZ is indeed producing .404 Jeff rifles now as well as the 505 Gibbs and I believe the .450 Rigby. They cost a bit more that the other 550s (I think around 1800 US dollars). But at least you have the option now.

Thanks for the advice guys.

I see your point about the Lott, it does seem considerably cheaper (ammo wise) and more versatile too when compared the others.

I take it the Lott loaded with a lighter bullet and more mv, shoots quite flat out to longer distances for plains game hunting??

As for being able to get the rifles in the UK i dont think it will be too hard to get hold of any of these calibres as there are a few gunsmiths who deal in Rugers and CZ rifles. It will just be getting the licensing authorities to let me own a .458 or other big bore that will be the hard part.

Thanks for your help again.

I have shot the majority of my buffalo with a 416 Rem and a 404 Jefferys and a few with a 416 Rigby...I prefer the 416 Remington, and 404 Jefferys as they can be had in an overall smaller, trimmer and lighter rifle.

I have to say that it seems to me I have consistently gotten quicker kills with the 404 Jefferys, and yes I know they are all equal on paper...

I have an excellent 416 Rigby, made on an Reminton Enfield action, with all the bells and whistles for sale...actually I sold it and got it back because it didn't have a serial number, It turns out it was under the scope mount as per all Enfields...I am installing steel cross bolts and I tweeked the feeding, as it had a glitch due to the extractor, an easy fix..quarter rib, barrel band swivel and front sight, 3 leaf..leather covered pad, slow rust blue, Krieger barrel, cocks on the opening, all the bells and whistles, accurate rifle....price is right...

I had a .404jeffery made & love it. Cost to load all three is about the same, really. Brass is a little more w/ the Rigby but how much are you going to shoot a .42 anyway. Bullets are a bit harder to come buy in .404 as is ammo. Loaded ammo for all three is ridiculously priced anyway. Pick the rifle platform you want & then get that cartridge. There really isn't any diff. between the three. The exc. CZ comes in all three.

Get a 458 Lott for the reasons Jeffeosso and Hog Killer lay out. In the Ruger RSM, is is a stellar combination. Happy hunting!
Best, Starcharvski.

quote:

Originally posted by Niels:
I bought a 416Rigby for these reasons:

1. Bottleneck case= easy to reload.(Lott is a straightwalled case which means 3 dies)

I don't see your point here. Sure, you need to use the mouth openener on brand new brass. But once you've shot a case in the gun, you don't need to expand the mouth any more.

At least, that's my experience with the 458 Winnie, which should be the same deal?

I have shot all three and recomend the 416 remington. Have shot buffalo with the rigby and the remington and havent seen any difference in killing ability. The remington is cheaper to feed and you got to shoot it to be good with it.

Really guys, cost of shooting a .416rm, .404 or .416 Rigby is pretty much the same, 5c more for powder & .50c more for brass @ the high end, big deal. Besides, if you can't afford the cost of components, you'll never get good enough to shoot a big bore . Buy the RIFLE that you like & go w/ what ever cartridge it's made for. If going custom, well, it;s got to be a .404 Jeffery!

.416 Remington is tough to beat. Reloading is certainly less expensive but, if you are lazy like I am, you can buy HSM ammo loaded with Hornady softs or solids for about $35-$40 per box. That, my friends, is pretty cheap.

JMHO,

JohnTheGreek

THe 416 Remington is hard to beat. I own and hunt with a Rigby, but the choice was one of taste and not pure facts. The Rem can be had in a lighter, trimmer action and it is MUCH cheaper to shoot.
Forget the pressure alarums. There might have been some problems initially, but the 416 is of no higher pressure than an 06. Lots of experienced hunters ( like Ray, Allen & others) use the round extensively in Africa with ZERO pressure problems. The Rigby can be loaded hotter, but 2400 fps is plenty for what you want. Lastly, the Rigby's action is HUGE, so in my opinion, if I have to have that big of an action, might as well go with a bigger cartridge all together. Stick with the 416 Rem. jorge

I'll nominate the .416 Remington, and for all of the reasons previously mentioned.

While it's true that it does operate at higher pressure levels than the .416 Rigby, that reality has to be taken, I think, with a grain of salt. The truth is, the .416 Rem. doesn't produce higher pressures than many other cartridges that are commonly used in Africa, and I have yet to hear of anyone actually having a pressure problem with this cartridge while on safari.

You can look the numbers up for yourself, but the .416 Rem. doesn't turn up higher pressures than the .300 Wby., .338 Win., .300 Win., .270 Win., .300 H&H, .375 H&H, .458 Win. Mag., etc. All of these cartridges are comonly used on safari year-in and year-out, but no one utters a peep about pressure problems with any of them. Turn the discussion to .416 rem. Mag. and all of a sudden pressure is an issue. I find that preoccupation totally odd........

AD

Allen is right on the pressure issue, thats a croc, I have used the 416 Remington for years in Africa without a problem...

Today with the advent of the .404 in a CZ and the companies that are coming fourth with 404 Ammo and brass, I see it as a equally good caliber...As a matter of fact it is easier to get 404 brass than it is to get 416 Remington brass...I shoot both and Remington brass can be very hard to come by from time to time. I solved this problem by buying a case of it (2000 rds.) that should keep me shooting if Remington makes a 416 RUM, in which case I have no doubt they will quit offering 416 Rem cases, thats the way those folks work....

Thanks for all the input guys.

Out of the rifles i have been considering it was really between the CZ or Ruger. I really like the look of the Ruger. I have been tempted by the talk of a 458 Lott especially since CZ and Ruger both produce it as a standard chambering.

I notice that both CZ and Ruger offer only the 416 Rigby and not the 416 Remington. What other manufacturers offer the 416 Remington as a standard chambering in the price range of CZ-Ruger???

I am not really keen on most of the US brands im afraid. I really dont like the Browning and Remington rifles I have used in the past (admittaly not big bore), so it would have to exclude those

Rigby rules!

FYI, Atkinson's rifle is really nice....I've seen it! Stout rifle!

JW