Having just booked a cow ele hunt in 2009, I'm considering a new DGR. I have a 470 double Searcy that I'll be using, and currently my magazine rifle is an HS precision in 375 ultra. The HS is a push feed, and considering grains against tons I am finding an excuse for a new rifle.
At this time, I'm thinking 416 Rigby, but haven't ruled out 404 Jef or 458 Lott. The 458 might be a little stiff recoil wise, and bullet selection is much broader for 416 vs 404, but I can get 450 grainers for the Jeffery.
416 just seems more versatile, somehow. Thoughts?
I'd like a Mauser type action. I'm looking at the CZ, perhaps with some modifications by American Hunting Rifles. Anyone have any experience with their work?
I haven't ruled out the Ruger, and might consider something fancier as an investment, if I can get a fair deal on somthing used.
Any thoughts, expert or otherwise are appreciated.

Your Searchy 470cal would never let you down, so getting I would say a .416Rigby either Ruger or the CZ is a good choice. The .416 rigby can also be used as a semi longrange huntingrifle.
If i were you, I would think "versatility". I don`t think the Lott has anything over the .470 and just in case..the .416rigby can be loaded with 500 grain bullets safely to +2300 Ft/sec or a 240 grain Impala bullet to +3200Ft/Sec.
The .416 Rigby is also very flexible regarding powders in case you should reload. I guess I have been "called"...hahaha

Thanks for the input. I love it when my preconceived notions are supported.
Who makes 500 grainers for 416? The biggest I've seen are 450gr.

quote:

Who makes 500 grainers for 416?

I think Jens is dreaming.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

Who makes 500 grainers for 416?

I think Jens is dreaming.

jens is dreaming allright....but not about 500 grain bullets in .416 cal. Jens is dreaming for a nice SLE .465 H&H.
Oh...I think Hawk makes 500 grain bullets, because jens has some. Maybe the Hawk were made wrong and ended up at 500 grain only hawbullets will know??

Hey, you can't pretend that lead bullets are real bullets!

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Hey, you can't pretend that lead bullets are real bullets!

Your right. Hawk bullet doesn`t really count here. They are not made for DG...to poor of quality. Woodleigh from australia makes the 450grainers, which I will be getting next time.
I most say my .416rigby shoots accurate enough with hawks 500 grainers. So if someone would make a 500grain premium bullet, the potential is there.

Hey Will!
Your right. Hawk bullet doesn`t really count here. They are not made for DG...too poor of quality. Woodleigh from australia makes the 450grainers, which I will be getting next time.
I most say my .416rigby shoots accurate enough with hawks 500 grainers. So if someone would make a 500grain premium bullet, the potential is there.

well, you already have a .475 chunker.. make another one... grab a ruger mkII, and rebarrel to 470AR .. you can load to the same power as your 470NE, or all the way to 2400, and shoot 400gr CHEAP pistol bullets

jeffe

Will,

if the first shot with a lead bullet load from my 45-70 Sharps hadn't killed him (1600+lb), ditto for the first shot with a lead bullet from my M1886 50-110 hadn't killed him (2100+lb) the two bison who had one of those close encounters of the first kind with my cast bullets would probably contradict your opinion vigorously. I will make you a sporting offer, I will bet my 550 Gibbs with my 750gr hard cast bullet at a tidy 2350fps MV will shoot thru the shoulders of a cape buffalo or thru an elephants skull. By this time next year we will know. Thousands of Elephant and Rhino were killed with hardened lead bullets in the 19th century. If you have a 416 or 45 caliber rifle I will send you some of my gas checked beauties and you can report back on penetration VS any jacketed. My 550gr 458 GC bullets cost me about a dime and a minute of my time to cast, seat the GC, size, and lubricate. I'd put a gentlemanly wager that they will penetrate as deeply as those fancy new $4 apiece Noslers.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

quote:

Thousands of Elephant and Rhino were killed with hardened lead bullets in the 19th century.

Lots were flatened by lead round balls from smoothbore BP clunkers too.....

