It is quite obvious that the number of 375s and up far exceeds the amount of bear shooting and African shooting. I remember reading once that when the 458 first came out that sales far exceeded what was to be expected, that is, based on the number of Americans heading to Africa to shoot Elephant etc.

So what attracts you to owning and shooting big bores?

Mike

I wish I could articulate an intelligent response. It seems to be more of an affliction than a logical attraction.

I suspect it is the same thing that draws me to vehicles with lots of torque/horsepower, blondes with big.....etc, etc. Just kidding, of course, but it is probably something like that.

For me it is more a matter of fun than practicality, although I do plan to create ways to put my big bores to practical use some day. In some ways the owning of a big bore makes it seem that much more likely that I will be one day staring down the barrel of one at a cape buffalo, or some other member of the big 5. Facilitates or enhances the dream, I guess.

Canuck

[ 08-26-2002, 08:54: Message edited by: Canuck ]

Just as Cunuck said Mike, It is the fun of it, the raw power. It is probably the same reason people build up big hot V8's etc.

I think to that having a project on the go breaks up the boredom and monotony of every day life. Waiting for you big bore to be built or saving for your next rifle gives most of us a lot of pleasure. I can't explain it any better than that.

Oh I forgot to add when a big bore hits it is spectacular , and I have only really shot the .416 Rigby to date.

The satisfaction and challange of shooting a rifle that recoils, as well as my Varmint/benchrest rifles.
Being absolutly confident that when I go for a walk in the paddock there is no situation [fingers crossed]I cannot cover and no excuses like ,If only I had a more powerful rifle I could've, would've, should've done this or that.
I still remember shooting a 300 magnum for the first time,[it was one of your rifles so I guess this is all your fault Mike]Seeing the little groups you had shot with it that where similar to my Swift.
So that was it for me,I bought a 300WBY and never looked back soon a 375,460, 378 etc etc followed .

All the best,
Charlie.

Mike

1. Use on, or intended use on game worthy of these calibres. For game such as elephant or lion. If you have no dreams or future plans you will never get there.

2. Leading from no.1 - practice. If you've used the same rifle on hundreds of kangaroos, goats, pigs, some deer etc - then its an extension of your body when you use it in "real anger".

3. Fun - use them for full power if you want spectacular results or as you do (and me) load them down with cheaper bullets and use them on everyday game. Soft on the shoulder and still hard hitting on medium game

4. Effective - wide wound channels

5. Spectacular - those big holes in the end of the barrel are enough to make a grown man swoon. My affliction started when I looked at a .500 Jeffrey M98 and examined its muzzle.

And if your big bore has two barrels side by side. I imagine that is paradise.

[ 08-27-2002, 08:34: Message edited by: NitroExpress.com ]

Mike,

Now don't laugh at my answer, it is the true story of me owning big bore rifles.

I was on the way back from shooting birds, and passed at one of my cousin's for lunch. He asked me where I have been, so I told him I was out shooting birds. He had a few friends with him, and I think a sort of silent message was passed between them. He asked me if I would site in a rifle he had, as it kicks so hard no one wants to shoot it.

I agreed, so in he went and brought a Winchester Model 70 in 375 and 3 boxes of ammo - you might remember the ones with yellow boxes.

The army had a range only 10 minutes drive from us at that time, and we used it to site in our rifles. I took that rifle and went to teh army range.

The sight on that rifle was adjusted so low it was shooting several inches low at 100 yards. I adjusted it, and as I enjoyed shooting it, finished the whole 60 rounds, and kept the empties, despite the fact that I had no rifle in that caliber.

I took the rifle back to him, and told him it is all adjusted now. He asked how many rounds I had to fire to adjust it, and when I told him I fired teh whole lot, neither he nor anyone there believed me.

I had to go and get the empties to show them.

He was so shocked, he told me to keep the bloody thing , and went and gave me several hundred rounds of ammo for it.

We got people to shoot it, and a lot of them would scream their heads off after shooting lying prone in the army range.

Eventually, we ran out of ammo, so we decided to have another, more powerful rifle. I knew the late Steve Vogel of Ruger, and he suggested I get a Ruger # 1 in 458 Winchester magnum, and may be have it rechambered for the 460 Weatherby.

