.

500 grains said it earlier, and i believe he is right on this. Early cartridges were not produced to todays high standards. Cartridges were left in pants pockets for weeks after being rained, sweated on,crossing streams etc.Any of those conditions will have its effect on the main charge .I have no field experience with the cartrdige, but many who i consider experts do and thats good enough for me. Charlie

Alf,
You simply overlook the fact that Internet Buffalo exceed the Sherman Tank, they weigh 3000 lbs. have armour, and the soul of the devil, filled with hate and feed upon foolish clients who dare challange their right to life, liberty and the pursuit of female buffalo...

The buffalo that you know live for 3 reasons, eat, sleep and shall we say breed, not the same animal at all. these simple creatures run from hunters, Lions and elephants and seek shade in the hot part of the day, they can be killed with spear, bow, poison, snare, 308, 8x57 and up...

Just having some fun, got bored I guess, but the buff is not a Sherman tank, IF the first shot is properly placed he dies just like any other animal....The 404 will do that every time.

Amen Ray, you are truely the Yoda of the African hunter.

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
Amen Ray, you are truely the Yoda of the African hunter.

Ditto Fred.
In my misguided youth, I though the .416 Rigby was king of the hill. Now I know it is the .404 Jeffery that is tops in every way.

It was first in appearance in 1905 as an effective DGR bolt action cartridge.

It is still first in function too.

Yoda says, get a .404 Jeffery.

May The Force be with you, Jeffery Knights.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
Amen Ray, you are truely the Yoda of the African hunter.

Ditto Fred.
In my misguided youth, I though the .416 Rigby was king of the hill. Now I know it is the .404 Jeffery that is tops in every way.

It was first in appearance in 1905 as an effective DGR bolt action cartridge.

It is still first in function too.

Yoda says, get a .404 Jeffery.

May The Force be with you, Jeffery Knights.

YODA rocks!

I usually lurk, but I just have to ask this one.

Much has been said about how older ammo did not live up to it's pre-war ballistics when run through modern chronys. This is not the first time I have heard this.

Is it possible that part of the reason the antique ammo seems so anemic is because it is antique?

Does anyone know what the long term effects of 40+ years of storage would have on old cordite or smokeless rounds?

Must be 40 years seems to have stuck in my mind as the tops you should expect out of any powder or primer or loaded ammo if it were kept under climate control. Much less if subjected to abuse.

As for me, I would be sure to shoot it or burn it or consign to the collector stock before 20 years had passed.

I have two old boxes of Parker Hale 404 Rimless ammo loaded with 400 grain solids. I believe this ammo was supposed to have been loaded by Norma.

Anyway, my 404 Jeffery is currently under construction. When it is finished in the next few months, I will shoot some of this old ammo and record the velocities from my chrono. I am expecting 2,150 fps, but who knows.

My intention is to load my 404 Jeffery to 2,250fps +/- with a 400 grain Woodliegh (soft & solid) and the 400 grain Swift A-Frame. This should be an effective load with low recoil.

Tim

Ray is right in this aspect of killing shots on buff. How many of them have been taken with old "under powered " guns when Africa was being settled. Some one once said the .303 has taken more African game than all the American calibers put together.Although they fall quickly when hit in the right spot, i'll still take the edge of modern big bores when you stuble into them. I do belive Mr. Murphy acts as a tour gudie for them some times. They are notorious for their bad behavior if suprised or worse, wounded. Many graves have been dug when Mbogo or Nyati has decided its time to play " Here i come ready or not" Charlie

Tm, you'll find a 400gr @ 2250fps managable, but hardly low recoiling. Send me (2) of your precious PH.404 & I'll chrono them for you. Better yet, come on up to Tehachapi w/ me & shoot mine. My dad grills a good steak.

At one time I lusted for a 404 and while talking to a hunter he suggested the 425 express,same 423 bullet as the 404 on a 300mag case. 2400fps with a 400 gr easily and it's simple to build and cases cheap to make. As mine is made to carry mostly it's 7 1/2 lbs so I load it down a tad ,350barnes X at 2375 ,great rig for moose too. Iliamna Jim

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
Tm, you'll find a 400gr @ 2250fps managable, but hardly low recoiling. Send me (2) of your precious PH.404 & I'll chrono them for you. Better yet, come on up to Tehachapi w/ me & shoot mine. My dad grills a good steak.

Fred,

Yes, I would like to chrono some of that old ammo in both your 404 and mine, you go first though I need to call Laszlo to see how my rifle is coming along, can't wait.

On my last hunt, I used my Ruger RSM77 .416 Rigby loaded with 400 grain bullets at just over 2,400 fps. Given that the Ruger is a pretty heavy gun, I would expect the 404J with 400 grain bullets at 2,200 to 2,300fps would feel the same in my planned lighter gun.

On my last trip to the range, I have been shooting my Pre-64 M70 .458 WM with 500 grain bullets just under 2,200 fps. After a few more of these sessions, I may just settle on hunting DG with my 9.3x62 with 286 grain bullets at 2,350 fps and keep the bigger guns in the safe

I actually would really like to get up to Tehachapi with you. It has been very tuff for me to get away recently with our new baby (3 mos.) and our 2.5 yr old. However, I am most likely taking the family to England in late June, early July and they will stay there for a couple of weeks after I come home. Let's try to plan a trip in 2nd week of July if possible. I just have to push Laszlo to get my rifle to a point where we can shoot it by then. Anyway, I would like to make a plan to do it.

Right now I'm sitting on 40 rounds of the old PH 400grn solids, 100 pieces of new Norma 404 brass, two boxes of Woodliegh 400 grain softs, two boxes of Woodliegh 400 grain solids, and a box of 400 grain Swift A-Frames. I will have to start loading some up with Varget and RL-15.

Tim

Tim, just give me a buzz, July sounds fine. We'll just do a day trip. The range is private, it's never too crowded.
Yeah, you shoot a .458wm off the bench much & a .404j seems mild recoiling.

The batch of ammo that was faulty in the Marsh book was

21.L.H/S

Although the maker was not named, I'm sure with the vast knowledge on this site. I'm sure someone can come up with the maker.

Thanks

Jerry