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Will,

if the first shot with a lead bullet load from my 45-70 Sharps hadn't killed him (1600+lb), ditto for the first shot with a lead bullet from my M1886 50-110 hadn't killed him (2100+lb) the two bison who had one of those close encounters of the first kind with my cast bullets would probably contradict your opinion vigorously. I will make you a sporting offer, I will bet my 550 Gibbs with my 750gr hard cast bullet at a tidy 2350fps MV will shoot thru the shoulders of a cape buffalo or thru an elephants skull. By this time next year we will know. Thousands of Elephant and Rhino were killed with hardened lead bullets in the 19th century. If you have a 416 or 45 caliber rifle I will send you some of my gas checked beauties and you can report back on penetration VS any jacketed. My 550gr 458 GC bullets cost me about a dime and a minute of my time to cast, seat the GC, size, and lubricate. I'd put a gentlemanly wager that they will penetrate as deeply as those fancy new $4 apiece Noslers.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

I was just kidding. You cast lead boys are touchy!

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

quote:

Thousands of Elephant and Rhino were killed with hardened lead bullets in the 19th century.

Lots were flatened by lead round balls from smoothbore BP clunkers too.....

Hell . . . elephants are being poached everyday with full-auto AK's in 7.62 X 39. 122 gr bullet and I expect a lot of "spray and stay away."

Hey Will,

GOTCHA!!!



Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Since you already have a 470 NE, I don't see the point in a 416. If you're going with a CZ 550 you might just as well get a 505 Gibbs. Definitely send it to AHR for some work before you shoot it. I've only heard good things about them, my rifle comes back this week after getting their CZ #1 upgrade, rebedding/additional recoil lug and NECG rear sight.. They've been a pleasure to deal with.

quote:

416 just seems more versatile, somehow. Thoughts?

I've also given these cartridges some critical thought, since I may soon be in the market, and here's what I've come up with (but only for me.)

I would think that the .404 Jeffery would be more versatile, since an increasing variety of bullet weights are currently being offered in this caliber. (But this observation is likely because I've looked more closely at the .404 instead of the .416.) The .404 is also more economical: Though not exactly a low-cost round, its brass, ammo, and components are generally less expensive, and the chambering appears to require a Magnum action instead of a Large Magnum action, such as used with the .416 Rigby.

Of the .416's, I would probably choose a .416 Remington, although I'm not much a fan of belted cartridges in general.

For me a DGR is specialized and does not need to be versatile at all. I want a cartridge and rifle combination that give me the confidence to shoot elephant at 15 feet. And if I need to take a 300 yard shot on a kudu, one of the trackers can hand me my .375 or 9.3x62 which will be able to make such a shot.

I agree with Dan. Although, my combination would likely be my 550 Gibbs, and a 416 Rigby, or a 375 H&H. Fortunately, I have CZ's in 375, 416Rigby, and 450 Dakota.

Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Rich
DRSS
Knoweldge not shared is knowledge lost...

Unless you plan on going over 470, IMO go with the 416 Rigby

I think you should remember, factory loads are put together with the older and double rifles in mind

But a modern rifle with modern powder and handloads can really make the 416 Rigby dance, boardering on the pain threshold, it's a fair size case with plenty to spare

regards
S&F

does anyone like empire rifles make a 416 weatherby? you have a lot covered with the 470. i really like the ballistics of the 416 weatherby, even though i have yet to shoot one. on paper at least, it does walk away from the 416 remington and rigby. i shoot a 458 lott loaded stiff. making that thing work is like marriage. lots of work. i am kind of a middling to small guy and that recoil dents me. getting better now that i have shot the rifle about 300 times. i can shoot it in a standing position about 7 times wearing a t-shirt before throwing a fit. bench still requires a recoil pad.
i am more about reloading than shooting and you can tell if i am in load development phase by the number of scabs on my nose (both sides) and forehead when I am working up things or checking zero with the lott. shooting that thing off the bench is like being in a knife fight. not a matter of if you get cut, but how bad. i am an attorney in a small town and the judges, at least the ones that are worth a crapola are also gun nuts and don't hold it against me when i come in with cuts and lumps on on my face. good luck!!