We did just that, and had great fun watching people shoot it. Eventually we went all the way up to the 577 T.Rex, 600 and 700 NE and hopefully one day we will eb able to build the 1.008 Vincent Buffalo Thumper.

Mike 375,
My country's laws won't allow anyone to own the really big guns anytime in the near future, but, if they did, I'd go out and buy myself what I could afford just to satisfy myself that I could shoot something big! I guess this is the kind of simple pleasure that one gets in achieving something like wining a race at school or at university. The really strong guys who can regularly shoot the biggest guns like the .577s, .600s and .700s could be likened to record holders, the Linford Christies to the Joe Average school and college champs.

A simple guy like me has a simple reason. One childhood experience.

When I was eight years old my Dad and Uncle Ralph decided to shoot some bats out of the dusky summer sky out at the farm, "in the country," as a warmup for the approaching dove season.

I would throw a rock to get the bat to dive, and they would blast it out of the sky with Dad's Ted Williams 12 guage.

As the dusk turned into full moonlight, an atavistic werewolf urge arose in me. I pleaded, begged, whined until they let me shoot it to shut me up. Dad had to catch me and the shotgun when I touched one off. I would have hit the dirt if he hadn't caught me.

This caused a big grin on my eight-year-old face and a monster was born that night.

Now when I see the full moon, I howl like a wolf and rub my right shoulder with my left hand, while my trigger finger goes into spasms.

Maybe I do need a 585 Nyati after all.

For me, two of my basic reasons would at first seem to be wrong.

Relaxation and accuracy.

I have probably had about as many big bores as I have had bench style rifles in 270 through to 300 Mag and also super accurate spoting style rifles with Jewell triggers etc.

With small fast bores I am always stressed about ballistic coefficients and will the bullets expand etc. and etc.

The big bore to me is a bit like driving a low performance big V8 around.

With accuracy, it seems to be easier to get a big bore shooting to your expectations. Also the big blunt bullets cut big holes and 1.5" group from a 458 looks a lot nicer than .75" from a 22/250.

I think what also helps with accuracy is that you are not looking for the last foot per second and this in turn allows for a much wider set of reloading parameters. As an example, a powder like 2208 (Varget) won't even get a run in a 270 with 130s because before you start you know you will be down about 150 f/s.

Lastly, big slow bullets for me seem to be a slow motion thing. Almost like watching a steam engine run or a big slow revving single piston diesel marine engine put put putting away

Mike

for the look, of horror and confusion from other at the range, for showing up with something way too big and far too obscure to to be classified as "all around" and "good ol'"

[ 08-27-2002, 07:59: Message edited by: Curtis_Lemay ]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike375:
Hi Mike,
It was a young fellows dreams of African adventures along with some great articles about big and very very powerful rifles. Building and owning big bores became what a boater would call footitis. Well if that's what that is then what would a -----be. They just became more fun and everyone enjoyed rocking back and seeing the damage that was created. Then it was getting it all under control trying to create something of your own plus the African adventure where it all started.

470 Mbogo

There is also a certain sound that I love to hear wehn a big bore connect with the target "WHUMP" Like wacking a wooden bench with a large black pudding

In my case it must be either a defect in my DNA, or I recieved way too much RF radiation to the skull in the military. Maybe a combination of the two? Of course seeing the terrified looks at deer camp when I haul one out and innocently ask, "Anyone want to shoot it?" is a nice side benifit.

I like big old guns, like I like big old cars. Even at slow speed they can do a lot of damage.

Although I do not own a big bore now, but the passion is there.

To me they are impressive. They relate to the past which will not come back. The word Nitro Express has some special effect and charm in it.

My imagination takes me into the African bush or the Indian jungle. Where a man in khaki cloths is following the spoor of a big tusker or a wounded buffalo or a man eater tiger.

He has in his hands a double rifle. Two cigar sized cartridges are protruding from the fingers of his left hand (assuming he is right handed ).

He has such a confidence in his weapon, that it will stop the charge of the beast with enough stopping power and its heavy bullets will crush through the mighty bones and tough muscles of the largest and most dangerous of the world's game animals.

Saad

When you live in an area where the 30-30 lever gun is king, a 270 is about the norm and those fellers shooting an 06 or a 7mm mag are shooting really big guns , it is just plain ol fun to pull out something truely big just for the expressions on their face That and aparently I need to overcompensate for a small penis (from an anti hunting associate). I just really like making the big boys go boom and trying to find my recoil limit. And I guess the last reason is the desire to hunt the really big and nasties someday, I want to be proficient with a propper DGR before that day comes. gabe

For me it the same thing as big breast. Just more attractive! What can I say Its the truth!

As a member of Green Peace, my 340WM,404 Jefferies,45/120 Sharps & 500 Nitro are the world's only guardians against a sneak attack by sabre-toothed field mice!!!!!

The second reason is chiropractic, I never suffer from stiff joints so I save heaps in medical bills.

NAAAA!!!! my wife didn't buy any of these excuses either. Guess I'm just another gun nut.

Do all of you blokes get strange looks when you go to your local gun shops and ask "have you had any 458's (or bigger)come in since last time I was in?

Or are they big bore educated (or inflicted) as well.

Nitro,

Yes I get strange looks at the local shop. They are getting used to me by now. When I ask if they have anything "good", they say naw, nothing you can stick your thumb down the bore on.

When I told them I used my 338 Wm for whitetails, and my 375 for elk, but wanted a 416 Rigby they couldn't believe it. Of course I was also looking for a 10 ga browning BPS for doves.

Much like Daggarons excuse, mine started at a very young age. I was fortunate to grow up in a hunting family. Every year my family would pack up for opening week and head out. From my grandfather to cousins I only seen during hunting season. It usually was 15-20 people. Anyway along with my most memerable times, was my first encounter with a large cal., a 375 H&H on a #1. I had seen everyones reaction when my father would take it out of the case, and the laughs that followed a persons "DAMM that hurt!" after they fired it. When I was about 12 I finally got up the nerve to ask to fire it the day before opening when everyone would sight in. My uncle (retired State trooper) just laughed, but my dad just stared at me. Then said "ok". I had been shooting since I was 6 (First .22), and had fired up to an 06, and several 20 ga shotguns.
Anyway he handed me a single round (all of our ammo was handloads), and the rifle. Explained the operation, and told me to go ahead and load her up and fire when I was ready. The sound that the ctg made as it fell into the chamber is a sound I will always love. All of you double owners know what I am talking about. I fired at a paper plate 100 yards downrange with iron sighs, missed the plate by a few inches and hit a basketball sized rock in the bank behind it. The rock blew into a million peices. I was so amazed at the power that I didnt relize my shoulder was in a great deal of pain. I held back the tears and have never been the same since. To this day the 375H&H is my favorite. Anyway, its my dads fault.
THANKS DAD!

It just kinda happened Sort of a long story, but here are the pertinant points. I grew up in a non hunting family in California, but we did have an air rifle, and a 22, and I'd shoot the air gun quite often and on a few occasions I went to the range with my dad. I also read G&A, back when it was a decent mag. I never had an interest in hunting.

When I got married, we went to Alaska for our honeymoon. I fell in love with the state, and it was our goal to move here, though it took 3 years. In the mene time, I purchased a .308 ruger ultralight, and some mil surp mausers in 6.5X55 and 8X57. I thought the .308 kicked like crazy, and couldn't imagine shooting anything bigger. Also from my gun mag reading, I was convinced the .308 was all I needed, and perhaps it is for what I hunt.

Since we moved up here, shooting has become a serious hobby for me. I'm fortunate to have a state run range in town, and can shoot during lunch W-F. So, since I got into shooting more, and reloading, the hobby started to progress, especially with the bad influence of this crowd I built a 35 whelen ackley, as the .308 just didn't give me the same confidence it did when I was 2000 miles away in CA. I found out that 250 gr bullets @ 2700 fps really weren't that bad.

There was also a pawn shop that had a 458 Lott in the rack that I eyed for ~1 year, and got for a 1/2 decent price. I had a curiosity about the big bores, and since no one I new shot one, I figured I'd just have to buy one and find out for myself. I rationalized that I could download it to 45-70 levels. So what did I do when I started working up loads for it? I got a box of 500 gr Hornadies, and used max 458 win mag loads as starters, and worked up. It shot the 500's best w/ 87 gr @ 2280 fps from the 21 1/2" ported barrel. The recoil was stiff, but not intolerable. I limited full power sessions to 10 shots, and found that there was just something reasuring about touching off a brute of a rifle, I always had a big grin on my face, and with the Past mag shoulder pad, have never been hurt.

I didn't care for the light contour of the lotts barrel, and the stock was crappy, even after signifigant repairs. I'd paid too much to just use the action, so I sold the enfield lott to raise some funds. A buddy had me off on a tangent to build a 50 cal rifle using a lenthened 50 action express, and in the search for a barrel blank, one of my fellow Alaskans offered me a darn near free 50 cal douglas blank he'd planned on using to make a 500 Jeffrey. I picked up the barrel, and he mentioned he had some 500 Jeffrey brass. I made the mistake of doing some research on the 500 Jeffrey, figured I couldn't pass up the deal on the brass. I e-mailed another buddy who'd offered a P-14 action for a great deal, and next thing I new, the works were off to John Ricks. John's been fitting the work in between other projects, as he offered me a deal I couldn't refuse. I'd considered cancelling the project for various reasons in the beginning, but It looks like I'll have the big brute in the near future.

Ultimately it comes down to what interests me. I just don't get excited about the various deer rifle rounds, .270-300 they really all seem the same to me. I don't get real excited about extreme accuracy br guns. I guess I like things a bit different. The big bore rifles get me excited enough to scheme ways of saving and selling the funds to bring them to fruition. The same goes for small esoteric rounds in the contender pistol. Also with my relatively short shooting sessions during lunchtime, I'm looking for maximum enjoyment in minimum time. If I only get to cap a few off while anal-izing loads, it can be frustrating. You only have to cap a few off in a big bore to get your fill.

I do it because it gives me an excuse to put on my big hat, stomp into my cowboy boots, lite up a good Fuentes cigar and make my wife call me "Elmer"...makes me feel good!

I find the recoil of a big bore equivalent to a neck and upper back massage.

Well, let's just say I have this nut that never dropped and if I shoot a big bore long enough, well, I might just eventually be normal!

I kind of also figured if I fire a big bore enough, it will damage my brain just enough so I can understand the rest of the chowderheads I sometimes hunt with! LOL

Some men get in relationships (with the "wrong type" of female) - after several "from hell" I decided that self abuse with a large caliber rifle was : 1) lots cheaper 2) I get to choose when the pain will begin 3) I have some control over when the pain will end 4)lots cheaper 5) useful in other ways such as hunting and taking ones mind off of a shit day at work 6) a fun way to meet interesting people with similar afflictions 7)neat way to learn to focus your mind on an object and project to the target 8) helpful in keeping 900 lb. Hoover vacuum cleaners from wrecking your day 9) just plain fun!! KMule

One reason I enjoy shooting larger caliber guns is that I am learning a new skill. I am more of a shooter than a hunter, and I don't take that as an insult but a matter of fact.* I like hunting a lot, but I would still shoot if I didn't hunt.

The first day I shot half a box of ammo through my new 30-06, I came home black and blue. Now I shoot 50 rounds and I wish I had the time to go out tomorrow and do the same thing. My shotgun with 3" slugs whacks me harder than my new 375, but I shoot 10 or 15 rounds before my shoulder tells me to stop. I'm not planning the purchase actively, but I believe there will be a 458 Lott or 460 G&A in my gun safe before much longer. I'm not by any means good at shooting hard recoiling rifles, but I can see a definite improvement trend.

What is the skill of tolerating excessive recoil good for? Not a lot, but it's no less valuable than being able to walk on my hands or play Hacky Sack. I never did enjoy trying to kick a Hacky Sack, but I enjoy the hell out of shooting.

H. C.

*I have noticed the phrase "more a shooter than a hunter" is used as a criticism, particularly by Europeans. Is this just my imagination, or is it considered a bad thing to be a shooter first and a hunter second?

The writings of Uncle Elmer (Keith, that is!!)

Oh and I almost forgot, those damn ferocious South Eastern Ohio elephants never personally seen one but heard many a tale about them!!!!

Deguello, could you recomend a Keith book, I am just about through with Death in the Long Grass and am looking for something new to read?

Gabe

My Mother tells me, when I was 3 years old I started to carry a stack of National Geographics around and would tell everyone, who would listen, the names of the animals. At least those that she had read to me and given me names. Thus the beginning of my love affair with Africa and wanting to get to know about guns. I remember the first American Sportsman when Robert Stack shot an elephant with ears our stretched and a huge lion and I believe a Baffalo all with a bigger than life 458 Win Mag. I also remember alot of it came from reading and meeting Elmer Keith, in Salmon, Idaho one Sunday morning in the general store, when we were trout fishing.

My desires in this area continued to grow as my interests in guns and shooting/hunting continued to grow and as I hunted more and with bigger calibers and bullets, like PC, I began to love the sounds mostly that ever satisfying THWHUMP. As well as knowing I delivered that big bullet right where I wanted it. Pride in being able to shoot a big rifle correctly and accurately (mastering the mental discipline) is a source of pride also. I love big bores just as I do 22 rimfires for what they are. The more I shoot a 223 the more I like and respect it. It is all relative.

Last spring my wife and I stopped in Sturgis,SD at the Dakota factory and I shot a 450 Dakota and am getting an incredible itch for one of them or a 470 Mbogo now. As the 470 NE is my "pet" right now I will get to the over 50 stuff. My next double will be a 500 X 3" as I truly respect that cartridge. And so it goes.....

Good Hunting, "Z"

The more bang, the more fun ...

Also picking up cases is easier.

I would rather buy a bigger gun, than hot load a smaller one.

Don�t believe all ;-)

Hermann

The FUN factor.

1. Elmer Keith
2. Fun
3. The ever present danger of dinosaurs making a comeback. Oh sure, you laugh now, but when those raptors start eating their way through your town, you'll be sorry you only have some girly man 338 to try and protect yourself. - Dan

When I was little I thought dads 30-30 was big. When I turned 13 dad got me a 20ga. shotgun, but by the time hunting season rolled around I saved up the money to get my own 12ga. pump gun. A year later I saved enough to get the then new 835 UltiMag 3.5". From there I just went bigger. Even my 338WM gets attention as too big of a gun, as people around here call an -06 a cannon. Two months ago in the gun shop a small crowd had gathered around a guy bragging about his big 375 H&H and how it was the biggest thing around. Just them the owner saw me and spoke up "you got a big gun don't ya?" When I answered back with 416 Taylor the gentelman was quick to say that his still had more power because it fired 300 grain pills. He was too full of himself to proove wrong so I let it go at that. I'ts fun to be 6'2" and 160 lbs. and shoot the stuff that makes my 220lb. friend balk.

Because they are there...

Because if a little is fun a lot is more fun...

Because, because, because........

Hi, my name is Ron, and I have a problem........

NB hunter I would have quitely reminded him in front of the people he was bignoting himself infront of that your .416 shot a 400 grainer at practically the same speed.

I had a similar thing in my gunshop recently when a bloke was looking at one of my .585 rounds I was showing my dealer, he proceeded to tell me that he had a .500 Nitro which was "pretty well the most powerful thing you could get" (his words). I left it at that as well as I could not be bothered. But in hindsight I should have given him a few ballistics figures.

Because big bears and little guns don't play together very well!!

Because once when looking at some muzzle loaders in a local gunshop the saleman told me I need a minimum of 45 caliber with a 50 caliber being a great deal better for deer hunting. Since I am ignorant of guns I went out and bought a 505 Gibbs. Imagine my surprise when I took this rifle to the local range and informed all who enqured (and that was almost everyone) that this was my new deer rifle. The ridicule was not stop. Anyway, I have never looked back. I do all my hunting with BIG BORES. I guess it is a pride thing. I simply cannot admit I made a mistake all those years ago.

This could also be somekind of mental illness. I don't know.

Buffalo, hippo, elephant and such causes me to own a big bore. I guess the looks at the range and the "can I shoot it" gives a certain amount of joy. Otherwise they just blow those pumkins up better than a 30.06.

BigB